Taking away YOUR USA Pilot landing rights AGAIN

D

Dave Krall CFII

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Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
Pilots need to write a few lines please, and send it to ASAP:

Oregon Dept. of Aviation Board
3040 25th St., SE
Salem ,Oregon 97302-1125
FAX (503) 373-1688
Or Email: aviation.mail@state.or.us

We won this last summer and now they're after us AGAIN, trying to CLOSE Waldo Lake to all seaplanes!

by btwainwright » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:55 pm
The Oregon State Department of Aviation (ODA) Board will be holding a Public Hearing on the proposed Final Rule for Waldo Lake on January 31, 2013. The Hearing will be held in the Ken Long Conference Room at the Willamalane Center, 250 South 32nd Street, Springfield, Oregon between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. This meeting is the culmination of the action by the ODA Board to craft rules that will allow continued use of Waldo Lake by seaplanes. If you are unfamiliar with this issue, or need a refresher, please visit the Columbia Seaplane Pilots Association (CSPA) website for the story. Read, particularly, Aron's May 6, 2012 Bull-a-Ton article Waldo Lake:Finding Common ground.

CSPA greatly appreciates the work of the ODA Board in attempting to find common ground with the other users of the lake. The ODA effort has been met with opposition by those not wanting motorized use of the lake. Oregon Wild and the U.S. Forest Service are so opposed to this rule that they categorically refused to participate in crafting the Temporary Rules back in May. They and their constituents will not, however, refuse to participate in this hearing and will no doubt be there in force. For this reason CSPA is asking that any local pilots, seaplane and otherwise, that can take the time to support the ODA Board come to the meeting and sign up to speak. It will probably be a rather lively proceeding.

If you are out of the area and interested in preserving you rights to use the Sovereign Waters of the State of Oregon in the future you can send a brief, or lengthy, letter or email to the Oregon Department of Aviation expressing your support for the Board action to:
Oregon Dept. of Aviation Board
3040 25th St., SE
Salem ,Oregon 97302-1125
FAX (503) 373-1688
Or Email: aviation.mail@state.or.us

Thanks in advance,
CSPA Board of Directors

Scroll Down toward the end of this attachment for the proposed rules in Red
Attachments
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Waldo Lake Permanent Rule.pdf(273.98 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
 
Uh, the red text doesn't say they are closing it to all seaplanes.
 
EdFred said:
Uh, the red text doesn't say they are closing it to all seaplanes.
Click to expand...

I'll look to find what you're referring to. This important issue is on a number of other forums such as, seaplaneforum.com and SPA and C-SPA.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Yea, same here.:dunno:

After reading it I don't see anything unreasonable. Looks like they want it not used for training and defined operating areas.
Click to expand...

Also no night takeoffs and landings - which shouldn't need to be a regulation.

OAR 738-040-037
Waldo Lake access and the use of seaplanes with certain restrictions.
1. Seaplane pilots shall not use Waldo Lake for pilot training. Waldo Lake may only be used as a destination lake for the purpose of recreation. Seaplanes may only be used as the mode of transportation to and from the lake.
2. Seaplanes shall be limited in their hours of operation to access Waldo Lake between the hours of 8am or 30 minutes after sunrise whichever is later and 8pm or 30 minutes prior to sunset whichever is earlier for arrivals and departures.
3. Seaplane operations on Waldo Lake shall be limited to the eastern half of the lake at a location where seaplanes can operate safely. Pilots will be responsible for operating in a safe manner so as to not endanger any persons or watercraft using the lake.
4. Seaplane pilots shall screen their aircraft for invasive species prior to landing at Waldo Lake. Any invasive species discovered shall be removed prior to arrival at Waldo Lake.
5. Pilots shall use best noise abatement procedures consistent with safe operating procedures. High power taxi such as plow taxi is prohibited except where required for safety.
6. Pilots are required to notify the Department of Aviation, using an FAA flight plan form within 48 hours of departure from Waldo Lake to empirically document usage. The Department shall keep track of seaplane operations to quantify the scope of usage. The Flight Plan report shall include
i. Point of contact including phone number
ii. Time of Arrival
iii. Time of Departure
7. Landings as a result of an aircraft emergency are at the discretion of the pilot in command of the aircraft and are not subject to this rule. Notification to Oregon Department of Aviation for documentation is still required in accordance with paragraph 6 above.
Statutory Authority: ORS 183.335, ORS 184.619, ORS 835.035, ORS 835.080, ORS 835.200
Click to expand...

