Taildraggers are a handful!

[RalphInCA]

Or more accurately. A foot full.

Just got down from my second training flight in our clubs Champ.

Landings and takeoffs were kinda squirrelly. Got to stay on the rudder pedals!

Disappointed in myself. Hopefully next flight will be better. Don't want to the the first pilot to crash this 68 year old airplane - an airplane that has probably trained hundred of students.

 

[simtech]

Yes they are way more involved. It took me a few hours before I even started having "happy feet" come somewhat natural. It sure is a challenge but a blast to do. I've made my instructor earn his pay on a few occasions. Good luck, relax, have fun, and keep those pedals moving!

 

[Busflyer]

Give yourself some time. Taildraggers will make you a better pilot.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Disappointed in myself. Hopefully next flight will be better.

Don't worry. Your next flight WILL be better.

I never felt so inadequate as a pilot as I did on my first day of tail wheel training. Don't give up. Once you get through that initial hurdle it will become second nature and get much easier. Then the challenge becomes respecting the tail wheel and not getting too comfortable or complacent.

 

[Florida Cracker]

Stay with it.

I found that one day, without warning, it all just clicked, and from then on it was automatic.

 

[jesse]

Or more accurately. A foot full.

Just got down from my second training flight in our clubs Champ.

Landings and takeoffs were kinda squirrelly. Got to stay on the rudder pedals!

Disappointed in myself. Hopefully next flight will be better. Don't want to the the first pilot to crash this 68 year old airplane - an airplane that has probably trained hundred of students.

You'll get it...it's like learning how to ride a bike. I don't think about the difference between a nosewheel and a tailwheel at all. I just fly whatever it is. Just takes practice.

I was a little nervous when I took my Flybaby up for the first time. It's a single seat airplane and I hadn't flown a tailwheel in about 8 years and only had about 10 hours in them total. Other than the fact that I used about as much runway as a Citation on the first landing I hadn't forgotten a thing.

 

[RalphInCA]

I never felt so inadequate as a pilot as I did on my first day of tail wheel training.

Yep. Know the feeling well.

Next flight is Friday. Reading Stick and Rudder now. I am determined to make the next flight better.

 

[Bill Watson]

Once you get through that initial hurdle it will become second nature and get much easier. Then the challenge becomes respecting the tail wheel and not getting too comfortable or complacent.

...to both points

 

[mondtster]

Don't want to the the first pilot to crash this 68 year old airplane - an airplane that has probably trained hundred of students.

Don't worry, it has likely been wrecked before.

Keep working at it, you'll start to pick it up after a couple of lessons. Tail wheel airplanes are just airplanes but they do take a little more finesse than the trikes do.

 

[Tom-D]

Practice Dutch rolls, Keep the nose on one spot and do full input deflections and make it smooth.

 

[Geico266]

Disappointed in myself. Hopefully next flight will be better. Don't want to the the first pilot to crash this 68 year old airplane - an airplane that has probably trained hundred of students.

Don't worry. Your next flight WILL be better.

I never felt so inadequate as a pilot as I did on my first day of tail wheel training. Don't give up. Once you get through that initial hurdle it will become second nature and get much easier. Then the challenge becomes respecting the tail wheel and not getting too comfortable or complacent.

Exactly.

There is a reason the FAA demands dual training for additional ratings and TG is no exception. Stick with it. You need to anticipate the rudder needed to control the plane. Even if it doesn't need rudder add some then correct it with the other one. It looks cool as you are landing as other TG pilots will notice.

Seriously, stick with it and don't give up. It takes time and patience, but it was the best add on I have ever done..... then again it is the only add on I have ever done.

 

[Geico266]

Give yourself some time. Taildraggers will make you a better pilot.

Whole heartedly agree.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Stay with it.

I found that one day, without warning, it all just clicked, and from then on it was automatic.

Very true. One day you'll say...."I've got it!" Stick with it. It's really a challenge and lots of fun, especially small out of the way grass airstrips. Cross winds can make you a little nervous at times but you'll get the hang of it. Good luck. Tri gears will be duck soup if your good at tail wheel operations.

 

[Henning]

Or more accurately. A foot full.

Just got down from my second training flight in our clubs Champ.

Landings and takeoffs were kinda squirrelly. Got to stay on the rudder pedals!

Disappointed in myself. Hopefully next flight will be better. Don't want to the the first pilot to crash this 68 year old airplane - an airplane that has probably trained hundred of students.

It takes a little bit to get comfortable in them, but it happens.

