tailwheels and other diversions (fairly long)

grattonja

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I took a day off yesterday and finished knocking out my "conventional endorsement". Yep, me and the Champ are buddies now, sort of.

It took several trips up to get used to the Champ, and it's handling qualities. Truly, it is amazing to fly a plane that has not had some of the less benign handling qualities engineered out. "Whow, THAT is what adverse aileron yaw feels like". For example. Leading a turn with rudder, and ending a turn with rudder. Stalling without a stall warning horn, in a plane that the CFI very carefully said "no aileron correction in stall, all inputs MUST be through the rudder". He had a scary experience in a Champ at one point, apparently swapping ends in an incipient spin. I found stalls to be benign, but maybe I was just having a good day. Tracking the runway, on take offs and landings, in a plane that requires constant rudder inputs. Upon landing, I heard repeatedly a phrase that I had never heard before. "Walk it out". And that really is what you do. Your feet do a dance on the rudder pedals and you must be constantly on top of the airplane. Also surprising to me was how uncordinated I have been flying. You feel, and I really mean feel, any yaw that you are not correcting for. The plane goes around a turn and the nose shoots off to the outside of the turn. And you really see it. Even in cruise flight, you get a definite sense of what you are doing with the controls, even without the giant slip ball in the center of the panel.

Landing a tail dragger, now there is a test for a fairly low time, trike pilot. I picked up 3 point landings fairly fast, once I figured out not to flare 2 or 3 feet above the runway, but rather right down pretty much on it. Wheel landings, now they are another thing. I had gotten a couple of passable wheel landings on grass on the last training session, but could not seem to duplicate them at first this time. Finally, through some sort of osmosis, I figured out that I really do need to fly the plane all the way to the ground, until the mains are pretty much there, and I really do need those few extra knots of speed to make it happen. Then, gee, I really do need to get that d----d stick all the way forward or I am going to keep bouncing.

After an hour or so, I finally got to the point where I could do touch and goes on the mains on the tar. At that point, I got my sign off, and he sent me out then so that I could demonstrate a few 3 pointers in the grass, to prove I can fly the plane without the weight in the back seat. I seem to have a genetic predisposition to NOT pull the stick all the way into my lap once the plane was on the ground. I am not sure that I have absolutely scared that out of myself yet, but I am pretty close.

On the whole, the training for conventional has been great. I am controlling rudder with way more finesse than I ever did before. Talk about confidence building for time spent in the much more docile trike planes. And, I can now keep working with the Champ, improving my pattern work and flying skills, in a plane that provides real challenge for me. Who could ever imagine that an aircraft that is so SIMPLE could kick one's butt so hard?

Also, it was good to spend time in a plane with so little excess power. With CFI and myself on board, and a full 13 gallons of fuel, we climbed in density altitude of 1500 feet, with something like 250 to 300 feet per minute, tops. I have seen Smoketown from low horizon angles now that I have never looked down from before. The greenhouses off the departure end of runway 28 don't look like much in the skyhawk. When you are climbing out in the Champ though, and looking UP at them, that is different.

I would HIGHLY recommend that any trike pilot without tailwheel time spend some time in a machine like a Champ. It's sheer simplicity, coupled with it's light weight, make it a challenging machine to fly, and a machine that really conveys to you directly what it is doing, and how. Crosswinds? You feel them, you have to compensate for them, you have to handle them with great care. And it is possible to both over and undercompensate for them. Which was new to me. In the skyhawk, I have seen what undercompensation can be like, but have never really seen the aircraft get tippy from overcompensation. That great big fabric wing wants to go, seemingly, everywhere but where you want it to go.

It didn't hurt the day either, that I got to take the cutlass over the Perkiomen Valley for avionics, fly a 152 back, and take a bit of multi training while moving an aztec from one airport to another. 4 airplanes in one day, two of which I had never flown before...

I need more vacation days like that!

