Tail wheel training

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Luvrv8

Line Up and Wait
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Camarillo Ca
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KCMA flyer
I took a break from my insterment training today for some fun flying. Went out to th airport today to talk with a friend, next thing I know I am siting in the front seat of his PT-19. I flew it a couple of years ago and was not having fun with the CFI. Since then a new CFI has come around and loves to fly this plane. So up we go, started out with some Dutch rolls, stalls, turns and some simulated landings at 2K feet. We did 3 landings at Oxnard, I bounced one. Lets just say if I didn't have the CFI behind me I would still be talking to the FAA on how I lost control on the ground. We went back to Camarillo and landed there. The CFI tells me I did great and will have no problem with this plane. I said my landing were crap. He then tells me we were not working on the full landings yet, he was training me on the sight picture of the approach and speed control and said I was great with that. I am glad I flew with him today, I was ready to walk away from tail wheels after the last CFI. Looks like this CFI works great with me and I actually had a great time with him.
 
Very cool airplane to do TW training in.
 
Give yourself some time to get the feel of the landings. They will come naturally after a while.
 
Geico266 said:
Give yourself some time to get the feel of the landings. They will come naturally after a while.
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I find it very helpful to spend several minutes sitting in a new to me taildragger burning the forward sight picture into my brain since that's the way it needs to look just prior to touching down 3 pt. And this kind of "training" is both priceless and free.
 
I really enjoyed my time with him. He made me at ease when he said we were not learning landings today, just the sight picture. I was surprised on wheel landings how a few degrees of tail down at touch down made the plane a bit more of a hand full.
 
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I'd like to get a TW endorsement. Does it "mess things up" when you start landing tricycle planes again, or does it improve your skills? I thought I've heard people say it makes you better at landings overall.

OP, how many hours did you spend, and how much longer do you think it will be before you're comfortable?
 
rbridges said:
I'd like to get a TW endorsement. Does it "mess things up" when you start landing tricycle planes again, or does it improve your skills?
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Shouldn't mess anything up too bad. The biggest difference is that you have to stay on top of it to keep it straight on the ground.

But...

"Tailwheel aircraft" covers a pretty wide range of sins.

Some aircraft have the added benefit of being totally blind straight ahead when in the three point attitude - some are not much different than a Cessna 150.

Some have POS brakes, some have nice brakes - makes a difference in what you can / can not use for directional control during a wheel landing as you are setting the tail down. Oh, and some even have a tail skid.

Some are squirrely, some track nicely.

Some like to three point, some like wheelies.

There is no "one size fits all".
 
rbridges said:
I'd like to get a TW endorsement. Does it "mess things up" when you start landing tricycle planes again, or does it improve your skills? I thought I've heard people say it makes you better at landings overall.
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Yeah it messes you up because you'll get back in your trike and think it's way too easy and boring. :) Seriously, it will not mess anything up. You should start landing your trike better because you notice slight crab angles and drift that the trike simply forgave you for before. You either learn to fly more precisely in a tailwheel or you go swerving all over the runway, or worse.
 
Luvrv8 said:
I took a break from my insterment training today for some fun flying. Went out to th airport today to talk with a friend, next thing I know I am siting in the front seat of his PT-19. I flew it a couple of years ago and was not having fun with the CFI. Since then a new CFI has come around and loves to fly this plane. So up we go, started out with some Dutch rolls, stalls, turns and some simulated landings at 2K feet. We did 3 landings at Oxnard, I bounced one. Lets just say if I didn't have the CFI behind me I would still be talking to the FAA on how I lost control on the ground. We went back to Camarillo and landed there. The CFI tells me I did great and will have no problem with this plane. I said my landing were crap. He then tells me we were not working on the full landings yet, he was training me on the sight picture of the approach and speed control and said I was great with that. I am glad I flew with him today, I was ready to walk away from tail wheels after the last CFI. Looks like this CFI works great with me and I actually had a great time with him.
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I was in Santa Paula (KSZP) this weekend delivering a Cherokee there and met the folks at CP Aviation. They do a LOT of tailwheel training from the looks of it, with complete aerobatics courses and Emergency Maneuvers Training. I was impressed. I think they said they were the only ones who actually will rent a tailwheel aircraft for solo flight in the area. Nice folks...and a nice airport dog, Bo!
 
rbridges said:
I'd like to get a TW endorsement. Does it "mess things up" when you start landing tricycle planes again, or does it improve your skills? I thought I've heard people say it makes you better at landings overall.

OP, how many hours did you spend, and how much longer do you think it will be before you're comfortable?
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Go for it. Its challenging and a lot of fun. Certainly won't screw up your trike landings. I fly a J3 and a mooney.
 
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Hard to say how many more hours I will need to get signed off. The up side is the insurance wants 25 hours duel time before PIC flight. We flew 1.3 and the CFI told me my air work was good, landing sight picture looks good so I guess we will spend time on landings with a few air work flights here and there.

