Tales of Hangar Construction

[Morne]

Right now I rent a t-hangar. I realize that this is far less expensive than owning (or building) a box hangar but for various reasons the idea keeps rattling around in my head.

I am contemplating a 50x50 box hangar. Nothing hugely fancy and probably only have electric run to it. Not sure if I'll heat it or not but certainly no air conditioning. I could care less what it looks like, so long as it meets code, one of those old Quonset Hut type curved metal roofs is fine by me!

Obviously I want a concrete pad (with a floor drain) and whatever apron I might need to get to the taxiway.

What I am wondering is just how expensive this project really will be? Input from folks who have recently built a hangar will be vastly appreciated. I have done plenty of googling on the matter already.

And yes, I know the first item is to get a land lease from the airport. That's not a problem.

 

[EdFred]

$30/sq ft I think is what the guys here spent.

 

[weilke]

A couple of months ago, the 'roofing and siding' flyer from the local Menards home improvement store contained a 48x48ft box hangar for $25,749. Looked like it was a wooden truss structure. Of course, you have to pay someone to erect the thing and you have the cost of pouring a floor.

What terms does the airport offer for the land lease ? Spoke to someone who had his commercial hangar taken by the airport sponsor when the land-lease was up for the next 10 year renewal. No fun.

 

[Morne]

What terms does the airport offer for the land lease ? Spoke to someone who had his commercial hangar taken by the airport sponsor when the land-lease was up for the next 10 year renewal. No fun.

The land lease is for 30 years with two 5 year auto-renewal options. I think the rate is about 32 cents per square foot, but that includes the apron. So even a 50x50' box hangar will probably need a 40x50' apron (another 2000 square feet). The minimum rent is $1500 a year regardless, so building less than 4700 square feet (including the apron) is just silly.

 

[Badger]

what state/climate?
If you will own this for many years, you might consider $$ insulating to control condensation.

 

[Alexb2000]

The real issue is what is the availability and rent cost on one?

I wouldn't build a hangar unless the above was an issue.

 

[Morne]

what state/climate?
If you will own this for many years, you might consider $$ insulating to control condensation.

Northeast Ohio. Yesterday it was 66 F, today it is snowing with a high of 26 F. A whole year's worth of weather in 24 hours.

Alex, the availability of larger hangar spaces is nil. My only choice at this airport is a 40' tee-hangar (what I rent today). There is no "community hangar" space available. You want bigger you gotta build.

Even the two close neighboring airports have nothing else bigger available. There are lots of hangars, just none for rent or sale.

 

[Alexb2000]

Northeast Ohio. Yesterday it was 66 F, today it is snowing with a high of 26 F. A whole year's worth of weather in 24 hours.

Alex, the availability of larger hangar spaces is nil. My only choice at this airport is a 40' tee-hangar (what I rent today). There is no "community hangar" space available. You want bigger you gotta build.

Even the two close neighboring airports have nothing else bigger available. There are lots of hangars, just none for rent or sale.

Ok, sounds like building makes sense and you'd easily be able to sell it later.

50X50 without land expense, insulated but unheated, I figure about $35 a foot. I would heat mine up where you are though. So maybe another $15-20K for radiant. Call it $100k ballpark.

 

[Morne]

A couple of months ago, the 'roofing and siding' flyer from the local Menards home improvement store contained a 48x48ft box hangar for $25,749. Looked like it was a wooden truss structure. Of course, you have to pay someone to erect the thing and you have the cost of pouring a floor.

I saw this with some basic kit prices for polebarns (would that work?):

http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pole-barn-prices.php

That 40x84x16' kit for $16,199 would work. Still need it assembled, plus the door(s), site prep and concrete work.

 

[weilke]

I saw this with some basic kit prices for polebarns (would that work?):

http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pole-barn-prices.php

That 40x84x16' kit for $16,199 would work. Still need it assembled, plus the door(s), site prep and concrete work.

