Taking Pax if asked.

[evapilotaz]

Here is a Hypothetical question.

What if someone that could be a friend, relative, co worker or someone in passing finds out your a Pilot and they asked "Hey lets go flying"

Do you take them flying no questions asked?
Do you take them flying on your Dime?
Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?
Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

 

[poadeleted20]

Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Depends on how well I know them.

Do you take them flying on your Dime?

Yes.

Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?

Normally no -- too easy to fall afoul of 61.113.

Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

Absolutely, and several other questions, unless I know them pretty well.

Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

Depends on who they are and how well I know them. First one would probably be "What you got in mind?" and go from there.

 

[evapilotaz]

My answers

Here is a Hypothetical question.

What if someone that could be a friend, relative, co worker or someone in passing finds out your a Pilot and they asked "Hey lets go flying"

Do you take them flying no questions asked?

I would ask them where do they want to fly, why they have an interest in flying, and have they been in small airplanes before.
I would ask if they have a fear of heights and get motion sickness
I would mentioned its not like airline flying. You actually feel a lot of different sensation.

Also I would evaluate the mental condition as the best I could.


Do you take them flying on your Dime?

I would pay for the flight if I made the offer. The next flight if they are interested we split the cost.

Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?

Yes we share the cost if they asked to go flying. Unless it was from the goodness of my heart I will cover all cost.

Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

I would ask this question.


Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

 

[kgruber]

What does she look like?

 

[poadeleted20]

Yes we share the cost if they asked to go flying.

Congratulations -- you just violated 14 CFR 61.113 because you accepted the passenger's share of the expenses without having a common purpose for the flight.

 

[evapilotaz]

Congratulations -- you just violated 14 CFR 61.113 because you accepted the passenger's share of the expenses without having a common purpose for the flight.

Thanks for the Congrats. We would have a common purpose because I would want to go flying anyway with or without a PAX.

Dang I should have posted this anonymously.

 

[airguy]

Congratulations -- you just violated 14 CFR 61.113 because you accepted the passenger's share of the expenses without having a common purpose for the flight.

Nearly everyone I know has heard me say at one time or another "I'm always looking for an excuse just to go flying" and you can bet I'll call them as a witness at the trial. Enjoyment of the activity constitutes common purpose.

 

[evapilotaz]

Airguy you got that right. I wouldn't pass down an opportunity to go flying with or without a Pax.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

What if someone that could be a friend, relative, co worker or someone in passing finds out your a Pilot and they asked "Hey lets go flying"

Dude!

Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Probably a couple questions - like - have you ever actually seen my airplane?
Done this before ? (Then I have a better idea what to tell them)

Do you take them flying on your Dime?

Yes, easier that way, but for me it's more like my nickel.

Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"
fo-sho

Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

Do you want to drive?

Explain that things will be bumpy, lots of rocking and rolling near the ground, you will lean into the turns but it will feel like being on a bike.
Read the plaque on the panal with the passenger warning, etc.

 

[evapilotaz]

What does she look like?

A Hooter Girl.

 

[MAKG1]

A Hooter Girl.

In that case, only in moderate chop.

 

[Sac Arrow]

>Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Without bringing granny's undies in to the mix, I generally don't have a problem taking friends and coworkers with me as long as I don't have to go out of my way to accommodate them. Just how far I'll go out of my way to accommodate them depends on how hot they are.

>Do you take them flying on your Dime?

Sure. Do it all the time.

>Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?

I haven't, that isn't to say I wouldn't. Nor would I refuse an unrelated meal or cash donation outside of the context of the flight.

>Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

Sure. And I'll go over some procedural issues as well.

>Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

Let's see....

Hot Asian Chick: So, what are you doing later on tonight?

Islamic Fundamentalist: Would it put you out if our route didn't take us directly over the Golden Gate bridge or the State Capitol building?

Little boy holding a small dog: Every seen a grown man naked?

Old guy with horn rimmed glasses carrying a clipboard: You aren't from the FSDO are you?

Martha Stewart: So what kind of gourmet meals can you cook up using a dull plastic knife and a hot plate?

Martha King: You're comfortable that I trained with Jeppeson materials right?

Barack Obama: Air Force 1 out of service?

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks for the Congrats. We would have a common purpose because I would want to go flying anyway with or without a PAX.

Not as the FAA defines that term. You weren't planning on flying until the passenger asked you, and neither you nor the passenger have a reason to be traveling to that destination on that day. Simply wishing to go up and fly around will never meet the FAA's definition of "common purpose".

 

[ClimbnSink]

Taking PAX if asked? Heck ya, I always take my paxil when the nice nurse tells me to.

 

[poadeleted20]

Nearly everyone I know has heard me say at one time or another "I'm always looking for an excuse just to go flying" and you can bet I'll call them as a witness at the trial. Enjoyment of the activity constitutes common purpose.

Their testimony to that effect will not have much effect on the outcome. The term is well-defined in both case law and FAA Chief Counsel interpretations, and the courts have accepted that it means what the FAA says it does, not what you are saying it does.

Best advice I can give on expense-sharing is never, ever put anything about doing it on paper or in any form which goes on the Internet.

 

[evapilotaz]

Ok Ron point taken.

 

[evapilotaz]

In that case, only in moderate chop.

I would do negative G dives and see If I can make them float over her head.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

What if PAX says on Monday "Hey I hear that (insert $100 burger joint) is awesome, we should try that some time." You say "I was just going to ask if you wanted to try it sometime"

Then you put it on your calendar for a week away. now you are planning a trip for a common purpose?