I was thinking about my time with the CFI, one thing I think makes me enjoy my time with him is his love for this plane. He learned to fly in this model, he flies a 767 for a living, typed in a ton of planes including a Connie, DC3,C46 and the list keeps going. The owner wants a few of us proficient in this plane so all I pay is fuel, even the CFI does not charge us, in return he gets to fly it when he wants.
 
You must be flying the CAF's PT-19? Didn't know they were doing instruction now too. For a primary trainer, the PT-19 the easiest of all to land (Stearman, PT-22, etc). That trailing link gear makes it pretty much a breeze if you keep it straight. Nice and heavy too. In fact, it might spoil you for a light taildragger (Cub, Champ, Citabria). Don't know how much the CAF is charging, but it might be cheaper to go get your T/W endorsement at SZP in a Citabria, then you can go sponsor the PT-19 and fly it at your whim.

Mike-
 
Not flying the CAF airplane. My friend has a couple 19's of his own.

The reason the owner want me proficient on this plane is he wants it flown, the only cost I have is fuel,helping with the up keep and helping with the restoring of the second and possibly 3 rd one.
 
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I am not the OP, but I just did my TW in a Citabria in about 11 hours. Mostly wheel landings, some three pointers. I felt comfortable/safe after about 7 hours. Spent the remaining time getting the g-meter not to budge on landing. I didn't quite get used to just how aggressively you can slip the Citabria on final compared to the 172; guess I need to fly it more... you know, for science.

rbridges said:
I'd like to get a TW endorsement. Does it "mess things up" when you start landing tricycle planes again, or does it improve your skills? I thought I've heard people say it makes you better at landings overall.

OP, how many hours did you spend, and how much longer do you think it will be before you're comfortable?
Click to expand...
 
whifferdill said:
Yeah it messes you up because you'll get back in your trike and think it's way too easy and boring. :) Seriously, it will not mess anything up. You should start landing your trike better because you notice slight crab angles and drift that the trike simply forgave you for before. You either learn to fly more precisely in a tailwheel or you go swerving all over the runway, or worse.
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:yeahthat:

After about 7 hours in the Champ, almost all in the Pattern going round and round, I flew the Warrior last Saturday and made several of the smoothest and precise landings I have ever made. Having to be ahead of the airplane all the time and responding quickly and smoothly in a Champ definitely carried over to my other flying. Even when a big side gust hit just at round out on one landing, it was easy to keep the Warrior tracking down the centerline for a squeaker. :D

Cheers
 
When I was learning to fly, my instructor (a crop duster) was also teaching one of his flagmen to fly in a ratty old Champ they had out at his farm strip. I was flying a shiny, new Cessna 172 Hawk XP. We did a joint dual X-C so he could get some time behind an instrument panel with actual instruments and radios. The non-flying student sat in back and observed, which was educational in and of itself at that point in my training.

His first landing in a C-172 was a greaser...as were all the rest of his landings.

My first bunch of landings in a taildragger were nowhere near as pretty! Proved to me that taildraggers make better pilots from the get-go.
 
Luvrv8 said:
Not flying the CAF airplane. My friend has a couple 19's of his own.

The reason the owner want me proficient on this plane is he wants it flown, the only cost I have is fuel,helping with the up keep and helping with the restoring of the second and possibly 3 rd one.
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You've got a chance to fly the plane for the cost of fuel and helping with the restorations? That sounds like a fantastic opportunity to me particularly if you like working on old airplanes.

You'll probably get bored after a few hours of take offs and landings. Can you get some aerobatic time in the PT19 too?
 
You can take two students and take them through solo, one in a 150 and one in a 140. You can then have then switch airplanes and the 140 pilot will have no trouble at all flying the 150 but it will take the 150 pilot almost as much time to solo the 140 as it took him in the 150. Don
 
Never worry, you will develop good skills soon, happens in the training.
 
David said:
You've got a chance to fly the plane for the cost of fuel and helping with the restorations? That sounds like a fantastic opportunity to me particularly if you like working on old airplanes.

You'll probably get bored after a few hours of take offs and landings. Can you get some aerobatic time in the PT19 too?
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I am not sure if aerobatic is legal in the PT19 or even a good idea. I have friends with Pitts, that sounds like a better idea. It's actually fun with the small group of guys doing the work. No attitudes, no drama just a few guys who like to play with planes. Working with the owner is great, if we need parts or a special tool we have it as fast as he can get it. If its not made, he will fire up the lathe and make it. It's nice to work in a clean hanger, well stocked parts and we actually hang out doing other things then aviation.
 
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The PT 19 does nice gentleman aerobatics. Loops, rolls, spins etc. Lot of work but will teach you a lot. Don
 
I had no idea they were able to do aerobatics. Learn something new daily here.
 
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