Taildragger for 1400' of grass

Jim K

Jim K

Final Approach
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Richard Digits
My aviation dreams tend to shift depending on what I'm doing that day. Some days I'm convinced the Lance will satisfy me indefinitely, some days I'm ready to move up to a Seneca, and some days I'm pinching pennies with dreams of owning a kerosene burner of some kind.

So I did a young eagles rally Saturday, and this beauty showed up:
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Which reminded me that owning one has been on my list longer than most of my other crazy ideas. I had kind of thought I was too big, but the owner is probably an inch taller than me and assured me I'd fit just fine. It also occurred to me that I should probably start building taildragger time now so I'm insurable and have the experience necessary to keep the little wheel in the back if/when the opportunity to own one arises.

Which brings me to the question... We've recently moved, and one of the motivations for that is that I own the field surrounding the new house. It's an odd shaped piece, but Google earth tells me there's 1400' from the road to the interstate. What taildraggers would be safe to operate from such a strip? No obstructions other than the cars on the roads, although being super low over the interstate might attract attention.

I don't even know where to start looking. I'm 6'4" 270lb, so it has to have some elbow room and some decent UL. Mission would be tailwheel training and local sightseeing, although it'd be nice if it could go fast enough to get somewhere too. Ideally it would have a electrical system so I could easily fly it into the class C where the lance lives. Let's set the budget at 50k for conversation sake.

I'd like to eventually build a Rans S21, Rv14, or maybe 15. Did I mention I have airplane ADD?
 
The elbow/legroom narrows the field. Maybe a Cessna 170, with 180hp engine? Probably have a hard time finding one under $50K.
 
Jim K said:
Which brings me to the question... We've recently moved, and one of the motivations for that is that I own the field surrounding the new house. It's an odd shaped piece, but Google earth tells me there's 1400' from the road to the interstate. What taildraggers would be safe to operate from such a strip? No obstructions other than the cars on the roads, although being super low over the interstate might attract attention.

I don't even know where to start looking. I'm 6'4" 270lb, so it has to have some elbow room and some decent UL. Mission would be tailwheel training and local sightseeing, although it'd be nice if it could go fast enough to get somewhere too. Ideally it would have a electrical system so I could easily fly it into the class C where the lance lives. Let's set the budget at 50k for conversation sake.
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50k doesn't buy you hardly any planes these days. Taildraggers have become hugely popular and expensive as a result of the STOL crowd becoming popular. You're looking at a J3 cub variant for just you and that runway length.

Based on your size and weight you really probably want a 180/185 or Maule to fit your build and runway requirements.

195's are runway hogs (relatively speaking) and would be tough to get in and out of 1400'
 
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About the only thing you will find that fits the criteria is probably a Stinson 108-3. You might find a rough 170 at that price but there should be plenty of Stinson's.
 
To paraphrase Top Gun: your body’s writing checks your budget can’t cash.

At your size, skip all of the two-seaters. And anything else will be awfully tough on that budget.
 
I did my tailwheel endorsement in an AL3 and I loved the airplane. Only needs a few hundred feet and it’s up and outta there!
 
Jim K said:
I'd like to eventually build a Rans S21, Rv14, or maybe 15. Did I mention I have airplane ADD?
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You and me both! After my current garage/loft/mancave project is done. I plan on building a barn/shop on the property to build an s21 or a highlander or superstol or a kitfox....and then looking at an rv10 or 14. My neighbor has a really nice L shaped alfalfa field Ive been eyeballing. 1100 feet for 18/36 and 900 for 9/27. Probably too tight and too populated to make it work. But there's an old garbage dump across the street, I could fold the wings up on the kitfox or highlander and taxi it there.

Hey, I hear there's this big fly in thingy where you can talk to people and look at and sit in planes. I think it's next week. Might wanna look into it;)
 
You Sir are about to enter a world many are too frightened to enter. A world filled with adventure and daring aviators. Your exquisite taste led you to the best aircraft ever made, The Cessna One Ninety Five. Depending on obstacles you may be able to operate the big boy. I already can tell you are a top shelf pilot ready to ditch the trainer wheel.