What I don't like about this proposal, is that by the letter of the law, I couldn't land there and then fish from my seaplane. I also don't like the requirement to fill out a flight plan to depart.
 
Last edited:
I think you're reading what is in place NOW, which is the result of our work and temporary victory last year, 2012.

We wish to keep that present ruling for all pilots, and the hearing coming up is to try to eliminate seaplane use. The comments are accepted until 1/30/2013.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
I think you're reading what is in place NOW, which is the result of our work and temporary victory last year, 2012.

We wish to keep that present ruling for all pilots, and the hearing coming up is to try to eliminate seaplane use. The comments are accepted until 1/30/2013.
Click to expand...


Then someone must have sent you the wrong PDF, because what you posted said the red text is what is being proposed.
 
EdFred said:
Also no night takeoffs and landings - which shouldn't need to be a regulation.



What I don't like about this proposal, is that by the letter of the law, I couldn't land there and then fish from my seaplane. I also don't like the requirement to fill out a flight plan to depart.
Click to expand...

The Flight Plan REPORT is submitted within 48 hours after operations, and is to help document use by seaplanes.

If we lose this lake to closure, we certainly won't have to worry about that, ever.

Your comments seem reasonable, can you include them in a note and send it to them please?
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Thank you for spotting that, I'm contacting them right now.
Click to expand...

I think you got the correct info - but there are groups in Oregon that want to ban seaplanes entirely, so they will be out in force to oppose the ODA proposal and demand a complete ban on seaplanes.

The groups in question have already managed to get all motorized boats banned from the lake - they want to get seaplanes banned too. Here is the Eugene Register Guard story on the subject:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/updates/29277736-55/lake-board-ban-aviation-state.html.csp

The Register Guard is all for the ban; here is their editorial so you know what kind of arguments are going to be used:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/29313247-47/seaplanes-lake-board-ban-state.html.csp
 
Jim Logajan said:
I think you got the correct info - but there are groups in Oregon that want to ban seaplanes entirely, so they will be out in force to oppose the ODA proposal and demand a complete ban on seaplanes.

The groups in question have already managed to get all motorized boats banned from the lake - they want to get seaplanes banned too. Here is the Eugene Register Guard story on the subject:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/updates/29277736-55/lake-board-ban-aviation-state.html.csp

The Register Guard is all for the ban; here is their editorial so you know what kind of arguments are going to be used:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/29313247-47/seaplanes-lake-board-ban-state.html.csp
Click to expand...

Thank you, Jim,

The motor boat engines shooting exhaust directly into the lake water, combined with their much higher numbers makes hydrocarbon pollution much more of an issue with them than with the very few seaplane ops that do not pollute water with introduced hydrocarbon exhaust.

We won last time with our comments outnumbered about 10:1 because they took into consideration the very small numbers of seaplane pilots, so we feel (hope) they will give that consideration again in the final rule making....
 
EdFred said:
After I see the actual proposed rule, I will comment.
Click to expand...

The present temporary rule, is also the proposed rule, that we pilots wish to make permanent, and which our opponents are strongly opposing.

I am curious about your interpretation on fishing from a seaplane, as I don't read any specific prohibitions.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
The present temporary rule, is also the proposed rule, that we pilots wish to make permanent, and which our opponents are strongly opposing.

