Taixiing into parking

TknoFlyer

TknoFlyer

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jun 7, 2008
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Leesburg, VA - KJYO
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John T
I was being marshalled into a parking spot last evening after landing at Charleston, WV (KCRW) (and it was a greaser of a landing, if I do say so myself) and found myself being directed right over the tie-down rope for the tail. I've had this happen a few times now at various airports and cringe every time. I know the prop is at low power and is several inches above the ground, but I still have visions of the rope being sucked up into the prop. When I'm taxiing into a tie-down spot without a marshaller, I tend to enter at a skew so the prop doesn't pass over the rope, but I've opted for following direction rather than cause concern by making my own route when being marshalled.

Crazy? I don't know, so I consult the Conventional Wisdom of the group: Is taxiing over tie-down ropes a concern or not worthy of synaptic energy?

BTW, friendly folks there at KCRW. Controllers and ground crew alike.
 
I would be very surprised if you managed to pick up the rope or even move it at a reasonable power setting. The prop is grabbing air from the front and the rope is below the prop. The rope is also aerodynamically clean (for its weight) and the air is just going to flow around it.

I was a guy that learned to fly at a Class D airport and never saw a tie-down rope until well after my private. We always parked and the airplane was pulled into the hangar by the line. The first time I had to taxi over a rope I was worried as well and avoided it--eventually I thought about it and watched other people do it.

I still avoid it--if you have to do it at idle.

(Yes, I edited this. As I wanted to make my opinion more clear)
 
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TknoFlyer said:
I was being marshalled into a parking spot last evening after landing at Charleston, WV (KCRW) (and it was a greaser of a landing, if I do say so myself) and found myself being directed right over the tie-down rope for the tail. I've had this happen a few times now at various airports and cringe every time. I know the prop is at low power and is several inches above the ground, but I still have visions of the rope being sucked up into the prop. When I'm taxiing into a tie-down spot without a marshaller, I tend to enter at a skew so the prop doesn't pass over the rope, but I've opted for following direction rather than cause concern by making my own route when being marshalled.

Crazy? I don't know, so I consult the Conventional Wisdom of the group: Is taxiing over tie-down ropes a concern or not worthy of synaptic energy?
Click to expand...

I don't, since most times there's a small depression where the rope is tied to a link.

Some props are closer to the ground than others. And how do you know you haven't lost some Nitrogen pressure from the front strut during the flight?

It's not worth a prop strike to find out.

Marshallers can help guide, but when I'm PIC, I'm PIC, until the thing's tied down and locked up. Don't believe me? Hit the prop tip and see where the marshaller is after you shut down.

I'm not advocating ignoring the marshal, but the tiny deviations that you require are your call, period.

The Chopper jocks in the Cav made it a point to not look at the Scout guiding them in for landing. Even though we were responsible for the LZ, their attitude was, "Thanks for the help, but I'm landing this thing -- I only look to see if you wave me off..."
 
FWIW. My CFI taught me to never taxi over a rope.

I'm sure some of the more experienced pilots will weigh in on the validity of that instruction.
 
Here's my take...go to a seaplane base, and look at props. If you're not careful, they suck up water like crazy from as much as a couple of feet below the prop tips.

Watch an airplane park in the runup area or on the ramp with their prop directly over a puddle. Nice little hurricane gets sucked up from the puddle to the prop.

I used to load sprayplanes...they flew off gravel roads...they never shut down their engines...I've spent countless hours watching little whirlwinds full of pebbles spinning between the ground and the prop.

I don't taxi over tiedown ropes. Period.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Fly safe!

David
 
The chances of picking up the rope are probably slim-to-none, but nonetheless, I tend to dodge them myself. If nothing else, like someone already mentioned, I do it to avoid hitting the dimple in the pavement where the hook is anchored. Probably not much chance of having problems by doing so, but it's not a big deal to deviate the 6" necessary to dodge everything. Just one less chance for some weird fluke thing to happen.
 
A renter taxied over a tie-down chain in a leased-back 172RG I had on line at the club and the chain came up and hit the prop. It nicked it to the point it couldn't be filed out, and the incident cost my partner and me $4000 for a new blade and etc. [Club's insurance refused to pay, said it was "normal wear and tear."] So, if it can happen with a chain, it seems it could certainly happen with some rope.
 
I'm with the folks who avoid taxiing over a rope (or anything else that's loose), the chances might be small but the consequences are large. And Dan said the most important thing: the marshaller guides, you command. There have been times when a lineman tried to guide me into a spot where a strong wind would be blowing from behind and in such cases I will simply park facing the way I want since I'd rather not have the door blown off when I open it.
 
TknoFlyer said:
When I'm taxiing into a tie-down spot without a marshaller, I tend to enter at a skew so the prop doesn't pass over the rope, but I've opted for following direction rather than cause concern by making my own route when being marshalled.
Click to expand...

Questions: Did the marshaller even know the rope was there? If he did, was he concerned in the least that you had the potential to pick it up into the prop? Did he realize that's a potential side effect even if it's unlikely? Did he care?