A good share of the price of a hangar is the door. The offer from Menards came with a manual bifold provided by the company. Of course, if you build one yourself, you can get fancy with a lift-strap Schweiss or a hydraulic single-fold. When looking at those standard pole-barn kits, make sure they
- are engineered with that large of a door opening on the side you need it
- have a strong enough frame to support the loads imposed by a bifold.
Your standard pole-barn kit may not do either.

There seems to be a lot of 'while we are here' disease when it comes to building hangars:
- Lets just add 5 ft in each direction.
- I want to 'save' on insurance and get all steel construction
- Might as well insulate the thing.
- I need that remote controlled electrical door
- We really should have a bathroom with a pump-tank.
- An office at the airport would come in handy
- I really like that epoxy covered floor in bobs hangar
- Oooh, we need T5 lights good enough to run a paintshop
- lets just heat the thing, and the apron to melt the snow...

So you start out with a 48x48 with:
- 35k for the building with bifold
- 7.7k for the poured slab
- 8k for the erectors
- 1k for some basic lighting


But after all the 'while we are here' disease items noted above are included, you are looking at a 60x60 corporate hangar with all the goodies for $150k

 

[N801BH]

A good share of the price of a hangar is the door. The offer from Menards came with a manual bifold provided by the company. Of course, if you build one yourself, you can get fancy with a lift-strap Schweiss or a hydraulic single-fold. When looking at those standard pole-barn kits, make sure they
- are engineered with that large of a door opening on the side you need it
- have a strong enough frame to support the loads imposed by a bifold.
Your standard pole-barn kit may not do either.

There seems to be a lot of 'while we are here' disease when it comes to building hangars:
- Lets just add 5 ft in each direction.
- I want to 'save' on insurance and get all steel construction
- Might as well insulate the thing.
- I need that remote controlled electrical door
- We really should have a bathroom with a pump-tank.
- An office at the airport would come in handy
- I really like that epoxy covered floor in bobs hangar
- Oooh, we need T5 lights good enough to run a paintshop
- lets just heat the thing, and the apron to melt the snow...

So you start out with a 48x48 with:
- 35k for the building with bifold
- 7.7k for the poured slab
- 8k for the erectors
- 1k for some basic lighting


But after all the 'while we are here' disease items noted above are included, you are looking at a 60x60 corporate hangar with all the goodies for $150k

 

[GeorgeC]

dumb question

Forgive the drift and my ignorance... can hangar-style construction techniques and materials be scaled down, or are they prefabricated/modular?

The slab in my garage is cracked, small amounts of water seep through the foundation when it rains (needs a french drain or some way to seal the existing foundation), stucco needs painting and waterproofing... then insulation, drywall, and epoxy coating on the floor.

Rather than throw good money after bad (already replaced inop garage doors, replaced rotted framing, replaced gutters and coping), would it be better to just nuke and pave and build a 25x25 hangar-style structure? Or would this be unsuitable for some other reason?

 

[weilke]

Re: dumb question

Rather than throw good money after bad (already replaced inop garage doors, replaced rotted framing, replaced gutters and coping), would it be better to just nuke and pave and build a 25x25 hangar-style structure? Or would this be unsuitable for some other reason?

Why would you want to go to that expense ? You can get a freestanding prefab garage for very little money. Post+beam on a poured concrete floor with whatever number of bays you need.

 

[timwinters]

I saw this with some basic kit prices for polebarns (would that work?):

http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pole-barn-prices.php

That 40x84x16' kit for $16,199 would work. Still need it assembled, plus the door(s), site prep and concrete work.

One slight problem.

Wings don't fit very well 'twixt poles that are 8' to 10' O.C.

i.e. standard pole barn kits aren't designed for 40'+ openings.

 

[Alexb2000]

A good share of the price of a hangar is the door. The offer from Menards came with a manual bifold provided by the company. Of course, if you build one yourself, you can get fancy with a lift-strap Schweiss or a hydraulic single-fold. When looking at those standard pole-barn kits, make sure they
- are engineered with that large of a door opening on the side you need it
- have a strong enough frame to support the loads imposed by a bifold.
Your standard pole-barn kit may not do either.