I am curious about your interpretation on fishing from a seaplane, as I don't read any specific prohibitions.
Click to expand...


1. Seaplane pilots shall not use Waldo Lake for pilot training. Waldo Lake may only be used as a destination lake for the purpose of recreation. Seaplanes may only be used as the mode of transportation to and from the lake.
Click to expand...

Strictly written, I couldn't do anything with the plane once at the lake.
 
Hmmm, I just received an email from the Seaplane Pilots Association that said write letters thanking then for keeping it open.
 
Henning said:
Hmmm, I just received an email from the Seaplane Pilots Association that said write letters thanking then for keeping it open.
Click to expand...

That is to thank them for what they have done so far, and then ask them not to rescind it. Go to SPA and look there.
 
EdFred said:
Strictly written, I couldn't do anything with the plane once at the lake.
Click to expand...

Of the pilots talked with, it's about 50/50 whether to mention it in our letters or just keep it simple. I did mention it in one of my short notes to them.

The main thing of course is to get a quick note out to them with the SUBJECT clearly stating that we are for seaplane access on Waldo Lake, since often, only a line or two will get read.

Our emails were VERY successful in a similar effort last year, involving the closure of ALL lakes to aircraft in New Mexico!
 
It's about 24 hours to the comment deadline now, so if you could write even one subject line in favor of seaplane access on Waldo Lake OR, it would be great.

Thanks in Advance, to the few of you that will write!
 
Dave,

I think it was said that this lake has already been closed to motorized boats, yes?

I really don't have much ground to stand on (pun intended) on why our motorized vehicles should be allowed there when others have already been banned.
 
EdFred said:
Dave,

I think it was said that this lake has already been closed to motorized boats, yes?

I really don't have much ground to stand on (pun intended) on why our motorized vehicles should be allowed there when others have already been banned.
Click to expand...

There are THREE big reasons that they have thus far banned motor boats but allowed seaplanes and land vehicles around the lake:

1) Partly because Seaplanes and Cars DO Not Introduce HydroCarbon Pollution DIRECTLY Into The Lake Water the way outboard motors do.

2) Seaplane user numbers are extremely LOW, which equals very LOW environmental impact, almost none.

3) Seaplanes and cars are NEEDED for people's transportation and carrying camping gear just to get to the remote lake.

THEY ARE ACTUALLY THINKING!

How often have we pilots complained and wished for government to act like this and now they have, so let's keep it going and write a short note that will help all Pilots Of America.

Thanks Again, to the few that will respond.
 
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Here's another one I just wrote up and sent, which may be paraphrased and used by others in favor of allowing seaplane use at Waldo Lake:

There are THREE big reasons to please allow seaplanes and land vehicles around the lake:

1) Partly because Seaplanes and Cars DO Not Introduce HydroCarbon Pollution DIRECTLY Into The Lake Water the way outboard motors do.

2) Seaplane user numbers are extremely LOW, which equals very LOW environmental impact, almost none.

3) Seaplanes and cars are NEEDED for people's TRANSPORTATION and carrying camping gear just to get to the remote lake.

Thank you Again, for your continued consideration,

---------------
 
I emailed a comment.

I live about 20 minutes drive from Springfield - in theory close enough to attend the Springfield hearing on Thursday, but I have quite a few things happening that same day. Absolutely not going to promise to show up, but in the unlikely event I can, I will try.

EDIT:
For the record, this is what I sent (I accepted their proposed rule, even though it is somewhat restrictive; plus it does open the possibility of a complete ban if they decide to close the forest roads too!):

I would like to comment in favor of the proposed Waldo Lake Permanent Rule - and against any complete prohibition of seaplanes using Waldo Lake.

The proposed permanent rule addresses all reasonable objections to seaplanes using Waldo Lake - except for the subjective aesthetic issue of noise.

