Taildraggers - What's the big whoop?

Okay, the MOST important reason that nobody has brought up is that with the right wheels, a taildragger is absolutely the best configuration for off field landings, rough terrain, etc.
 
I have about 1,500 tailwheel hours, much of it instructing.

People sought out my "Tailwheel Transition Course" for any variety of expressed reasons, but I suspect most were for the same reason I sought out that J3 at Homestead General so many years ago - the challenge.

That said, I can't help but think it makes one a better pilot. But of course I'm a bit prejudiced!

The skill did score me some lucrative ferry flights ferrying these puppies to the Caribbean and S. America!

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As an aside, some of my easiest transitions were fresh private pilots who were still skilled at full stall landings - all they had to do was learn how to use their feet. And some of the hardest were higher time pilots who seemed to have lost the skill of finding the ground in a full stall and had to relearn it - almost from scratch it seemed.
 
RoscoeT said:
He prefers RV tricycle gear on rough fields? Hmmm...

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That's not even a rough field. Looks like I could almost putt on that. The driver simply got lazy on the soft field landing and released back pressure way too soon. Strictly pilot error on that one I say.
 
docmirror said:
The driver simply got lazy on the soft field landing and released back pressure way too soon. Strictly pilot error on that one I say.
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Nope. Here's the pic just before the pole vault. Note elevator position.

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You never stop flying a taildragger. From chock to chock.

There's an art even to taxiing in bad wind. You fly/taxi away from the wind.

And the lazy crab and kick method the nose dragger's get away with won't work always in a TD. You drop wing and hold center with rudder in a bad X-wind on short final. If you can't hold, you won't hold it on the ground.
 
F01LA said:
Good stuff right there. That's what I'd want the tailwheel for, and I love watching videos like this. Don't count nosedraggers out of the backcountry completely though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3DpS4r_0_Q
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Cool! At 19 seconds you can actually see the value of the plane depreciate. That's how it's meant to be done! None of this sitting in a hanger looking pretty junk! :)
 
BobThePilot said:
Okay, the MOST important reason that nobody has brought up is that with the right wheels, a taildragger is absolutely the best configuration for off field landings, rough terrain, etc.
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I'll take a Katmai any day.
 
RoscoeT said:
Nope. Here's the pic just before the pole vault. Note elevator position.
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I think the nosewheel broke off in that instance and the leg dug in and flipped it.

But trikes can and do nose over when the ground is too soft or rough. When the drag starts increasing on the nosewheel, the weight of the airplane shifts onto it and forces it in deeper and things get out of hand in an instant. One guy told me of a 172 that landed at a farm to attend an auction, and the ground was a bit muddy. The airplane touched down and was on its back in a second or two, mud flying everywhere. That nosewheel acts like a vaulting pole.

The taildragger, on soft ground like that, can make a successful landing if the pilot knows what he's doing. Minimum touchdown speed, three point. The weight is divided between two larger tires rather than one smaller one, and it's manageable. The CG being much closer over the mains also reduces the pole-vaulting tendency.

I used to teach taildragger flying. Students that had learned in a trike took as long to solo the taildragger as the zero-time guys that started in the taildragger. The trike pilots that got the taildragger mastered became better trike pilots too, we noticed. No more crabbing touchdowns or neutralizing the ailerons after a crosswind touchdown and so on. They learned to fly the airplane until it was parked.

Dan
 
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Henning said:
For full disclosure, how about posting the pictures of the results of your last landing in it?
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What would that have to do with this discussion?

A stuck brake is a stuck brake, I'd like to see anyone on this page try to over come one. (In a F-24) yes even you.
 
Tom-D said:
What would that have to do with this discussion?

A stuck brake is a stuck brake, I'd like to see anyone on this page try to over come one. (In a F-24) yes even you.
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Would the same result have come about in a tricycle?
 
Henning said:
Would the same result have come about in a tricycle?
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Probably. wouldn't be much different than running off the runway for any other reason, many trikes do.

OBTW the 24 is flying again in Italy.
 
Here's the big whoop. Go get yourself a ride in a Stearman. If you have never flown one and you are allowed to try a landing, you will definately see what a whoop it is. Or....try an aeronca champ. If you can land either and do a good job, a tri gear is a snap. Or..... Go to the ohio bush plane site and see if you'd want to join them in their many adventures in say a 150 Cessna. Whoop indeed!
 
Tom-D said:
Probably. wouldn't be much different than running off the runway for any other reason, many trikes do.

