Tailwheel Training

Very cool Warren! Enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing!
 
Cool video, very nicely done. Now I want one, did a little looking, a little pricier than I would have guessed...
 
TRocket said:
Cool video, very nicely done. Now I want one, did a little looking, a little pricier than I would have guessed...
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Not sure what your price range is, but if you keep looking, decent 170s pop up under $30k from time to time.
 
This is flight number two for those who are interested.


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A tailwheel endorsement. The perfect example of a license to learn.
 
I have no idea!!!!! All I know is there was some nasty crap I had to wash off. Well spotted. I made a slow mo of just that trying to figure it out...


Are you going to Osh?




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Congrats on the 170!!!
The museum I volunteer at has a C-45 (Beech 18). I have only flown in it one time but I am told it is rocket lightly loaded.
 
Awesome video. That was neat seeing the ground loop from inside the airplane. Hopefully I'll be joining the 170 club when I win that stratus aviation foundation 170b raffle in 2 months :D
 
One small benefit to a relatively long life is the wisdom to keep cameras well away from any airplane in which I'm training for anything. The most entertaining airplane videos are invariably those in which someone says either "oops" or "yahoo!"

Good on the OP for posting his. Kids got more moxy than me.
 
steingar said:
One small benefit to a relatively long life is the wisdom to keep cameras well away from any airplane in which I'm training for anything. The most entertaining airplane videos are invariably those in which someone says either "oops" or "yahoo!"

Good on the OP for posting his. Kids got more moxy than me.
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Hahaha. I'm not too proud to share my bad moments, and plus those were some of best landings too :)

I recently flew into a class Bravo for the first time, and completely botched my first landing and had to do a go around. The second one wasn't much better. Don't know if it was nerves or what, but I certainly wasn't on my A game.


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Ronbonjovi said:
Awesome video. That was neat seeing the ground loop from inside the airplane. Hopefully I'll be joining the 170 club when I win that stratus aviation foundation 170b raffle in 2 months :D
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Thanks! I hope you join the 170 club. But not via the stratus foundation, because that's how I'm going to join the double 170 club ;)


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WarrenG said:
I just recently purchased a Cessna 170 and did my endorsement in it. This is a video of my first day of training. Hope you all enjoy.
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Hi Warren, I enjoyed watching your videos. Curious what your instructor is telling you regarding elevator trim on final when you are doing a wheel landing?
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Hi Warren, I enjoyed watching your videos. Curious what your instructor is telling you regarding elevator trim on final when you are doing a wheel landing?
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Glad you enjoyed it. On both wheel and three point landings he wanted me to trim to around 75 MPH, making sure I have no pressure on the yoke. On the wheelers to add a little power just before crossing the threshold to arrest the descent and not pull back on the yoke much, and not to flare, but instead just level out. As the wheels touch to add a little forward pressure on the yoke, and pull out power slowly.


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WarrenG said:
Glad you enjoyed it. On both wheel and three point landings he wanted me to trim to around 75 MPH, making sure I have no pressure on the yoke. On the wheelers to add a little power just before crossing the threshold to arrest the descent and not pull back on the yoke much, and not to flare, but instead just level out. As the wheels touch to add a little forward pressure on the yoke, and pull out power slowly.


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May I make a suggestion that may help you on wheel landings? I have about a 1,000 hours of Cessna 140, 170, 180 & 185 taildragger time and a bit in Champs and soloed a Stinson Gullwing once (big taildragger!).

When landing in conventional gear airplanes the main gear is forward of the center of gravity and it is important to realize that when the mains touch down first the forces of gravity pulling the center of the airplane down naturally increase the wings angle of attack unlike tricycles where gravity works to decrease the angle of attack. As the wings angle of attack increases they generate additional lift and try to lift off. Combining this with the Cessna's steel spring gear which tries to recoil and throw you back upward if your descent rate is too fast, wheel landings can be tricky for the beginner as I am sure you have found. Easier than relying on forward pressure with the yoke at the exact time of the first main wheel touching it is desirable to increase the lift of the tail naturally to counter the gravity pulling the tail down. Too accomplish this fly the last part of final with nose down trim. You will have light to very moderate forces requiring you to pull back on the yoke as you transition to near level flight near touch down. As you hear that first tire bark on the paving or the grass start to brush on the main tire relax the yoke letting the nose forward setting on the trim tab push the elevator down which inceases the lift on the horizontal tail surfaces and counter acts gravity. This will naturally decrease the angle of attack on the wings thereby decreasing lift. Follow up by adding more forward light yoke pressure. I think you will find this more natural and easier to master than judging the right timing to physically having to totally reverse your yoke inputs and push the yoke forward. In short let the bird work for you. Of course this only works for wheel landings and not three points.

Hope I have described this in a way that makes sense?
 
One thing that helped me in taildraggers with sticks was to use my right forearm against my inner right thigh to serve as a "damper". It helped me avoid the onset of bounces, or pilot-induced-oscillations.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
May I make a suggestion that may help you on wheel landings? I have about a 1,000 hours of Cessna 140, 170, 180 & 185 taildragger time and a bit in Champs and soloed a Stinson Gullwing once (big taildragger!).