 

[Stewartb]

You're learning to be a complete pilot, not just a partial pilot.

 

[James331]

Yes they are way more involved. It took me a few hours before I even started having "happy feet" come somewhat natural. It sure is a challenge but a blast to do. I've made my instructor earn his pay on a few occasions. Good luck, relax, have fun, and keep those pedals moving!

Please don't do the "happy feet" thing. Dancing on the pedals isn't it. Anticipation is where its at.

 

[RalphInCA]

Thanks guys.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Please don't do the "happy feet" thing. Dancing on the pedals isn't it. Anticipation is where its at.

That, and the willingness to use ALL the rudder when it's needed. That was one of the main failures I found in taildragger students. When the airplane started to swerve on the runway, they were not only a bit slow with opposite rudder, they were too timid with it.

Dan

 

[Henning]

Please don't do the "happy feet" thing. Dancing on the pedals isn't it. Anticipation is where its at.

Exactly, understand what is going to happen and lead in smooth and early to keep the movements to their minimum.

 

[Henning]

That, and the willingness to use ALL the rudder when it's needed. That was one of the main failures I found in taildragger students. When the airplane started to swerve on the runway, they were not only a bit slow with opposite rudder, they were too timid with it.

Dan

When needed... Use what you need when you need it, no more, no less.

 

[N3368K]

I'm sure you didn't successfully ride a bike in two attempts. Tailwheels are no mystery but they do take a bit longer to learn how ride. Immediate input to counter deviations and only in the amount needed without over or under controlling just takes a few hours to fully develop.

Don't sweat it or rush it and you will do fine. You'll be glad you did.


Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4

 

[Henning]

Yep, it's just a matter of practice.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Give yourself some time. Taildraggers will make you a better pilot.

sez the guy who ain't never rode with me...

 

[Geico266]

sez the guy who ain't never rode with me...

 

[Henning]

Exactly.

There is a reason the FAA demands dual training for additional ratings and TG is no exception. Stick with it. You need to anticipate the rudder needed to control the plane. Even if it doesn't need rudder add some then correct it with the other one. It looks cool as you are landing as other TG pilots will notice.

Seriously, stick with it and don't give up. It takes time and patience, but it was the best add on I have ever done..... then again it is the only add on I have ever done.

Tailwheel is an endorsement, not additional rating, so it is by definition an exception.

 

[Henning]

sez the guy who ain't never rode with me...

I've always thought the notion funny as well. It's not the landing gear that makes a better pilot, it's the though processes. Manipulating an airplane through space is the least part of being a pilot; taxi, take off and landing are only small fractions of the least important part of being PIC. Being a better pilot is a lot more involved than landings. Besides, unless you need the prop clearance or the ability to bounce off the ground here and there at flying speeds, a Tailwheel buys you no benefit at the addition of risk.

 

[Stewartb]

Taildraggers have a big advantage on rough and soft fields and a huge advantage on skis.

Taildraggers are officially referred to as having conventional gear. It's the nose draggers that are unconventional. :wink2:

 

[Henning]

Taildraggers have a big advantage on rough and soft fields and a huge advantage on skis.

Taildraggers are officially referred to as having conventional gear. It's the nose draggers that are unconventional. :wink2:

Exactly, there are limited applications with small planes where they have an advantage. When they get larger, that advantage goes away and the situation reverts to normal tricycle advantage. If you have any doubts about this, watch the video where they get the B-29 out of the ice in Greenland and watch what that Caribou does. The C-130 does really well on skis as well. I think the only advantage a TW has there is drag in flight.

 

[Henning]

Taildraggers have a big advantage on rough and soft fields and a huge advantage on skis.

Taildraggers are officially referred to as having conventional gear. It's the nose draggers that are unconventional. :wink2:

Oh, BTW, since the original airplanes to operate on wheels were of tricycle layout, I would argue the use of 'conventional'.

 

[yakdriver]

Exactly.

There is a reason the FAA demands dual training for additional ratings and TG is no exception. Stick with it. You need to anticipate the rudder needed to control the plane. Even if it doesn't need rudder add some then correct it with the other one. It looks cool as you are landing as other TG pilots will notice.

Wrong! You can tell a really good tailwheel pilot by how little the rudder moves. When you get pretty good in the front seat and get your endorsement ask the instructor if he will let you fly from the back seat a couple of hours with him. That will really tune up your senses. One of the reasons the J-3 was such a good trainer is that the student sat behind the instructor and learned from day one to fly without much help from the instruments. Don

 

[Henning]

You want to be stable in the yaw axis, you can't be stable when you are "dancing on the rudders". The only plane I expect to see with a wagging rudder with a good tail wheel pilot is a Pitts or one of the clones.

