Tail Wheel Training....so Do I Need To By Some Ballet Shoes?

Bones

Bones

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
117
Location
Tulsa, OK
Display Name
Display name:
Bones
Was speaking with someone the other day about tail-wheel airplanes and the complexities of how to teach in them. And it got me to thinking and asking myself some questions and searching for some answers.

So I wanted to ask everyone a couple of questions on the subject.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK IS THE MOST MYSETERIOUS THING ABOUT FLYING A TAIL-WHEEL AIRCRAFT?

and

IF YOU WANTED TO GET A TAIL WHEEL ENDORSEMENT WHAT ABILITIES AND COMPETANCE DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE WHEN YOU ARE SIGNED OFF?

Any ideas would greatly be appreciated! Thanks Everyone!

BTW --for those of you that have T.W.E.s How many folks believe in the the addage "There are those that Have, and Those that Will ground loop a conventional gear aircraft." ?

Would love to hear everyones ideas! Thanks!
 
As far as flying a tailwheel aircraft, I don't think there is anything mysterious about it. It's simply different. It's very unstable by it's own nature and requires that you relearn how to takeoff and land.

There are MANY students out there who were taught to fly in tailwheel aircraft, and probably soloed with the same amount of time. It's just different..that's all.

It's just about learning how to use the rudder and making an airplane do what you want.

As far as your next question. It's pretty simple.

1.) How to takeoff
2.) How to land in a cross wind
3.) How to land three point
4.) How to do a wheelie landing
5.) How to make the airplane do what you want

Bones said:
BTW --for those of you that have T.W.E.s How many folks believe in the the addage "There are those that Have, and Those that Will ground loop a conventional gear aircraft." ?
Click to expand...
That I do not agree with. I know many pilots who went through their entire career and have now passed away that have not ground looped an airplane.
My grandpa told my dad when he jumped into the stearman for the first time (it was a single seater, no dual here) that he would KILL him if he ever groundlooped it. Well, neither of them ever groundlooped the stearmans. They cropdusted for something like 40 years in them.
 
My Dad taught me to fly a J-3 in 1954, I soloed in 3.5 hours in it. HOW? no one told me it was hard.

Here is the basic rules I fly the tail wheel.

Concentrate on holding center line on take off, and allow the aircraft to fly off, then it's just another old airplane.

I fly the up wind wing down, and top rudder all the way to touch down. Believe me it is the easy way. Its too difficult to stay good enough to land hold forward stick and do the differental braking needed in high winds.

WHY? because if you can't hold center line on final this way, your not going to hold center line after you touch down, because when the tail goes down you will weather vain up into the wind as you slow down.

Remember speed equals damage when the sh-- goes wrong.

Do not allow the aircraft to touch down if you are not steady, and holding center line.

try not to do a three point, try to touch the tail wheel first. and when the tailwheel touches first it will force the angle of attack down and the aircraft will not fly off again.

when it touches down concentrate on holding center line. do not stop flying the aircraft.

until your in the chocks.

I have 8 ground loops, 6 of them have been in my fairchild, but I have never bent any metal.
 
Last edited:
Bones said:
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK IS THE MOST MYSETERIOUS THING ABOUT FLYING A TAIL-WHEEL AIRCRAFT?
Click to expand...

Nothing really mysterious, you just have to remember that the CG is behind the mains. Meaning, anytime the plane is on its wheels, the rear wants to pass the front. Anytime the plane is in motion. Taxiing,takeoff roll, landing roll, doesn't matter, that rear wants ahead. Your job on the rudders is to keep the rear back there.

IF YOU WANTED TO GET A TAIL WHEEL ENDORSEMENT WHAT ABILITIES AND COMPETANCE DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE WHEN YOU ARE SIGNED OFF?
Click to expand...

There is a FAR that covers this, but basically competent in all aspects of flight, including three point, wheel, and crosswind landings. Very key is crosswind landings, if you have any side drift, you will have your hands full.
Any ideas would greatly be appreciated! Thanks Everyone!

"There are those that Have, and Those that Will ground loop a conventional gear aircraft." ?
Click to expand...

The likelyhood is high. All it takes is one lapse in concentration...
 
No mistery behind taildraggers,

Just think that almost as soon as you apply power, the tail lifts, so you are not steering the plane using the wheel, but the aerodynamic surfaces. That´s it. You may need stepping some more on the rudder during the first stage of the take off, maybe you step too much... say... left, the way that the nose points to the left more than you thought. Then you step right, maybe too fast and too much because you didn´t spect it to turn that much left, the way that the plane´s now pointing its nose too much to the right, then again... But that´s only during your first couple of hours. Once you learn it´s not anything but a plane doing whatever you ask it to do, the goes eeeeeeasy.

More feet work is needed, sure, because of what I said before, but nothing special, just the myth created by us who fly taildraggers every once in a while (we make it to scare the cr*p outta you, nosewheel flyers, to keep all of the TD for ourselves).