When landing in conventional gear airplanes the main gear is forward of the center of gravity and it is important to realize that when the mains touch down first the forces of gravity pulling the center of the airplane down naturally increase the wings angle of attack unlike tricycles where gravity works to decrease the angle of attack. As the wings angle of attack increases they generate additional lift and try to lift off. Combining this with the Cessna's steel spring gear which tries to recoil and throw you back upward if your descent rate is too fast, wheel landings can be tricky for the beginner as I am sure you have found. Easier than relying on forward pressure with the yoke at the exact time of the first main wheel touching it is desirable to increase the lift of the tail naturally to counter the gravity pulling the tail down. Too accomplish this fly the last part of final with nose down trim. You will have light to very moderate forces requiring you to pull back on the yoke as you transition to near level flight near touch down. As you hear that first tire bark on the paving or the grass start to brush on the main tire relax the yoke letting the nose forward setting on the trim tab push the elevator down which inceases the lift on the horizontal tail surfaces and counter acts gravity. This will naturally decrease the angle of attack on the wings thereby decreasing lift. Follow up by adding more forward light yoke pressure. I think you will find this more natural and easier to master than judging the right timing to physically having to totally reverse your yoke inputs and push the yoke forward. In short let the bird work for you. Of course this only works for wheel landings and not three points.

Hope I have described this in a way that makes sense?
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This.

This is exactly how I learned to finesse landings in 96V. Have it trimmed so that you relax yoke pressure vs having to push it forward.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
May I make a suggestion that may help you on wheel landings? I have about a 1,000 hours of Cessna 140, 170, 180 & 185 taildragger time and a bit in Champs and soloed a Stinson Gullwing once (big taildragger!).

When landing in conventional gear airplanes the main gear is forward of the center of gravity and it is important to realize that when the mains touch down first the forces of gravity pulling the center of the airplane down naturally increase the wings angle of attack unlike tricycles where gravity works to decrease the angle of attack. As the wings angle of attack increases they generate additional lift and try to lift off. Combining this with the Cessna's steel spring gear which tries to recoil and throw you back upward if your descent rate is too fast, wheel landings can be tricky for the beginner as I am sure you have found. Easier than relying on forward pressure with the yoke at the exact time of the first main wheel touching it is desirable to increase the lift of the tail naturally to counter the gravity pulling the tail down. Too accomplish this fly the last part of final with nose down trim. You will have light to very moderate forces requiring you to pull back on the yoke as you transition to near level flight near touch down. As you hear that first tire bark on the paving or the grass start to brush on the main tire relax the yoke letting the nose forward setting on the trim tab push the elevator down which inceases the lift on the horizontal tail surfaces and counter acts gravity. This will naturally decrease the angle of attack on the wings thereby decreasing lift. Follow up by adding more forward light yoke pressure. I think you will find this more natural and easier to master than judging the right timing to physically having to totally reverse your yoke inputs and push the yoke forward. In short let the bird work for you. Of course this only works for wheel landings and not three points.

Hope I have described this in a way that makes sense?
Click to expand...

One thing I'd like to emphasize with this post is the part about the descent rate. To do a good wheel landing I'd shoot for a near zero rate of descent during the round out and touchdown. Otherwise when you hit the tail will come down and the angle of attack will increase, springing you back up in the air.
 
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Briar Rabbit said:
May I make a suggestion that may help you on wheel landings? I have about a 1,000 hours of Cessna 140, 170, 180 & 185 taildragger time and a bit in Champs and soloed a Stinson Gullwing once (big taildragger!).

When landing in conventional gear airplanes the main gear is forward of the center of gravity and it is important to realize that when the mains touch down first the forces of gravity pulling the center of the airplane down naturally increase the wings angle of attack unlike tricycles where gravity works to decrease the angle of attack. As the wings angle of attack increases they generate additional lift and try to lift off. Combining this with the Cessna's steel spring gear which tries to recoil and throw you back upward if your descent rate is too fast, wheel landings can be tricky for the beginner as I am sure you have found. Easier than relying on forward pressure with the yoke at the exact time of the first main wheel touching it is desirable to increase the lift of the tail naturally to counter the gravity pulling the tail down. Too accomplish this fly the last part of final with nose down trim. You will have light to very moderate forces requiring you to pull back on the yoke as you transition to near level flight near touch down. As you hear that first tire bark on the paving or the grass start to brush on the main tire relax the yoke letting the nose forward setting on the trim tab push the elevator down which inceases the lift on the horizontal tail surfaces and counter acts gravity. This will naturally decrease the angle of attack on the wings thereby decreasing lift. Follow up by adding more forward light yoke pressure. I think you will find this more natural and easier to master than judging the right timing to physically having to totally reverse your yoke inputs and push the yoke forward. In short let the bird work for you. Of course this only works for wheel landings and not three points.

Hope I have described this in a way that makes sense?
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense! You couldn't have explained that any better. Thanks for that, I'll definitely be trying that out on my next flight.


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