I’m currently operating a Cessna One Seventy, and can land in 600’ with the 40 degree paralift flaps (available on the B model only), with a takeoff roll 800-1000’. The stock power of 145 HP will limit you on climbout, but can clear trees just fine when light. I’m 6’2” tall and 170 lbs, plenty of leg room for me. I do have to duck my head a little to see out side windows.

If you have the lettuce, a Baby 180 (C170B with 180 HP upgrade) would be a real performer. Or a nice C180.

Good luck on your quest for excellence!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
50k doesn't buy you hardly any planes these days. Taildraggers have become hugely popular and expensive as a result of the STOL crowd becoming popular. You're looking at a J3 cub variant for just you and that runway length.

Based on your size and weight you really probably want a 180/185 or Maule to fit your build and runway requirements.

195's are runway hogs (relatively speaking) and would be tough to get in and out of 1400'
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Well, the 195 would be a retirement project and that's not going to happen in IL. This current idea is a short term plan.

I could come up with a longer runway, but it would really screw up how I farm the field. 1400' would take 2.5 acres out of production, but it would be parallel to the rows.

Budget is not really a constraint, but the more money I pour into this plan the less is available for Lance upgrades and the bathroom remodel I'm told we "need":biggrin: 50 is kind of the number where it goes from something I could do soonish to something that will take longer term planning.

I was thinking of some of the older tandem seating planes....like a Champ or Supercub? I know little about them beyond names. Do they take more runway than I think? Smaller than I think? For reference I can fit in a 172, but I don't really like it.
 
Jim K said:
I was thinking of some of the older tandem seating planes....like a Champ or Supercub? I know little about them beyond names. Do they take more runway than I think? Smaller than I think? For reference I can fit in a 172, but I don't really like it.
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Champ will struggle with your weight and that runway. They don't have the big fat cub wing. A supercub will be $150k easy.

A citabria 7GCAA might fit the budget & runway requirements. But will be tight for you.
 
Everyone has a different tolerance level but any tandem is going to feel cramped for leg room at your height. A Champ or Citabria will have the most room but you will be flying solo unless you just carry enough gas for 30 minutes or so.
 
Racerx said:
Air tractor! Gets your kerosene and tailwheel fix....and a write off.
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I actually have a friend who just bought a turbine Ag cat. He did his tailwheel time building in a Champ he bought. I need to go sit in it and see how it feels. He's an engineer and has fallen in love with ag flying. He's trying to get a spray business off the ground if you'll pardon the pun. He's a couple inches shorter and a lot skinnier than me though.
 
Grum.Man said:
About the only thing you will find that fits the criteria is probably a Stinson 108-3. You might find a rough 170 at that price but there should be plenty of Stinson's.
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Least this would match that new tractor...

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Jim K said:
I was thinking of some of the older tandem seating planes....like a Champ or Supercub? I know little about them beyond names. Do they take more runway than I think? Smaller than I think? For reference I can fit in a 172, but I don't really like it.
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Champ and its progeny are considerably roomier and more comfortable than Cubs, but as mentioned above, hp for hp Champs give up some short-field performance to Cubs. That said, the 150+ hp 7GCBC (the only Citabria with flaps) and heavy-duty Scout have solid performance. PA-12 is a widened three-seat Cub with a side-by-side back seat, and is plenty comfortable. They were originally built with only a skimpy 100-108 hp and no flaps; many, though, have been modified with more power, PA-18 wings (with flaps), landing gear and balanced tailfeathers. Carbon Cubs are super performers and are four inches wider inside than Piper-built Cubs, but they are pricey, and most are limited to LSA weights.

Good hunting!
 
The one plane that comes to mind? A PA-20/22 Pacer.

A Champ may fit your requirements. A friend has one in his fleet. He’s a big guy and he bought it to teach his daughters to fly. It did a fine job, too. He still uses it when he has short commutes. He has bigger, faster, more powerful airplanes but likes the honesty of a basic Champ. Fly the wing. Most of us fly the throttle.

You may find a Luscombe or Taylorcraft in your budget. Try then on first. Those may be too tight for comfort.
 
You could probably get an OK Pacer for 50K. With an 0-320 they perform quite well.
 
Sorry I don't have any practical advice to offer, but the 195 has to be the most beautiful airplane ever produced.

