Tailwheel Endorsement

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Mtns2Skies, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Well, after 6.9 hours in the Citabria 7KCAB I have my endorsement. I am more proud of this than I was getting my PPL. At 10 hours I will be able to fly it without an instructor. It certainly makes my stick and rudder skills a whole league better. Just yesterday I flew in a Cessna 150 with a friend and boy do I not miss tricycle gear planes! It's too easy! If I never fly a tricycle gear plane again I will be happy :lol:
     
  2. JasonCT

    JasonCT Pattern Altitude

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    Woohoo well done! Welcome to the world of planes without training wheels :)
     
  3. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well done. I took a lesson in one shortly after my PPL. Centerline seating and acro rocks. Got to loop it first lesson.
     
  4. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No matter what you fly you'll appreciate the lessons learned during TW training. It's not a magic wand, but helps reinforce some concepts that can be handy in any plane. Congrats on learning to drag your butt around the airport!
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Filing Flight Plan

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    If you get time in a Champ, you'll truly understand the meaning of adverse yaw. Something that is very difficult to demonstrate an master in a Cessna 152.
     
  6. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    citabria = champ with 150hp... more or less... but yes gobs of adverse yaw
     
  7. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    I'll take you out in a Grob 103 and you will learn rudder and adverse yaw, without the interference of propellor P factor.

    Tailwheel will improve your flying, crosswind sensing and control, but gliders will add to your sensing what the air, and airplane are doing.
     
  8. Hiperbiper

    Hiperbiper Line Up and Wait

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    Congrats on your tailwheel endorsement! :yes: ! Learning what the little pedals on the floor are for was/is one of the best investments in fun any pilot can do. Unfortunetly I have found there is one fly in the ointment...:yikes::
    I get very little time (1-to-10 hrs) in anything with a nosewheel but when I do I find my "Happy Feet" I need for my taildragger flying results in the first part of my nosedragger takeoff roll resembling a drunk on iceskates...:mad2:. I'm not sayin' it will happen to you...just something to think about!

    I guess I just need to stop flying anything unless it has the third wheel in the proper place.

    Chris
     
  9. Tony_Fletcher

    Tony_Fletcher Pre-Flight

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    Congrats! I've been chipping away on the same endorsement in a Citabria with a great instructor.

    I think "conventional" gear should be part of the PPL training. Also the ability to spin the Citabria and simulate stall-to-spin scenarios should definitely be part of primary training. So much more beneficial than talking about spins.
     
  10. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Yeah the instructor I have is pretty legendary around these parts so I'm quite happy to be flying with him.
    Yeah this instructor said that if he were designated in charge of the FAA he would make it mandatory that all pilots start on gliders then move into something tail wheel like a cub then do aerobatic training. I also did spins and the chandelle as it was supposed to be done in WWI... tons of fun. If I only fly the Citabria until I die... I will have died happy.
     
  11. ajstoner21

    ajstoner21 Cleared for Takeoff

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    This is one endorsement I want to get, but must haven't had the chance. Maybe I'll do it along with my BFR. (I did my high performance the same time as my BFR last time).

    For now, I suppose a nose-dragger will do. :p
     
  12. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    This has been on my "want to do" list since I started flying. Unfortunately, it just hasn't happened yet. Much of that was due to lack of any tailwheel aircraft at my previous airport or the surrounding area. Where we live now, there are some tailwheel aircraft for rent/training, but it's over an hour drive away. Well, maybe one day.

    Good job. :)
     
  13. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    :yeahthat:

    Busy feet are happy feet!
     
  14. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    But you can spot a good TW pilot by how UN-busy their feet are.
     
  15. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Please elaborate?
     
  16. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Yep. Not that I have a lot of TW hours, and I'm far from an expert, but after several flights with my CFI, I was definately smoother and made finer rudder inputs in a timely manner. Much less swerving and zigzagging across the centerline :rofl:

    I really wanna get more flights in with him this year, but it's an hour and a half drive from my house to Brookhaven airport (HWV) :yikes:

    I normally fly out of Republic (FRG), which is about a thirty min drive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  17. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    For me, the best thing was when I started making consistently decent wheel landings! That's a blast. My first few attempts looked like a kangaroo hopping all over the runway:rofl:.

    Did a lot of touch touch and goes:goofy::D

    Count me among those that wish I had learned to fly a taildragger before a nosedragger :yes:.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  18. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It probably would have been easier.

    But you learn bad habits if you start in a tailwheel - like looking outside instead of monitoring airspeed and other instruments during takeoff.
     
  19. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I thought TW landings were much easier than takeoffs. I did not like pushing that prop closer to the ground. This caused the airplane to try and liftoff early and start dancing on the mains.
     
  20. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    :confused:

    That is a bad thing?

    :dunno:
     
  21. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    When pilots first learn tailwheel, they typically overcontrol with big slow, poorly-timed rudder inputs. And if they come from trikes, their instructor may try to get them to have "happy feet". I don't like that term, as it suggests you must constantly flap the rudder around. I think it's something instructors say to get them moving, since they likely have "dead feet" from flying trikes.

    Anyway, as you get better, your big, slow, poorly timed inputs become quicker and smaller. Eventually they become miniscule...almost nonexistent. You can do a dead straight takeoff with virtually zero rudder movement...just a little anticipated pressure at the right times. Same for the landing roll. If you put it down straight, you can rollout dead straight by making almost non-existent rudder inputs. Takes practice and experience. That's what I mean by spotting a good TW pilot by how little their feet/rudder move. If you see a lot of big rudder inputs flapping back-and-forth on takeoff or landing, that's fairly clumsy technique.