There seems to be a lot of 'while we are here' disease when it comes to building hangars:
- Lets just add 5 ft in each direction.
- I want to 'save' on insurance and get all steel construction
- Might as well insulate the thing.
- I need that remote controlled electrical door
- We really should have a bathroom with a pump-tank.
- An office at the airport would come in handy
- I really like that epoxy covered floor in bobs hangar
- Oooh, we need T5 lights good enough to run a paintshop
- lets just heat the thing, and the apron to melt the snow...

So you start out with a 48x48 with:
- 35k for the building with bifold
- 7.7k for the poured slab
- 8k for the erectors
- 1k for some basic lighting


But after all the 'while we are here' disease items noted above are included, you are looking at a 60x60 corporate hangar with all the goodies for $150k

OK. What are you guys paying for concrete up there?????

I pay: 50X50 with 5" field perimeter beam, 12" wide by 18" deep, plus a cross beam same dimension, rebar on 18's. I believe I get it done as cheap as possible with $90 concrete at $4.50 a ft. Apron or any 4" flatwork at $3.50

That still comes up to: Building: 2500X $4.50=$11,250 + Apron 2,000 X $3.50 = $7,000 or $18,250 I just don't see $7.7K for concrete.

 

[N801BH]

OK. What are you guys paying for concrete up there?????

I pay: 50X50 with 5" field perimeter beam, 12" wide by 18" deep, plus a cross beam same dimension, rebar on 18's. I believe I get it done as cheap as possible with $90 concrete at $4.50 a ft. Apron or any 4" flatwork at $3.50

That still comes up to: Building: 2500X $4.50=$11,250 + Apron 2,000 X $3.50 = $7,000 or $18,250 I just don't see $7.7K for concrete.

Concrete is running 150 a yard for a 5 bag mix... Fiber adds 10 bucks and there is a 3 yard minimum... Short loads are 250 extra..

 

[Alexb2000]

Concrete is running 150 a yard for a 5 bag mix... Fiber adds 10 bucks and there is a 3 yard minimum... Short loads are 250 extra..

Wow. I need to come up there and open a concrete plant.

 

[N801BH]

Wow. I need to come up there and open a concrete plant.

There were three batch plants here a few years ago.. Then some scandanavia company came in and bought them all.. Mud went from 85 to 150... No competition leads to getting *ucked...

 

[weilke]

That still comes up to: Building: 2500X $4.50=$11,250 + Apron 2,000 X $3.50 = $7,000 or $18,250 I just don't see $7.7K for concrete.

That was just a guess for a 48x48 pad, no apron.

My point was not on how much exactly it is going to cost to build a hangar, I wanted to illustrate the 'mission creep' that seems to take hold in many hangar projects. If you have a 42ft T-hangar today, why do you need a 65x65ft air-conditioned Taj-Majal tomorrow ?

 

[texasag93]

The land lease is for 30 years with two 5 year auto-renewal options. I think the rate is about 32 cents per square foot, but that includes the apron. So even a 50x50' box hangar will probably need a 40x50' apron (another 2000 square feet). The minimum rent is $1500 a year regardless, so building less than 4700 square feet (including the apron) is just silly.

$1500 a year of $1500 a month???

 

[weilke]

$1500 a year of $1500 a month???

Those ground leases are typically on an annual basis.

With 30 years and 2 renewals it makes sense to build. Some places only do 20 years without automatic renewals, basically they can exercise an option to steal your hangar at that point.

 

[bigring]

I've built several hangars, all on city owned land with a sq. ft. land lease. Questions I would want answered:

* Is an engineering report required?
* Is the dirt good or will dirt need to be replaced?
* Are there escalation clauses in the lease language for rent?
* Who pays the property taxes?
* Who pays the insurance on the finished building?
* Who provides insurance during construction?
* Am I allowed to sublease?
* Are there provisions for lease extensions? Options or guaranteed?
* What is the process for selling your hangar? Is the lease transferable? Is there a fee? Can the lease clock be reset upon transfer?
* Who is responsible for connecting the hangar slab to the existing ramp area?
* What construction requirements are in place?
* Who is my contact during construction, the city or the airport commission?
* Are there any fire suppression system requirements?