I hope you get one someday.
 
most light taildraggers can easily get in and out of 1200’ or even 900’ assuming they aren’t loaded heavy and the DA isn’t excessive. It’s easier to list planes that can’t than planes that can.
 
Since we're all salivating over our favorites here: Another vote for the Cessna 195 and Beech 18 here. I'll likely never own either, but love them both.
 
My Merlin GT would likely fit you- passenger weight would be limited - about 190 or so. In and out of short grass - bingo. Fast? Nope. Not no way, not no how. I paid $20K some years ago, but she ain't no beauty queen and I had to add the transponder / ADS-B.

Highlander? Don't know what they are going for...
 
A bit of thread drift here but I was wondering if the young eagles got to ride in the 195.

BTW ... at 6'4" & 270lb, I hope if we ever meet that I don't make you angry! :biggrin:
 
Jim K said:
195 > staggerwing. All day, every day, and twice on Sunday.
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Wrong.

For your actual problem, if you can find an old RV-6 with crappy avionics those sometimes drop into your price range. 1400' is more than enough runway for the mission of building T/W time (not loading up to gross wt).
 
A C180 will do 1400' all day, everyday. I saw one listed at $99k the other day. Lowest price I have seen in a couple years.
I used to take mine in and out of a 1700' hay field fully loaded, in the afternoon at 8000' msl. DA probably around 11,000 or so.

Is is 1400' with obstructions at both ends, or 1400' with good approaches?
 
Daleandee said:
A bit of thread drift here but I was wondering if the young eagles got to ride in the 195.

BTW ... at 6'4" & 270lb, I hope if we ever meet that I don't make you angry! :biggrin:
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Yep he flew 9 kids.

I think anyone here who has met me will tell you that I'm pretty mild mannered, so you have nothing to worry about :)
 
Jim K said:
Yep he flew 9 kids.

I think anyone here who has met me will tell you that I'm pretty mild mannered, so you have nothing to worry about :)
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Very good to hear that he was taking the kids for rides, that's how you hook 'em!

I don't make much fuss so I don't think we have any concerns at all ... :)
 
If you fit, the Citabria 7GCBC would work, but slightly over budget. 160HP preferred, 150 would work. The 180 might have a payload problem.
 
Daleandee said:
Very good to hear that he was taking the kids for rides, that's how you hook 'em!
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I agree. I got my first ride around that 7-8 age, and I've been hooked ever since. That's why I started doing YE, and to be honest it's been more rewarding than I expected.

I got to take two brothers on their first ever airplane ride (including commercial), and they were blown away. A 15 year old showed up with an aviation shirt and hat and was asking good questions, so I let him have the yoke for about half the flight and he did great. He might be applying for a Ray scholarship in a couple years. I also had a girl who's family drove down from Chicago as they weren't able to get signed up for a rally up there.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
My Merlin GT would likely fit you- passenger weight would be limited - about 190 or so. In and out of short grass - bingo. Fast? Nope. Not no way, not no how. I paid $20K some years ago, but she ain't no beauty queen and I had to add the transponder / ADS-B.

Highlander? Don't know what they are going for...
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The Just Aircraft Escapade can be tail or nosewheel, pretty speedy for what it is.
 
Jim K said:
I agree. I got my first ride around that 7-8 age, and I've been hooked ever since. That's why I started doing YE, and to be honest it's been more rewarding than I expected.

I got to take two brothers on their first ever airplane ride (including commercial), and they were blown away. A 15 year old showed up with an aviation shirt and hat and was asking good questions, so I let him have the yoke for about half the flight and he did great. He might be applying for a Ray scholarship in a couple years. I also had a girl who's family drove down from Chicago as they weren't able to get signed up for a rally up there.
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Great news for sure! I've given a few rides myself but just recently became a YE pilot. Our chapter is working now to set up a rally ...
 
Give me the lat/long and I’ll see what I can fit in. The 170 I brought to 6Y9 last year is a straight 170, O-300, cruise prop, metalized wings, and is totally a runway hog. I think it took me 1/2 of 6Y9 to get it down and settled. Same for the take off.

Predominant winds are probably a factor as well. The other day I was flying a J3 with a 12g16 direct crosswind and my landing distance from ~25 ft was 950-1100 feet (dry cut grass, no brakes). Granted I’m not a good pilot, but something to consider.
 
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