Taildraggers

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by ChemGuy, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Are a pain to fly...but fun.

    If you've never flown one I encourage you to go do it. They really show you how to fly right near the ground and really control the aircraft.

    If you're around SW MI hit me up for a great guy and you can fly this for cheap...

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Hope to try one out soo er than later. They say you can’t be a true pilot ,if you’ve never flown a taildragger.
     
  3. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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    I used to say the same about a helicopter...
     
  4. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    Real pilots fly sailplanes IMHO, but real airplane pilots are tailwheel capable.

    I always thought it was kinda cool that some pilots sitting in the left seat of some Boeing behemoth may not be able to get my Maule gracefully across the ramp.


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  5. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Everytime I hear someone say something like this I can only imagine that the speaker didn't have a very good primary instructor....:eek:;)

    I have flown a couple tail wheel airplanes, never had a lesson, and I found no difference in rudder use. if you don't know how to use a rudder in a nose wheel plane then you won't know how to use one on a tail wheel plane, and Vice versa.


    Who says that.?? (besides the person that owns a pristine C-195...)
     
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  6. AA5Bman

    AA5Bman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I choose to fly tricycle, but only because I find the taildragger crowd insufferable hahahaha!! But seriously...
     
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  7. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    I've never found taildraggers to be a "pain" to fly. Slightly more demanding of good piloting technique, but that just makes it more satisfying. And the most interesting airplanes (to me) all tend to have tailwheels.
     
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  8. ilpilot

    ilpilot Filing Flight Plan

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    PMed you about flying in SW Michigan. Thanks!
     
  9. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    As an experiment, I took one of my post-solo students who had only C-150 time and put him in a 1946 C-120 and told him to make normal, full stall landings. I didn't tell him to do anything special, but he would need to look at the wing tip for runway alignment.

    Since I always trained everyone to always make full-stall, full stop landings, he had no issues at all and unconsciously made all the needed rudder inputs!

    Wheel landings kinda freaked him out, but he adapted after the first one...
     
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  10. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Yeah, I'm training a guy in a 150 now who hopes to fly tailwheel in the future. I personally think that when we're done he'll transition just fine.
     
  11. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’d love to own one. I did my IFR training in a Cessna 140, and I enjoyed it a lot. I have yet to try something with a stick and big tires though.
     
  12. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    Absolutely wrong. The beauty of tailwheel airplanes is that the AIRPLANE lets you know in uncertain terms that you're being sloppy. Trikes let you get away with a multitude of sins as the instructor tries their best to beat into you lessons that are not made obvious according to what the airplane is telling you. Which do you think drives home the lesson better? ;) Precision is mandatory in tailwheels, and optional in trikes LOL
     
  13. Bobanna

    Bobanna Pre-takeoff checklist

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  14. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Look at the wingtip?

    Also why no touch and goes?
     
  15. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No argument from me, except precision is mandatory in all airplanes, not just certain ones and I will accept nothing less. I haven't flown a plane yet that didn't give notice to bad practices.

    Maybe I hold myself to a higher standard since when I fly I carry passengers that pay for the ride. I know my instructors held me and themselves to a higher standards of flying and didn't accept anything less, and I am so thankful for that.

    And the few tail wheel flights I have done, I really didn't notice anything majorly different, except how the plane settled down onto the runway. I did what was necessary to land at the correct airspeed, did what I needed to do to hit my intended touch down point and did what I needed to do in the cross wind to land straight, same as I would do in a nose wheel plane.
     
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  16. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    Sure, there is always notice, but the the trike shrugging at massive side load on landing before tracking straight down the runway is a little different from heading straight toward the weeds. In my experience the average trike pilot is lazier with drift and alignment precision, because they can be. The point here is that the tailwheel airplane slaps you in the face. I just disagreed with you assumption that any newbie tailwheel pilot who points this out must have had a bad primary instructor. Not true at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  17. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Id agree with Roscoe and Zeldman on a couple points.
    Yes we should always strive to have really good alignment, proper attitude, speed etc on every landing whether trike or tail. But its easy to get a little sloppy and suffer no consequences. Fly a taildragger that way and you wont be flying it long.

    So thats the pain part of them...being much more careful and precise on the landings....which is what we should do anyway. A taildragger is like a pain in the ass boss watching your landings (and takeoffs) and smacking you if you get too far out of line.
     
  18. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    I’m working on my tailwheel endorsement in a champ (Instructor said I’m proficient as of my last lesson but I need another 1.5 hours before I can solo the club plane for insurance). I actually thought the pavement landings (winds were 10G15 @ 45 degrees ) were easier than grass with a giant centerline to see. I never had any problem with 3 points but wheel landings have taken some getting used to.

    There are just some things that feel unnatural about moving the stick forward instead of easing it back after the wheels touch!

    I think my biggest opportunity for improvement is ground handling and getting more comfortable with locking/unlocking the tailwheel and using the heel brakes in coordination with rudder.
     
  19. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Yea, I wanted to be a real pilot so I got my time in the Citabria... then I was told you're not a real pilot if you're plane wheels don't fold... The real pilot is a mystery it appears
     
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  20. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Pattern Altitude

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    I’m confused in this as well, especially the wingtip comment.
     