Since automobiles and other land motor vehicles are allowed access to some areas of Waldo lake via roads that were created (and will presumably be maintained) by noisy motorized equipment on which motorized vehicles will travel, and considering the historically low number of seaplane landings on Waldo Lake, a complete ban would be both non-equitable and almost redundant. No ban should be predicated on a criteria (noise) that is selectively applied to one form of transportation but not applied to users of another form, in this case ground transportation in road (so-called "developed") areas.

If the state of Oregon is able to maintain and keep open the access roads to Waldo Lake without use of motorized equipment, and if those roads are somehow unique in that that they do not disturb the noise or wilderness aesthetics (this seems inherently impossible to me) then a complete ban on seaplane use of Waldo lake might be reasonable. In that case access via hiking in would be the only allowed mode from an equity standpoint. That such a ban would likely exclude the handicapped from enjoying the aesthetic qualities seems to be harsh, but no different than many such areas that already exist. (Though ironically in that case seaplanes would allow the handicap to visit such wilderness environments without the permanent scarring that road building incurs.)

Permanently scarring forest roads shouldn't get a "pass" while ephemeral access by seaplanes get a "ban".

The State of Oregon should not be banning existing modes of transportation to alleged "unique" public areas using subjective aesthetic rationale - for reasons that I hope are obvious.

Thank you for taking the time to read my comment.

Regards,
James Logajan
​
 
Last edited:
Very well spoken Jim, and Thanks.

This latest iteration may be paraphrased and used by anyone supporting seaplane use at Waldo Lake OR:

There are THREE big reasons to allow seaplanes and land vehicles around the lake:

1) Partly because Seaplanes and Cars DO Not Introduce HydroCarbon Pollution DIRECTLY Into The Lake Water the way outboard motors do.

2) Seaplane user numbers are extremely LOW, which equals very LOW environmental impact, almost none.

3) Seaplanes and cars are NEEDED for people's TRANSPORTATION and carrying camping gear just to get to the remote lake.

Thank you Again, for your continued consideration,
 
The HEARING will be starting in a few hours, so if anybody can write a note to the LINK above in support of Seaplane use at Waldo Lake, it will still be accepted. Opposition is out in force but we can STILL get a favorable ruling, as we did last year. Thanks Again.

This latest iteration below may be paraphrased and used (or even copied) by anyone supporting seaplane use at Waldo Lake OR:

There are THREE big reasons to allow seaplanes and land vehicles around the lake:

1) Partly because Seaplanes and Cars DO Not Introduce HydroCarbon Pollution DIRECTLY Into The Lake Water the way outboard motors do.

2) Seaplane user numbers are extremely LOW, which equals very LOW environmental impact, almost none.

3) Seaplanes and cars are NEEDED for people's TRANSPORTATION and carrying camping gear just to get to the remote lake.

Thank you Again, for your continued consideration,
.......................
 
: To all who helped,

Last nights Waldo Lake Public Hearing was held in Springfield, Oregon. It went well considering the bunch of closed minded people that we were up against. The vote will come later and the board is defiantly under a lot of pressure. Hot button issues with the assembly were IAS, pollution: oil, fuel and noise, safety and not wanting to see a seaplane. As usual only one person in the room said they had ever seen a seaplane there.

As the SPA Field Director for Oregon I spoke on our efforts and training to avoid transporting IAS. Aron Faegre, President of CSPA, spoke on need for clear access to the lake and our efforts to find compromise. Other pilots made their points as well. The pilot turnout and supporters for seaplanes was probably the best I have seen. Thanks to all those who participated in person and to the forums, blogs and associations that got the word out.

Bill Wainwright
SPA Field Director for Oregon
CSPA Vice President [unquote]
Click to expand...
 
I am not a seaplane pilot, but I do remember hiking into Waldo as a youngster when there was no road access at all. Waldo is still a favorite destination for summer kayaking. Being a rare jewel in the Oregon Cascades I am pleased to hear that looks like it will continue to be shared by ALL who are committed to keeping it clean and enjoyable.
 
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