Jim G
 
Your experience was a lot like mine in a low-hp C140 at DA of 7500' with two people. I got a lot of time barreling down the runway waiting for it to lift off, foot-dancing/cursing/praying. The same on landing; long ground runs.
I have to say that kind of plane makes you work and while I'm glad I did it, I never felt on top of the airplane so I sold it.
 
Jim, great story, and congratulations on getting your tailwheel endorsement. It's a special accomplishment, as most pilots don't go this route. Good for you!

I liked your report a lot, especially "Truly, it is amazing to fly a plane that has not had some of the less benign handling qualities engineered out." So true. I've never flown a Champ, but I know what you mean about working the rudder all the time and being quite aware of adverse yaw. I remember feeling that the Decathlon was slipping and swinging all over the sky. And then flying it all the way to the chocks. That's the expression my instructor used. After a couple months of this, you get back in your tricycle plane and it feels like you can just sit there flying with your feet on the floor.

Wheel landings are so much fun. I try to do at least one each time I come back to the pattern after practice (if there's time I do several landings after each acro lesson). I'm still learning how to bring the descent to inches per minute just before touching down. Once in a while I get it right. :rolleyes:

I envy your being able to solo in your plane. For insurance reasons, I have never had the chance to fly my flight school's tailwheel plane by myself. Can't imagine what it would be like without that weight in the back.

So, what is the plan now, Jim? Keep flying the Champ?
 
Jim, I really enjoyed your tailwheel story. Yup, adverse yaw bigtime, you learn to use that rudder pretty darned fast. And yes, the dance. Now go one step further, and go fly some acro taildraggers, and get upside down!:goofy:

I'm green with envy that you have a taildragger available for rent, I'd be all over that. If I ever want to fly taildraggers again, I'll have to buy one.
 
Jim-

Congratulations, excellent review, the Champ is one of the all time GREAT Primary trainers, in my opinion it and the Stearman have tied for First place, in reality they have remarkably similar flight characteristics.

One small but important point, "Leading a turn with rudder", while frequently misunderstood you never "lead" with rudder, rudder is used to counteract "Adverse Aileron Yaw" until you actually deflect the ailerons there is no yaw, therefore no need for rudder to counteract the absent yaw. It is a 1-2 event with 2 coming IMMEDIATELY after 1.

Trust your instructor you never use aileron to raise a wing approaching a stall, the lowered aileron will instantly increase the AOA and stall the wing while the afore noted yaw will cause it to yaw into the direction of the lowered aileron. Instead of raising the wing you can actually find that wing dropping rapidly, opposite to the direction of control deflection, if fully stalled a spin could result.

Tom-
 
bbchien said:
Now you need the ultimate taildragger: http://www.prairieaviationmuseum.org/dc3/


One of the 99s in my wife's group is supposedly going to have a DC 3 in the family. I think her husband was to be getting one with a partner, and there was some hope of flight training in it. Janet has already said that will be on both of our to-do lists for the future if it happens. We can but hope. I would love to fly a DC3, such a beautiful and classic airplane.

Jim G
 
Toby said:
Jim, great story, and congratulations on getting your tailwheel endorsement. It's a special accomplishment, as most pilots don't go this route. Good for you!

I liked your report a lot, especially "Truly, it is amazing to fly a plane that has not had some of the less benign handling qualities engineered out." So true. I've never flown a Champ, but I know what you mean about working the rudder all the time and being quite aware of adverse yaw. I remember feeling that the Decathlon was slipping and swinging all over the sky. And then flying it all the way to the chocks. That's the expression my instructor used. After a couple months of this, you get back in your tricycle plane and it feels like you can just sit there flying with your feet on the floor.

Wheel landings are so much fun. I try to do at least one each time I come back to the pattern after practice (if there's time I do several landings after each acro lesson). I'm still learning how to bring the descent to inches per minute just before touching down. Once in a while I get it right. :rolleyes:

I envy your being able to solo in your plane. For insurance reasons, I have never had the chance to fly my flight school's tailwheel plane by myself. Can't imagine what it would be like without that weight in the back.

So, what is the plan now, Jim? Keep flying the Champ?