  21. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ok, that might have been not a good way to express what I was trying to say. Let me see if I can clarify a little. What my meaning is I hear too many new tail wheel pilots say something like, a) I never knew what the rudder was for until I flew a tail wheel plane, or b) nose wheel pilots don't know how to use a rudder. I find statements like that a little disappointing and wonder if the speaker ever really learned how to use the rudder during landings in the first place.

    Ercoupe pilots are excused..:lol:

    Maybe because I just find that flying a tail wheel takes no special skill over flying a nose wheel making statements like above so strange to me. Same as flying with a stick for the first time. After a few seconds it was as if I had always flown with a stick.

    Just to further clarify, yes I know there are pilots flying both types of planes that get lax in rudder use and airspeed control. Most get away with it.

    Sort of like the first time I flew a ski plane and landed on the snow. No matter how hard I pressed on the brakes that plane would not stop...:lol::lol: (and it was a tail ski plane)
     
  22. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That sounds like a blast.!!
     
  23. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Eff those heel brakes....I had a couple of whoah nelly moments when trying to get on the brakes and keep the plane straight. Glad my mini max has a single stick mounted brake lever.

    Who ever invented those heel brakes needs to be exhumed shot and buried again...:D
     
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  24. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    You are not supposed to have to use them. All they should be used for is the pre-departure runup.;)
     
  25. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    I've never heard anyone say nose wheel pilots don't know how to use the rudder, but it's totally true that many pilots who learn tailwheel really learn rudder skill in a way they never had before. Lots of common tailwheel trainers like Cubs, Champs, and Citabrias have massive amounts of adverse yaw, and it really forces you to learn good rudder skill unless you want to slide all over the place in your seat. You may want to deny it, but lots of trike pilots have fairly weak rudder skills because the airplanes they learned in and fly (i.e. Cherokee/Warrior types) just don't require much rudder skill. In a perfect world, trikes would instill the same rudder skills as taildraggers, but the reality is different. What I think is disappointing is those who have little or no experience with tailwheel flying dismissing its potential value. It's not much different than all the folks with little or no experience with spins who dismiss the value of spin training.
     
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  26. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    land it hard enough and any planes wheels can fold...........
     
  27. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    i did most of my instructing time in tailwheel aircraft south of dallas. so i spent a lot of time teaching people who burn kerosene for a living how to fly a tailwheel. talk about a group that don't know how to use rudder pedals........
     
  28. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yup, the plane I soloed/PPLed in had them, they were pretty weak anyways, but worked for what I needed them for. Heel brakes, toe brakes, meh all the same.
     
  29. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    I’ll be happy when I get to the point where I can say the same thing!
     
  30. deyoung

    deyoung Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "You can't be a true pilot if you've never flown [... whatever it is that I fly...]"

    :)
     
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  31. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Runway alignment and centering. The 120/140 has zero forward visibility in the landing attitude unless you are seven feet tall (I wouldn't know). Keep the wing 90 degrees to the runway edge and you will touch down lined up with the centerline, or at least parallel.

    Where else would you look?
     
  32. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    You actually teach this???

    Umm straight ahead like everyone else who flies tailwheel airplanes that have much worse forward visibility than a 120/140.
     
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  33. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Easy solution: go fly a tail wheel retract.

    But if your goal is to be a REAL pilot, then you need to go fly a multi engine, tailwheel, retractable, seaplane.

    If I ever get a chance to fly a Goose, then I figure I can call myself a real pilot....
     
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  34. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    FTFY. ;)
     
  35. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    ^^^This.

    The Cessna 150s I learned to fly in had Frise, differential ailerons. Much of the adverse yaw had been engineered out of them. You can keep your feet flat on the floor and still have to work hard to get the ball more than 1/2 width off center in a roll.
    The Husky is a different animal, with neither. If you aren't on the rudder as you start to move the stick sideways into a roll, the nose is going to yaw the other way, immediately and sometimes dramatically. This is unrelated to where the third wheel is located and, imo, is a bigger issue that requires and teaches effective rudder technique than keeping the plane aligned on approach and touchdown.
     
  36. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    And my old Maule could be flown hands-off but feet on the rudders, for long cross country legs. Anytime a plane has interlinked the ailerons to a rudder tab to counter adverse yaw, and that still has a tremendous about of adverse yaw, you learn to use the rudder - TW or Trike. But it’s only the TW that will hurt you for screwing it up.


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  37. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    just put the 18 on amphibs.............................
     
  38. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Pattern Altitude

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    You need to check the seat cushions. I'm about 5'11" and I never had trouble seeing over the cowling in my 140 for landing or taxi. I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously, you should be able to see over the cowling in a 120/140, Luscombe, etc. Otherwise you would see them all doing S-turns when taxiing.

    Even when landing a Pitts, which has no forward visibility, I would slip, then straighten out and use my peripheral vision... never looked at the wingtip. I've never heard anyone describe your style and I would warn against teaching it.
     
  39. RoscoeT

    RoscoeT Cleared for Takeoff

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    Anyone thinking they need to look at the wingtip for alignment during landing due to reduced forward vis clearly must also keep looking at the wingtip during the entire 3-point landing rollout. Truly weird advice. Try that in a Pitts S-1 and see how many seconds you last before losing it LOL
     
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  40. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    A few flights in a Schweitzer 2-33 will teach you to use the rudder pedals, and as a bonus, a whole lot about energy management.