IMHO: My plane, my prop, my hardware, my responsibility. Not theirs. They go home and have a beer whether you wander all over the ramp and park in the weeds or twist a chain up around your prop and sieze your engine. I don't see any point in taxiing over something when you can go around it.

Just thinking with my keyboard: Sometimes I wonder what the purpose and actual use of the marshalers are for GA most of the time. I mean, do they serve some kind of important purpose like the ones on aircraft carriers do that I'm missing? They often stand in front of the prop where I think I'll confetti them if they stumble. (Sorry ramp rats but you need to stand to the side and stay well clear of the prop area completely - yea I was one of you guys once and I'm a pilot also - in front of the prop is NOT where you belong) I can also usually find my way to a tiedown or parking space just by looking at the marks on the ground and other planes. If I'm risking bumping anything, I'm not going to be letting a total stranger on the ramp that may not be actually aware of my dimensions or other factors tell me if I'm clear or not. I'm either safely clear or I'll shut down, get out and look.
 
I've had the same question in the past with such tie-downs. I've never seen a rope sucked up but why risk it? If you can avoid it, do it... even if that means shutting down short of the tie-down and hand-towing it into parking.
 
I try never to taxi over the tiedowns. Remember, the marshaller is not taking responsibility if you ding something.
Last week, I got to put a couple hours on a plane on the west coast. This FBO had an entirely different take on things. The planes were untied and moved into the row before starting and were shutdown and pushed back into the parking area. Keeps you from worrying about running over the tiesdowns.
 
Just remember who eats the problem if the prop picks up the rope -- and it ain't the marshaller. If the marshaller insists, just shut down and tell the marshaller to pull it in by hand/tug.
 
See? If we'd stuck to the tailwheels, we wouldn't be having this conversation...:rolleyes:
 
At Ames, IA the FBO kept the tie down straps on a golf cart when not being used.

silver-eagle said:
I try never to taxi over the tiedowns. Remember, the marshaller is not taking responsibility if you ding something.
Last week, I got to put a couple hours on a plane on the west coast. This FBO had an entirely different take on things. The planes were untied and moved into the row before starting and were shutdown and pushed back into the parking area. Keeps you from worrying about running over the tiesdowns.
Click to expand...
 
CJones said:
The chances of picking up the rope are probably slim-to-none, but nonetheless, I tend to dodge them myself.
Click to expand...
I watched a tie-down rope get picked up, chewed, and then spit out by a prop at our local airport. It makes an interesting noise.
 
Diana said:
I watched a tie-down rope get picked up, chewed, and then spit out by a prop at our local airport. It makes an interesting noise.
Click to expand...

I'll have to update my probability from slim-to-none to 'hell, it could happen!'. :)
 
Diana said:
I watched a tie-down rope get picked up, chewed, and then spit out by a prop at our local airport. It makes an interesting noise.
Click to expand...

Do you know if the prop was damaged?
 
Interesting thread. I have never heard of this or even thought about it before. I taxi over the ropes all the time.
 
We have equipped our tie-down ropes with hooks and keep them in a barrel. S-Hooks and/or chain repair links work fine. We bring them out and hook them to the cables when needed. If I pre-position ropes for some one I know is coming in, I will capture the loose part of the rope under the cable. As far as the purpose of marshalling, I'd like to direct you to a different area of the ramp if you are staying overnight than if you are only staying for a little while. Where I want you may also be influenced by what I know about other expected traffic. I may need to mix 65 ft. wing span jets with 30 ft. wing span Cherokees.
 
One of our club planes picked up a tiedown rope, wrapped it around the prop hub and then fortunately, the rope broke. This was before I was on the board so I'm not sure of the details of the repair (other than the pilot paid for it). I think it was just an inspection and some cosmetic work.

I'll find out the details when I get back to LA.

Joe
currently at MKO off to PUB (the airport not the watering hole) today.
 
Interesting--shows what I know--I suspect they probably needed a fair amount of power to do it. Better to avoid though.
 
Hmm....something I've never really thought about.

I try not to taxi over them because of the wear and tear on the ropes. I want my plane secured and not blowing around in 30kt winds with a tattered rope.

I now know that I don't want to do it because it can get sucked in!!
 
RossFischer said:
Hmm....something I've never really thought about.

I try not to taxi over them because of the wear and tear on the ropes. I want my plane secured and not blowing around in 30kt winds with a tattered rope.
Click to expand...

Good point!

A few weeks ago we flew into FFA (First Flight, Kitty Hawk, NC).

The tie down ropes were so weatherbeaten, they were the consistency of fine cat hair...

Was amusing, really.

BTW, the AOPA welcome center there is VERY nice...well done.
 
I see people do it all of the time (with apparent success), but I never do it. If necessary for parking, I shut down early and pull the plane over the rope. The inconvience is slight, but the consequences of a prop strike are very severe.
 
Now, I know a guy who tried twice on one trip to taxi over wheel chocks. The first time he even put in about 70 percent power before the light went on between his ears.
 
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