Taildraggers

J

jlwilson

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Joyce
Hi all! Last week I had too much fun in Burnet, TX getting my taildragger endorsement! Now, I want one. Only problem is that I don't know enough about taildraggers to know what I want. I'd like to get something not too expensive (50-75k), that I can fly around the ranch in TX and land in the cow pastures. I don't care how much instrumentation it has per se as I want something to continue my learning quest in. I'm open to all suggestions and bits of knowledge that you all can impart to me!

Thanks!
 
How fast do you need to go, and how many people do you need to carry?

Something like my little LSA (Merlin GT) or, a Highlander (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEpHZp-Ra8), will get you in and out of a few hundred feet for the minimum price, but will be pretty slow and won't carry much.
(Note: Friends don't let friends fly behind two stroke engines.)

Super Cubs cost a bit more but will haul more weight...

A Cessna 180/185 will carry a lot more and be a lot faster.
 
How big are you? Many potential taildraggers were designed when the average pilot was 5'6" and weighed 150 lbs. If you're not "Plus Sized" there is a wide variety of older airplanes that might fit the bill. A favorite two place is a Cessna 140, but there are Champs, Stinsons, Cubs, Luscombs, and several more, most of which can be had for significantly less than your budget.
 
P-51 Mustang would work.


:D

Seriously, the list that gismo presented is where I'd start. C-140 would be good for tooling around the ranch.
 
I'm 5'4, 115lbs :wink2: and at this point don't really care how fast I go or have the need to carry a lot of weight. My husband actually thinks we need a Maule, but I want something to learn with for a year or two and then move up to a bigger, faster plane. I have a 2000 C182 that we'll keep for the real traveling, so this is more of something to play with at the ranch. Maybe take a friend up and do a little picture taking or let my husband spot the newest quarry of hogs on the property. I'm more interested in tundra tires and VGs so that I can literally land in a cow pasture. We'll do an improved grass strip, but we have lots of pasture areas and roads that would be well suitable for landing. After I got to land on an island in one of the lakes around Burnet, I know that you don't need a whole lot of improvement if you're slow, careful and have the right tires, struts, etc. I did the training in a Super Cub which I really loved, but thought I should explore other options as well.

Thanks for the info!!!

Joyce
 
I've been very happy with my Aeronca Chief -- inexpensive to buy, fly, and maintain (with a little help from a friendly A&P)

It's the perfect low and slow, low tech flivver.

Of course, if you want tandem seating, the Champ is a good choice.

Either can be up-engined to get real short field performance.

:thumbsup:
 
jlwilson said:
I'm 5'4, 115lbs :wink2: and at this point don't really care how fast I go or have the need to carry a lot of weight. My husband actually thinks we need a Maule, but I want something to learn with for a year or two and then move up to a bigger, faster plane. I have a 2000 C182 that we'll keep for the real traveling, so this is more of something to play with at the ranch. Maybe take a friend up and do a little picture taking or let my husband spot the newest quarry of hogs on the property. I'm more interested in tundra tires and VGs so that I can literally land in a cow pasture. We'll do an improved grass strip, but we have lots of pasture areas and roads that would be well suitable for landing. After I got to land on an island in one of the lakes around Burnet, I know that you don't need a whole lot of improvement if you're slow, careful and have the right tires, struts, etc. I did the training in a Super Cub which I really loved, but thought I should explore other options as well.

Thanks for the info!!!

Joyce
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If you want to get off the ground in 100 ft you need something with augmented lift and a fair amount of HP but if you can live with 300-500 ft that's not needed. I'm not sure which planes can be equipped with tundra tires though, if that's needed.
 
Lots of choices for ranch work. The two-seat tandem airplanes are great for visibility, dirt-simple to maintain and well-configured for shooting coyotes and other critters.

Anything with an O-200 (~100 hp) or more will provide all the power you need to fly yourself and somebody else around for a while, if you get a full wing-span version like a cub or champ. Some of them are a bit difficult to mount, especially the front seat of the cub types, but being able to fly with the door open can more than offset those disadvantages.

Supercubs are in your price range and have held their value extremely well over the years, and have electrical systems and other things you will like.
 
There are a bunch of fun tailwheel airplanes to choose from. Citabria's are great. Aerobatic, ok speed and power, strong and easy to fly.
 
Thanks guys! I think I want tandem seating only because it gives the best view off both sides. I don't need super short t/o or landing abilities - 3-500 is fine. The hard part is that there are too many choices :), but that's better than no choices. If anyone hears of anything for sale, please let me know. I'm definitely open to looking at everything.
 
If you're really wanting to do off-airport landings, I'd suggest a PA-18 with bush wheels.
 
Here is a link to a Citabria Scout on Barnstormers that might fit the bill:

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_495253_Scout.html

.watermarked_3c8d78d8c163c1fac6c5234b6507734e.jpg
 
Scout would be a good bet. Citabrias tend to have a rather limited useful load. Maules are small inside and are fairly roughly built. A 180 would be nice but they'll cost considerably more to operate. There doesn't seem to be a decent side-by-side two-place taildragger made anymore. A well-made Glastar (taildragger version) would work, though. Should be some around. They fly much like a small 185 and have good STOL and cruise characteristics.

Dan
 
jlwilson said:
Hi all! Last week I had too much fun in Burnet, TX getting my taildragger endorsement! Now, I want one. Only problem is that I don't know enough about taildraggers to know what I want. I'd like to get something not too expensive (50-75k), that I can fly around the ranch in TX and land in the cow pastures. I don't care how much instrumentation it has per se as I want something to continue my learning quest in. I'm open to all suggestions and bits of knowledge that you all can impart to me!

Thanks!
Click to expand...