Thanks for the compliment Toby. I have really enjoyed my flights in the Champ so far. I will probably take some more training in it, to get to feel really comfortable with it. Especially wheel landings which I really need more work in. Then I can take it up sometimes alone to explore some of the grass strips that are a no-no for the rentals with wheel fairings. Sometimes I just like to get up in the plane alone and go somewhere. I find the time very solitary and comforting. As an attorney, so much of work is people interaction, and I find that I sometimes need a real break from that. I am hoping that the occasional short trip in the Champ will help with that.

I try to take some instrument training each month. But I also find that I need TOL practice to keep my skills up as well. I will continue to use the other airplanes to keep the IR up to date and proficient. But I think the Champ will be my TOL tool from now on. It is so much more high input than the other aircraft, it really does increase one's skills.

I was hoping that Aerotech was going to buy the Decathalon that they worked on a month ago. 180 HP and Acro in a tailwheel would have been great! Alas, it did not happen. I would love some acro time. That is on the future to do list.

Jim G
 
grattonja said:
I was hoping that Aerotech was going to buy the Decathalon that they worked on a month ago. 180 HP and Acro in a tailwheel would have been great! Alas, it did not happen. I would love some acro time. That is on the future to do list.
You will love it. If you and Janet want to take a trip out here sometime, I can get you set up for an introductory acro session at Northeast in a 180 hp 8KCAB. You'd get a taste of what it's like, and it would be a nice day trip for you.

[edit] see Avatar photo at left
 
Toby said:
You will love it. If you and Janet want to take a trip out here sometime, I can get you set up for an introductory acro session at Northeast in a 180 hp 8KCAB. You'd get a taste of what it's like, and it would be a nice day trip for you.

[edit] see Avatar photo at left


Absolutely. We will take you up on that sometime. Janet just started a new job, with commute unfortunately, but once the dust settles she will be looking for some vacations away. That would be just a lot of fun.

Jim G
 
Skyport said:
Jim-

Congratulations, excellent review, the Champ is one of the all time GREAT Primary trainers, in my opinion it and the Stearman have tied for First place, in reality they have remarkably similar flight characteristics.

One small but important point, "Leading a turn with rudder", while frequently misunderstood you never "lead" with rudder, rudder is used to counteract "Adverse Aileron Yaw" until you actually deflect the ailerons there is no yaw, therefore no need for rudder to counteract the absent yaw. It is a 1-2 event with 2 coming IMMEDIATELY after 1.

Trust your instructor you never use aileron to raise a wing approaching a stall, the lowered aileron will instantly increase the AOA and stall the wing while the afore noted yaw will cause it to yaw into the direction of the lowered aileron. Instead of raising the wing you can actually find that wing dropping rapidly, opposite to the direction of control deflection, if fully stalled a spin could result.

Tom-

Thanks for the advice. With about 7 hours in the Champ I can use all the advice that I can get. So the stearman handles much the same? That is interesting, as flying a biplane is definitely on my future to-do list.

Jim G
 
Jim-

The Stearman flies like a 7 series, a stock Stearman has performance about equal to a 7ECA. However any bi-plane has much greater drag, therefore it bleeds speed rapidly when you flare so it is normal to flare lower, and will bleed speed and settle on final if you allow it to get slow, or nose high.

While wheel landings are required for the endorsement in the days before the endorsement was required we rarely, never, taught them in our flight school fleet of seven 7AC's. I doubt that I ever do more than a dozen wheel landings in a year, and then only on long, smooth, runways..............usually to remind myself how much additional runway is actually required by the increased touchdown speed. The three-point landing will always result in minimum touchdown speed, and minimum runway requirement.

Tom-
 
Skyport said:
Jim-

While wheel landings are required for the endorsement in the days before the endorsement was required we rarely, never, taught them in our flight school fleet of seven 7AC's. I doubt that I ever do more than a dozen wheel landings in a year, and then only on long, smooth, runways..............usually to remind myself how much additional runway is actually required by the increased touchdown speed. The three-point landing will always result in minimum touchdown speed, and minimum runway requirement.