Just after you land he says "Oh crap, I forgot I owe you $40 for helping me watch that football game last Saturday"

In the clear

 

[frfly172]

Most people I take for a ride are on my dime. Always enjoy taking people for their first ride. Now that I'm retired any excuse to fly makes me happy.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Not as the FAA defines that term. You weren't planning on flying until the passenger asked you, and neither you nor the passenger have a reason to be traveling to that destination on that day. Simply wishing to go up and fly around will never meet the FAA's definition of "common purpose".

So, for a local flight where there is no travel to any destination there is no "common purpose" because the airplane is being used for something other than transportation?

 

[Geico266]

Taking two newbies up tonight because they asked. I need to fire up the -10 any way.

 

[Jayhawk]

Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Nope. I'll ask about any previous experience they've had, try to figure out their general attitude towards flying. If I don't know them that well I'll be feeling out their personality.

Do you take them flying on your Dime?

Absolutely, and I'll usually throw in lunch at the airport. If it's someone's first time in a small aircraft, I want to make the experience as memorable as possible.

Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?

50/50 with friends I fly regularly with, but never for someone's first flight.

Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

Yep. Pretty much the first question I'll ask.

Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

Any problems with claustrophobia? is a big one that I'll ask. The Gobosh's cockpit is small enough that I've heard a few stories about it triggering that, even with the bubble canopy. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

 

[evapilotaz]

I think the first time up its on my dime and there after we will see if they want repeated flights. If I was already flying anyway sure you can tag along at my expense. No if they want me to take everyone of their family members, friends, cats, Dogs ect ect we might have an issue there.

 

[evapilotaz]

I think the first time up its on my dime and there after we will see if they want repeated flights. If I was already flying anyway sure you can tag along at my expense. No if they want me to take everyone of their family members, friends, cats, Dogs ect ect we might have an issue there.

Kind of off topic from the original intention of this thread.

Anyway what questions do you ask the first timer to get the feel if they would end joy the flight.

 

[N801BH]

>Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Without bringing granny's undies in to the mix.......Barack Obama: Air Force 1 out of service?

Hmmmmm..

I would say up front...

"if you like your lunch... you can keep your lunch"...

For my entire 30+ years of flying, NO One has thrown up while in my planes... BHO would be the first.. I can guarantee it.......

 

[jbarrass]

Here is a Hypothetical question.

What if someone that could be a friend, relative, co worker or someone in passing finds out your a Pilot and they asked "Hey lets go flying"
Do you take them flying no questions asked?

Pretty much. (not literally, there are of course questions)

Do you take them flying on your Dime?

Sure, though if they offer to buy the lunch or pancakes I'd accept.

Do you share cost of the rental hobbs rate?

I don't rent, but if I did, probably not. No need to scare them....

Do you ask them "have you been in small airplanes before"

Yup.

Anything else you would ask them that I didn't list?

general questions to see their tolerance for bumps, noise, climate, etc....

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

I never accept any payment.

Several times people have offered to buy gas, but I always refuse. It's my joy to offer a flight to someone who rarely sees the inside of a small plane, and I don't want my friends to know how much gas costs! The airplane's tanks must be full before friends arrive. I never buy fuel when non-pilots are around.

I took one persistent friend up several times, where he ended up manipulating the controls as much as I once we were airborne. Instead of letting him pay for gas, I suggested it was time he started taking lessons for himself.

He did.

Win-win.

 

[Brad Z]

Ron is absolutely right regarding the regs. The regs are written very restrictively because for years people have been trying to get around part 135 rules.

That said, when I was 19 and my parents asked me to take grandma for a flight, and paid for the flight, I didn't balk and I suspect the FAA wouldn't care too much about it. Now if my Grandma had complained to the FSDO, well...

Y'all be safe out there...

 

[poadeleted20]

What if PAX says on Monday "Hey I hear that (insert $100 burger joint) is awesome, we should try that some time." You say "I was just going to ask if you wanted to try it sometime"

Then you put it on your calendar for a week away. now you are planning a trip for a common purpose?

Just after you land he says "Oh crap, I forgot I owe you $40 for helping me watch that football game last Saturday"

In the clear

You can play those games if you like, but my very strong suggestion is don't put any of that in writing or say it in front of witnesses.

 

[poadeleted20]

So, for a local flight where there is no travel to any destination there is no "common purpose" because the airplane is being used for something other than transportation?

No. There is no common purpose because there is no need for you to be transported to that location, but you are still providing air transportation to your passenger.

Again: Just stay away from this, especially putting it in writing.

 

[Clip4]

Congratulations -- you just violated 14 CFR 61.113 because you accepted the passenger's share of the expenses without having a common purpose for the flight.

Are you hungary? Common purpose solved, we going for lunch.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

You can play those games if you like, but my very strong suggestion is don't put any of that in writing or say it in front of witnesses.

I am being sarcastic. I have never charged anyone.
Anytime I fly, I invite others along. Love flying with passengers and have been offered money but I look at it like I am flying anyway. Doesn't cost me any more to have someone else in the plane.

I let a friend buy me lunch once actually. That is probably the closest I have come to accepting anything from anyone.

 

[N801BH]

Geez Louis guys.......

The only time the feds will stick their noses in this issue, is if there is a smoking hole..... And by then it don't matter.....