C-170-B 52-57
 

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Citabrias tend to have a rather limited useful load.
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Hey Dan, she only weighs 115 lbs (unlike some of us -- me for example!).
 
I really wish I could get a Stinson right about now... A Voyager is a true four-seat airplane. Needs about 1000' of runway, but we've got that at our ranch.

Ryan
 
RyanShort1 said:
I really wish I could get a Stinson right about now... A Voyager is a true four-seat airplane. Needs about 1000' of runway, but we've got that at our ranch.

Ryan
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ever try to support the Franklin?
 
No, I haven't... but would strongly consider getting a 337 for a Lycoming. The L-5 I fly is a great plane, and the other Stinson's I've flown were all good.

Ryan
 
RyanShort1 said:
No, I haven't... but would strongly consider getting a 337 for a Lycoming. The L-5 I fly is a great plane, and the other Stinson's I've flown were all good.

Ryan
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If you are going to do that, just buy the Maule M7 235
 
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Up-engined Champ.
J5 Cub (J3 for that matter)
C120/140
Chief
J4
Some of the two place LSAs out now are nice.


Everything else is too much airplane for someone who has a 182 in the hangar for real travel.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Up-engined Champ.
J5 Cub (J3 for that matter)
C120/140
Chief
J4
Some of the two place LSAs out now are nice.


Everything else is too much airplane for someone who has a 182 in the hangar for real travel.
Click to expand...

Or, swap the 182 for a 185 and eliminate the problems with care and feeding of a nosewheel.
 
Awesome guys! Thanks so much for the information! Now I know what to start looking for. And the hard part is trying to find a good deal on a really solid plane. If anyone hears of something, please let me know. I know all the usual sources are good places to start, but I also know that many really good deals are found outside of traditional resources.

Eventually we're going to upgrade the 182 to something along the lines of an A36TC, but I don't want to do anything until after next years Air Race Classic.
 
Tom-D said:
If you are going to do that, just buy the Maule M7 235
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Not a classic '40s aircraft. Doesn't fit the "image" I would prefer to convey to my customers. The Cub has the classic lines, and is the preferred aircraft, except that it doesn't carry my 265 lb. prospective customers, even with me at a light 150 and marginal gas... but yeah, a Maule would be nice. I also think Stinsons look a sight better...

Ryan
 
RyanShort1 said:
Not a classic '40s aircraft. Doesn't fit the "image" I would prefer to convey to my customers. The Cub has the classic lines, and is the preferred aircraft, except that it doesn't carry my 265 lb. prospective customers, even with me at a light 150 and marginal gas... but yeah, a Maule would be nice. I also think Stinsons look a sight better...

Ryan
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Look up the Aeronca Champ -- the design goals were "Don't make the same mistakes as Piper."
 
RyanShort1 said:
Not a classic '40s aircraft. Doesn't fit the "image" I would prefer to convey to my customers. The Cub has the classic lines, and is the preferred aircraft, except that it doesn't carry my 265 lb. prospective customers, even with me at a light 150 and marginal gas... but yeah, a Maule would be nice. I also think Stinsons look a sight better...

Ryan
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Here are a couple of taildraggers that have that classic look and won't much mind about your 265 lb customers. The first two are well out of your target price range but the third could fit, except for its fuel consumption.

dehavilland_DHC2beaver.jpg

otter.jpg


DSC_0114%20An-2%20N2AN%20Big%20Panda%20right%20front%20taxiing%20l.jpg


Well, you did ask for suggestions...

Dan
 

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That's a pretty airplane.

Right now I'm saving up for maybe 8 months to a year or so before making any decisions since I want to buy one outright and debt free - even if it needs some work. If I had about 9K more in the bank right now (so I'd have some reserves for insurance, repairs, and early-onset maintenance) I'd probably have sprung for this plane even thought it needs a lot of TLC... http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_487995_1939+Stinson+HW75+3+seater.html In fact, if I could get some sort of lease-to-own situation, where I could at least walk away debt free if I couldn't pay for it, I'd probably consider it, or something like it. It looks pretty much like exactly the kind of plane I'd want. Something relatively cheap to insure, tough enough for a well-taught student, capable of taking a student all the way through private, and classic enough to take to an airshow. I'm also looking at a local Citabria for a leaseback, but it hasn't worked out just yet.
Most of the Stinsons out there are also in a price range I figure I could attain in the near future.

Ryan
 
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Maule... Cessna 180 or 185.. or if you want to go on the lighter weight end of the new scale, an Experimental... Rans S-7.

Or build a sportsman 2+2.
 
Joyce, I'm excited for you that you're going to get a taildragger. :yes:

Super Cubs are great, as you found out. :yes:

The Highlander is a neat little airplane and I would love to fly one. Here is a video of one that a friend (Greg) of a friend (John) flies alongside when he flies around Ohio.

http://vimeo.com/17193538

Here is a video of Greg about getting his tires for his Higlander:

http://www.vimeo.com/16561627

John has a Scout with fat tires. I flew to his farm in Ohio a few years ago and he took me on a grass strip tour of Ohio for half a day in his Scout along with another Scout. We landed at places that I would never land at in my Citabria...it was a fantastic day of flying.

A lady by the name of Lynn Gardner built a Highlander and has flown it around the country. I think she may have also flown it to Alaska. Here is a video of her landing at Mile High:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-7ALKBghg8

She also made a video of her landing at Gaston's and following the White River.

Here is an article about her:

http://www.afwdigital.org/afw/20080910?pg=29#pg29

And then there's the famous video of the song about fat tires and vortex generators and Super Cubs.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24099

:D

If you are considering a Citabria for flying around your ranch, I would get the version that has 150 HP and flaps. And you can still do some aerobatics with a Citabria if you're in the mood for that kind of thing. ;)
 
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