Tom-

It's one of those things. I did the T/W in the 7ECA and did about a zillion wheels landings and was then told "don't do those anymore." But It seems like a useful technique, particularly in a x-wind situation. Wheels landing is definitely NOT a short field technique.
 
grattonja said:
I have yet to spin a plane. Definitely on my short list of trainign items that I need.

It's a blast but, make sure to schedule the recovery right after the spin ! Hooded spin recoveries too...
 
Larry-

I regularly fly my Citabria in winds that keep tri-gears grounded...................and I always do so using a three-point landing.

Tom-
 
Skyport said:
Larry-

I regularly fly my Citabria in winds that keep tri-gears grounded...................and I always do so using a three-point landing.

Tom-

I've always thought wheel landings were a waste of time since, you're gonna land 3 point eventually but, a buddy I just flew with in Alaska says HE uses them ALL the time for short fields (like 400 feet) because they give more control and don't increase landing distance more than 5%.

Regarding X-Winds, I've never seen a taildragger out in over 30 knots winds when we're out there but there isn't that many TDs at city airports.
 
grattonja said:
I have yet to spin a plane. Definitely on my short list of trainign items that I need.
Definitely a must- slaying the dragon once or ten times truly reduces irrational fear and increases udnerstanding of the dragon's neighborhood.
 
Dave-

I've heard all sorts of reasons why wheel landings are preferred................given that a three-point landing allows the plane to touchdown at minimum speed and minimum energy it would take an unusual technique for a wheel landing to result in a shorter rollout distance.

Interesting that all of the pre-war CAA manuals, and WWII military training manuals only mentioned, and pictured, three-point landings...............food for thought. Associates frequently ask me why the current infatuation with wheel landings....................and I honestly haven't the fainest idea.

I'm more than happy to have a short landing contest, my flapless 7GCAA making three-points against...........................any other Citabria, even a flapped GCBC, doing wheel landings.

Tom-
 
Skyport said:
Dave-

I've heard all sorts of reasons why wheel landings are preferred................given that a three-point landing allows the plane to touchdown at minimum speed and minimum energy it would take an unusual technique for a wheel landing to result in a shorter rollout distance.

Interesting that all of the pre-war CAA manuals, and WWII military training manuals only mentioned, and pictured, three-point landings...............food for thought. Associates frequently ask me why the current infatuation with wheel landings....................and I honestly haven't the fainest idea.

I'm more than happy to have a short landing contest, my flapless 7GCAA making three-points against...........................any other Citabria, even a flapped GCBC, doing wheel landings.

Tom-
The penalty varies by aircraft. On some, addition of flaps really flattens the pitch attitude for level flight at lower speeds- meaning a wheel landing is possible with only 5 mph additional. Cessna 140 fits this category.

But the real way to handle a humongous crosswind isn't necessarily to do the approach/landing with flying speed (e.g, wheel landing). It's to land into the wind on the grass. That's a really short landing when the headwind component is 30 kts.
 
Bruce-

Wellllllllllllllllllll now we venture into what constitutes a wheel landing, to me it's landing in a level attitude, but to some it's any landing in which the tailwheel is not in contact with the ground when the mains touch. Even with the most efficent flaps it will be impossible to touchdown at three-point +5 in a level attitude with the required vertical rate in any aircraft I've ever flown.

And you are 100% that touching down into the wind is always the best X-wind ldg...................often easy on wide grass, frequently possible to land diagonally on paved runways.

Tom-
 
FYI-

A good rule of thumb is that for every extra 1 MPH of speed you float 100' further down the runway, the same goes for each 1 MPH of tailwind.

Tom-
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
It's a blast but, make sure to schedule the recovery right after the spin ! Hooded spin recoveries too...


LOL! You got me there. I DO definitely plan to schedule spin and recovery training pretty much concurrently.

Jim G
 
Skyport said:
Larry-

I regularly fly my Citabria in winds that keep tri-gears grounded...................and I always do so using a three-point landing.

Tom-
Me, too. Tom and I are on exactly the same page here.
 
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