Around here a 50 x 50 hangar built to airport specs would cost around $175,000 all-in if you didn't built in an office or do anything fancy and if you didn't have to bring in clay under the slab.

 

[N801BH]

........Around here a 50 x 50 hangar built to airport specs would cost around $175,000 all-in if you didn't built in an office or do anything fancy and if you didn't have to bring in clay under the slab.

WOW........

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

It's getting close to a year on this garage project (Hired out the demolition, concrete and shingles): https://picasaweb.google.com/113074946255891896082/Garage#

 

[EdFred]

One slight problem.

Wings don't fit very well 'twixt poles that are 8' to 10' O.C.

i.e. standard pole barn kits aren't designed for 40'+ openings.

True, but you could build a truss to span the 40' opening. Or order a joist from Vulcraft.

 

[Alexb2000]

True, but you could build a truss to span the 40' opening. Or order a joist from Vulcraft.

I know you're trying to find a cheap solution. Let me suggest that Vulcraft isn't the answer if the word cheap is involved. Most hangar fabrication companies shear plate, weld up tapered I-beams to build the mainframes, and then connect it all with light gauge "S"'s. that's been proven to be about the cheapest way to build a clear span hangar of the size in question. Any type of upward opening door is also going to require some serious strength and triangulation in the end wall. This just isn't the job for wood IMO.

This is a super competitive market, not a lot to be gained by cutting corners.

 

[Clark1961]

I know you're trying to find a cheap solution. Let me suggest that Vulcraft isn't the answer if the word cheap is involved. Most hangar fabrication companies shear plate, weld up tapered I-beams to build the mainframes, and then connect it all with light gauge "S"'s. that's been proven to be about the cheapest way to build a clear span hangar of the size in question. Any type of upward opening door is also going to require some serious strength and triangulation in the end wall. This just isn't the job for wood IMO.

This is a super competitive market, not a lot to be gained by cutting corners.

"I" section? Prolly not. Wide flange section prolly.

Lots of wood frame hangars around. May have to get off the beaten path to see them. Steel is relatively cheap. Just put up two 40 x 40 buildings and materials for each were less than 20K.

 

[EdFred]

I know you're trying to find a cheap solution. Let me suggest that Vulcraft isn't the answer if the word cheap is involved. Most hangar fabrication companies shear plate, weld up tapered I-beams to build the mainframes, and then connect it all with light gauge "S"'s. that's been proven to be about the cheapest way to build a clear span hangar of the size in question. Any type of upward opening door is also going to require some serious strength and triangulation in the end wall. This just isn't the job for wood IMO.

This is a super competitive market, not a lot to be gained by cutting corners.

I used to be in structural steel. We always used W shapes, not S shapes for our lintels. Probably looking at a W27 or W30 for a 40 foot span. But then you need to support it.

 

[Alexb2000]

"I" section? Prolly not. Wide flange section prolly.

Lots of wood frame hangars around. May have to get off the beaten path to see them. Steel is relatively cheap. Just put up two 40 x 40 buildings and materials for each were less than 20K.

I'm talking about a fabricated tapered beam, not I-Beam or any extrusion.

My 50X50 packages w/ 20' walls are about $25K as a bypass building.

Ed-

I am talking about light gauge "S"'s as perlins. If your lentil is what we call a header down here then my question would be how to you triangulate, and what structure do you use to attach the door frame?

We fabricate a 8" square tubing (heavy wall) as the header for the above reasons, although you could do it with other things the need to attach something structural to all four sides makes the square efficient.

 

[EdFred]

I'm talking about a fabricated tapered beam, not I-Beam or any extrusion.

My 50X50 packages w/ 20' walls are about $25K as a bypass building.

Ed-

I am talking about light gauge "S"'s as perlins. If your lentil is what we call a header down here then my question would be how to you triangulate, and what structure do you use to attach the door frame?