 

[Stewartb]

Exactly, there are limited applications with small planes where they have an advantage. When they get larger, that advantage goes away and the situation reverts to normal tricycle advantage. If you have any doubts about this, watch the video where they get the B-29 out of the ice in Greenland and watch what that Caribou does. The C-130 does really well on skis as well. I think the only advantage a TW has there is drag in flight.

I don't watch airplane videos. I watch airplanes. For 6 months of the year the ones I'm surrounded by have skis on them. Including my own.

 

[GAZOO]

Sounds like KCCB. Im based outta there. I have the red Stinson & cream/green Fairchild. Wife owns the general store

You will get it. Just takes time. Look me up if u ever wanna chat bout tailwheels. Land and take off looking far ahead. Pic a point and keep it straight. If you aren't dancing on the pedals, you're doing it wrong.

 

[GAZOO]

If u "dance" the peddles in a moderate way the plane will not yaw from side to side.

I say "dance" meaning. Feel the ass end move....fix it before u need full opposit rudder to correct. Sometimes its mandatory, but for the most part with the right approach little movements are better IMO

 

[Flyhound]

And don't hesitate to initiate a go-around when things start going south. Adding power can help keep the nose pointed in the direction of movement. Gusty crosswinds never get easy, but knowing the plane and having a deep understanding of the controls will let you deal with uncomfortable and challenging conditions effectively. Once you get the hang of it, tailgater's are fun to fly. Doing a wheel landing to check out the conditions of an unfamiliar turf field provides additional assurance that the runway can take the weight of the plane before doing a full stop landing. Having the ability to lightly roll the wheels on ground at higher than landing speed is actually a fun skill to acquire. I love my Maule and the places it let's me go that would be more challenging with a tricycle gear plane. I'll be camping in it this summer and enjoying the fact that my 3rd wheel is in back, not in front.

 

[Henning]

I don't watch airplane videos. I watch airplanes. For 6 months of the year the ones I'm surrounded by have skis on them. Including my own.

Yeah, small planes, you live in that extreme market where the are relevant. I have no issues with Tailwheel planes, I don't think they should disappear or anything. I just think that the notion that the small skill set gained by learning to manage a conventional gear plane at the ground plane intersect is not a very majorly useful skill set to learn in the broader scope of, " being a better pilot". I think the skill set one gains in a 10 hour aerobatic course is much more useful in "being a better pilot".

Now coincidentally, in most markets that means you will also learn to manage a Tailwheel, but not necessarily. My first aerobatics was in a 2160 Robyn tricycle, there are several others as well.

 

[FastEddieB]

I found it helped to have a goal of rolling on the tailwheel ever-so-slightly first. Mains then drop a few inches with little or no drama - the plane is done flying!

Also, rudder usage should end up in the "Goldilocks Zone" - not too little, not too much, but just right!

But...

I would rather see the student over-control at first, flapping that rudder around a bit - "dancing" as it were, and then work on smoothness.

I might be biased because, as a student I tended to under-control and had to be coaxed to do enough to make corrections.

 

[RoscoeT]

Please don't do the "happy feet" thing. Dancing on the pedals isn't it. Anticipation is where its at.

Yep, don't become a dreaded rudder flapper. With practice you should find your feet moving less and less.

If u "dance" the peddles in a moderate way the plane will not yaw from side to side.

I don't like that idea. It instills the rudder flapping concept from the get go that many pilots never get over. Some seem to think that just because you constantly flap the rudder a little back and forth that the airplane will somehow always track a straight line. It won't. Make corrections for the swerves that exist, not the ones that don't exist. Move the rudder when you need, but leave the rudders alone when you're rolling straight.

Pedals.

 

[RalphInCA]

Sounds like KCCB. Im based outta there. I have the red Stinson & cream/green Fairchild. Wife owns the general store

You will get it. Just takes time. Look me up if u ever wanna chat bout tailwheels. Land and take off looking far ahead. Pic a point and keep it straight. If you aren't dancing on the pedals, you're doing it wrong.

Yep. CCB. I have begun flying Foothill FC's Aeronca with Rick S.

 

[GAZOO]

Well u guys do it your stabbing the pedle way. Ill stick with mine, works for me and I have yet to GL. (Knock on wood)


And I could care less if i spell it right. You still get the point