    And then you have the pilots who constantly flap the rudder back and forth even when they're rolling dead straight...just because they think a TW airplane requires "happy feet" all the time. Never understood that. It's completely unnecessary and is far from artful technique.

    You missed the sarcasm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  22. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    I've seen that. It wears out rudder hinges, rudder cable attachments, steering spring links and tailwheel tires. Totally unnecessary.

    Dan
     
  23. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    Nope. It's not in human nature to be permanently satisfied. You'll want to try a 185 next. The Citabria is tame in comparison. And then a Christen Eagle or Pitts.

    Dan
     
  24. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I seem to recall a thread where someone reported taking off from a very narrow runway in a taildragger and didn't notice that the ASI was not indicating untill after liftoff. Quite a few people were on him like flies on horse droppings for being such a poor pilot.
     
  25. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Yeah... I certainly would like to fly a Maule... but until I really have the citabria down well (it'll be a looong while) I'm quite happy in it. Aerobatics, while fun, isn't really what I'm striving for.
    I don't see what is so bad about that? When sitting in the back the CFI covered the ASI... I didn't care I didn't need it to fly the plane and had not been looking at it for the entirety of the flight.
     
  26. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Congratulations!

    Ryan
     
  27. bajadrifter

    bajadrifter Filing Flight Plan

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    I had 500 hours before I every tried flying a taildragger. I can still remember my first taildragger takeoff...as soon as I lifted the tail the plane was headed for the soybeans!:hairraise: I had to learn what the rudder pedals were used for!

    One of the best things to come from learning "tailwheel" was my introduction to Citabria airplanes. These things are a BLAST! After my endorsement I promptly went to Rochester Wisconsin and bought one.

    I wish I had learned to fly in a Citabria instead of a C150.
     
  28. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Me too! Would have been same price too if not for the drive.
     
  29. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  30. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    What? He didn't call out rotation to himself?!? OMG
     
  31. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Hey in a taildragger, rotation is the opposite.

    I went through a few phases.

    0-15 hours, slow overcorrections

    15-30 hours "happy feet"
    I'd screw up perfectly straight rollouts

    Somewhere around 30hrs I got it down. Putting a lot less wear on the tires and TW steering these days.

    I had a good TW instructor and some quality NCFI (non certified flight instructor) TW hours with eric (whifferdill)
     
  32. whifferdill

    whifferdill Line Up and Wait

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    That was a good one! I used to fly my Pitts from a 35' wide paved runway and will freely admit not checking the ASI for life during the 5 second takeoff run where I could just barely see slivers of the runway on both sides. I find landing without ASI an extreme non-event, so I'll take that over distraction in a Pitts on a narrow runway during the T/O roll. In a 172, during the T/O roll you can check the ASI several times, fiddle with the GPS, finish texting, trim your toenails...whatever. Maybe I'm horribly deficient, but I can't remember the last time I looked at the ASI during the T/O roll in a taildragger. But then I don't "rotate"...just let it fly off on its own when it's ready.

    -Dangerboy
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  33. whifferdill

    whifferdill Line Up and Wait

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    We only sat there while the airplane was telling you everything you were doing wrong. :) You fly the Cub really sweet now!
     
  34. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    If you ever do you'll find the Citabria is a lot more fun than a Maule and a bit more comfortable.
     
  35. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Oh? In what way?
     
  36. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Though I understand its theoretical usefulness as a piece of required equipment, in VFR, in my airplane, the AI mostly functions as something for me to cuss during the cruise phase. I don't find it all useful during takeoff or landing and seldom look at it ;)
     
  37. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Fyi i've had exactly three moments where i've got behind the plane enough to basically have to throw my hands up and say 'help!'

    Two of those were during primary training with sub 15 hours of experience and the third was 200+ hours later and learning to fly the cub with you. I'm sure you know exactly what i'm talking about too!

    One important thing I've learned through many ugly taildragger landings is that you can swerve like lindsay lohan's porsche but still make a safe landing if you keep the stick back and stay on the rudder.
     
  38. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    Well first off you can't beat sitting in the middle with a stick and the visibility for the pilot of a Champ or Citabria is probably among the best out there for a high wing.

    The Maule is a decent airplane but, like the Citabria, it's not a sophisticated airplane and has gobs of adverse yaw that is offset somewhat by a rudder servo tab inter-connect. It's a heavier airplane and flys more like a pick-up truck, which is somewhat analogous to it's design purpose. You just can't throw it around like a Citabria or - to be closer in mission intent, a Scout. With two people in front there's not much spare elbow room and the co-pilot has to keep his legs and feet in a specific position to avoid conflict with the yoke and pedals.

    I've spent plenty of x-country hours in an M7, coast to coast, Oshkosh, Alaska and back, hung out with the Maule enthusiasts at back-country strips in Idaho and Montana and did my seaplane training in a Maule. It's a capable airplane that can haul two guys and just about anything they'd want to bring along with them to just about anywhere.

    But a Champ, Citabria or Cub is still just more fun to fly.
     
  39. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it! I suppose a Scout is what I want afterall.
     
  40. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I did make a point of looking to see what speed I lift off at once, but I have since forgotten what it was.

    My little LSA is easy enough that I can glance down without worry, but often I forget - it's just not how I learned how to fly in the first place. Priority one was keeping the airplane between the runway lights. There was no priority two.