We fabricate a 8" square tubing (heavy wall) as the header for the above reasons, although you could do it with other things the need to attach something structural to all four sides makes the square efficient.

You mean an actual shape of an S. Ah, in structural there is an S shape that has tapered flanges. Usually used in making light duty crane rails.

Probably go with an W8x31 for a column in the corners, anchored into the footing. yeah, a lintel is a header.

 

[Alexb2000]

You mean an actual shape of an S. Ah, in structural there is an S shape that has tapered flanges. Usually used in making light duty crane rails.

Probably go with an W8x31 for a column in the corners, anchored into the footing. yeah, a lintel is a header.

Construction terms are so funny because of all the idioms and terminology differences by area. If you say lentil here they think you are a mason.

Now that you say it I remember there is a structural S beam, I've just never worked with it.

W8X31 is used here a lot for just the purpose you said.

 

[weilke]

One way to double the price for a hangar is to use AIP funds for it

 

[EdFred]

Construction terms are so funny because of all the idioms and terminology differences by area. If you say lentil here they think you are a mason.

Now that you say it I remember there is a structural S beam, I've just never worked with it.

W8X31 is used here a lot for just the purpose you said.

I call em headers when using wood, but when I was in steel, all the drawings that had beams over doors were still labeled a lintel. Of course with what we were doing we didn't see much in the way of light gauge steel construction. Everything was covered with block and brick, so it was then always called a lintel. If there was any internal light gauge steel that was handled by other subcontractors.

 

[Alexb2000]

I call em headers when using wood, but when I was in steel, all the drawings that had beams over doors were still labeled a lintel. Of course with what we were doing we didn't see much in the way of light gauge steel construction. Everything was covered with block and brick, so it was then always called a lintel. If there was any internal light gauge steel that was handled by other subcontractors.

I don't know what you see there, but here hangar construction is not being done by the sharpest tools in the drawer. Certainly not by a real structural steel outfit. I still laugh when some of these guys run when you light a torch.

 

[ChrisK]

You know, Wayne Dalton is in our back yard here and they build all kinds of custom door solutions. Wonder if you can save some coin by having the door made by them and shipped up from Mt. Hope.

 

[EdFred]

I don't know what you see there, but here hangar construction is not being done by the sharpest tools in the drawer. Certainly not by a real structural steel outfit. I still laugh when some of these guys run when you light a torch.

Oh, we never did hangars, I was talking about regular construction. I've seen a few where the went with a C-shape as the header. A lot are just wood with a giant lam beam.

 

[timwinters]

Kinda lost track of this thread...

True, but you could build a truss to span the 40' opening. Or order a joist from Vulcraft.

As has been pointed out, it's not quite that simple. Take a look at the beams above the power door on a pre-fab hangar the next time you're in one. You'll see a significant amount of lateral bracing to a row or two of beefed up purlins or to the next beam.

Construction terms are so funny because of all the idioms and terminology differences by area. If you say lentil here they think you are a mason.

Or a legume...

...I've heard of bio-fuel but bio-buildings are a new concept to me. :wink2:

I am talking about light gauge "S"'s as perlins.

Speaking of "idiom and terminology differences by area". I've never heard "Z purlins" referred to as "S purlins".

 

[Alexb2000]

Speaking of "idiom and terminology differences by area". I've never heard "Z purlins" referred to as "S purlins".

Don't you mean a Zed purlin? HA. Of course they are Z purlins we just haven't been able to call them that due to the language barrier in our area. Z and C just sounded too close, so we started calling them S's and everyone still knows what were talking about.

 

[Morne]

I wonder if it is normal for the hangar to cost more than the plane? I remember when I got my gunsafe, it cost more than any individual gun I stored in it.

 

[Alexb2000]

I wonder if it is normal for the hangar to cost more than the plane? I remember when I got my gunsafe, it cost more than any individual gun I stored in it.

From everything you said a hangar sounds like a much better investment than a plane. You could also build one large enough for two and rent one space out. I expect very quickly you'll have more money in almost any plane vs. a hangar.