OBTW the 24 is flying again in Italy.
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Lock up the other brake and you blow out a couple tires, end of story, and that's the primary difference, when things go wrong on a landing with a tail wheel, it gets real expensive real fast.

I have nothing particularly against them almost half my time is with a tail wheel, but unless I have a utility reason for one, I'll pass.
 
The "whoop" is the fun factor. There aren't many choices for two seat tandem with a stick in tri-gear format but yes - it is over-hyped. When I learned to fly we were all using Cubs or Champs but they were already on their way out and it was the manufacturers who were doing most of the bad-mouthing as they wanted everyone to buy their new modern ships with tricycle gear and steering wheels.

As for the "making you a better pilot" myth, maybe it would sharpen up the attention focus of an otherwise marginal airman but really, there is so much more to aviating than mastering one's backwards shopping cart control skills and I've met plenty of lousy taildragger pilots in my days. Probably the most irritating thing is when a nosedragger pilot gets a tailwheel "endorsement" (didn't used to be any) and makes it out like he's had an epiphany of some sort. I mean, it's really not that big of a deal.

As for nosing over, well taildraggers do it too. They've got better soft and rough field abilities but don't think they are immune to it.

And finally, as to Tom's crack up: you guys know how many planes Jimmy Doolittle cracked up? Would you have given him a hard time about it? :rolleyes:
 
Silvaire said:
The "whoop" is the fun factor. There aren't many choices for two seat tandem with a stick in tri-gear format but yes - it is over-hyped. When I learned to fly we were all using Cubs or Champs but they were already on their way out and it was the manufacturers who were doing most of the bad-mouthing as they wanted everyone to buy their new modern ships with tricycle gear and steering wheels.

As for the "making you a better pilot" myth, maybe it would sharpen up the attention focus of an otherwise marginal airman but really, there is so much more to aviating than mastering one's backwards shopping cart control skills and I've met plenty of lousy taildragger pilots in my days. Probably the most irritating thing is when a nosedragger pilot gets a tailwheel "endorsement" (didn't used to be any) and makes it out like he's had an epiphany of some sort. I mean, it's really not that big of a deal.

As for nosing over, well taildraggers do it too. They've got better soft and rough field abilities but don't think they are immune to it.

And finally, as to Tom's crack up: you guys know how many planes Jimmy Doolittle cracked up? Would you have given him a hard time about it? :rolleyes:
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Here's an example of one of those modern tricycle gear planes with a steering wheel...
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How many airplanes DID Jimmy Doolittle crack up? I'm aware he bailed out of a B25 over china during the war. What others?
 
Dan Thomas said:
I think the nosewheel broke off in that instance and the leg dug in and flipped it.
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Nosewheel did not break off. There have been quite a few trike RV flip overs on soft or rough turf strips. The nose wheel fork is very low and prone to digging in after the spindly rod gear flexes and shimmies back and forth. There is a modification that raises the fork a little. You couldn't give me a trike RV. In tailwheel configuration, they're super easy to handle.

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Jimmy cooper said:
How many airplanes DID Jimmy Doolittle crack up? I'm aware he bailed out of a B25 over china during the war. What others?
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You know, I'd have to just say a whole bunch. Read his excellent autobiography "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again" One that I remember in particular was a brand spanking new Lockheed Vega that the company had given to him. Loaded his family and all their bags in and clipped a snowbank on takeoff which completely destroyed the aircraft after which Lockheed gave him another. It's been a while but if I remember correctly he crashed that one too (later)

It's a fantastic book, highly recommend it
 
Jimmy cooper said:
How many airplanes DID Jimmy Doolittle crack up? I'm aware he bailed out of a B25 over china during the war. What others?
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Several throughout the 20s and 30s including at least one with his whole family onboard. I'd have to re-read his autobiography to tally them up.

Edit: looks like Silvaire beat me to it.
 
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and just about all of 'em were taildraggers :rofl:
 
Henning said:
Lock up the other brake and you blow out a couple tires, end of story, and that's the primary difference, when things go wrong on a landing with a tail wheel, it gets real expensive real fast.
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Apparently you've not seen a 172/182 with a busted nose strut and damaged fire wall, struck prop, and a quick stopped engine.
 
Went out to my airport one Saturday not long ago and there were TWO of them (172's) both from the same flight school, both on the same day. Nose gears busted clean off. Second one came out to pick up the instructor and student that were in the first one.
 
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