Landing maybe a little harder. You don´t have now a prop showering the surfaces with air, so as you slow down, the effectiveness of the directional control becomes worse. This is the same for every airplane, but notice that while on a nosewheel, that wheel is on the ground with the "lift" of a heavy engine "pulling", on the taildragger you have a tail making something that tends to fly, so the tailwheel is not effective until you are really sloooow. Now, there´s a phase of the landing where you don´t have much control on the aerodynamic neither on the "rubber" controls. Then is when the phrase: "A good approach makes a good landing" has all its meaning. If you put the plane perfectly alligned, its natural tendency is maintainning that line for a while (you know, inertia. Something moving in certain direction tends to keep moving that way unless the pilot scr** everything up!), so it will be taking care of himself during that critical phase. If it doesn´t, well, you are not dead yet. You may find yourself dancing on the rudder a little more than you planned, but that´s it.

What do you need before soloing?
-Just what Jesse said. Train, feel comfortable in any possible situation, play a little with it, and you are ready.

Groundlooping a taildragger... I guess it´s like landing without the landing gear. Possible, but not something sure. I´ve landed a Citabria in asphalt, grass, mud, snow, ice... in days when the 172´s where grounded... and I haven´t done it... yet!!
 
You will land anything you fly better after the training, IMO. You will understand the "feel" of your aircraft better. You will learn to deal with cross winds in a way that the trike simply doesn't teach you. You will stop landing with ANY side load on your mains, in ANY aircraft. Even a little bit can make the ride REALLY challenging in a taildragger. Trust me, I got bitten about a month ago by that.

You will fly into grass strips that you probably wouldn't have considered in the trike you fly. You will learn to really enjoy the sights down low, depending on your power level. I fly a Champ so "low and slow" is cruise flight.

I can't recommend it enough. Even if you are not going to fly tailwheel aircraft down the road, the plane will just simply teach you more about the stick and the rudder than you knew before. Period. My skyhawk landings are so much softer and slower and nicer since I started flying the Champ.

Jim G
 
You wouldnt beleive where taildraggers land.I strongly suggest that anyone who hasnt seen "big rocks and long props" do so,you will simply be amazed. Landing a taildragger at an airport will look like a piece of cake compared to these landing sites.Taildraggers are not that difficult to fly,remember the first 40 years of aviation they were all taildraggers. If you dont fly a tailwheel near where i live ,you eliminate about 90% of the available landing areas.Remember dont land on tar,its hard on the tires.
 
Bill Jennings said:
The likelyhood is high. All it takes is one lapse in concentration...
Click to expand...
...or having a few things go wrong at the same time. My one and only ground loop was in a Starduster Too biplane on a day when the wind switched from a light headwind to a 15 kt quartering tailwind as I started my flare. To make the landing as interesting as possible both springs that connect the rudder to the tailwheel broke as I was fighting for control on the rollout (they had been replaced by another owner who shopped them at Menards). I did a lot of swerving yet managed to stay on the pavement but the final swerve which came at about 15 kt groundspeed went all the way around and the outside lower wing kissed the pavement just hard enough to scratch the paint on the very tip before the plane righted itself and I taxied carefully back to the hangar with shaking legs.
 
Bones said:
Was speaking with someone the other day about tail-wheel airplanes and the complexities of how to teach in them. And it got me to thinking and asking myself some questions and searching for some answers.

So I wanted to ask everyone a couple of questions on the subject.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK IS THE MOST MYSETERIOUS THING ABOUT FLYING A TAIL-WHEEL AIRCRAFT?

and

IF YOU WANTED TO GET A TAIL WHEEL ENDORSEMENT WHAT ABILITIES AND COMPETANCE DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE WHEN YOU ARE SIGNED OFF?

Any ideas would greatly be appreciated! Thanks Everyone!

BTW --for those of you that have T.W.E.s How many folks believe in the the addage "There are those that Have, and Those that Will ground loop a conventional gear aircraft." ?

Would love to hear everyones ideas! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Most mysterious..... probably what is directly in front of me when I taxi. That's a mystery. The bite though is the location of the CG in relationship to the landing gear, and the fact that with many small planes, that wheel doesn't lock, and that the coupling effect accellerates as it swings. This means that when the tail wants to come around, you have to stop it quickly or it will soon take an amount of force you can't generate, and the plane ground loops. This can range in problem from no damage, to total constructive loss.
 
Bones;

I remember a long time ago when I began flying and Tail Wheel Planes were called "Conventional Gear Planes" I spent my first 3-4 years of when I was a kid flying them and loved them. Yes you do have to "fly them" to the tie down or chocks but it is not hard to do. You just have to work on it.

I do remember flying my first "Tricycle Gear" plane and I scared the heck out of myself when I started to taxi it. I was use to from tail wheel planes using all the flight controls while taxing. Wow I was glad to go back to "Conventional Gear" planes. Over the years I did master the Tri Gear.

Have fun learning and enjoy.

John
 
Last edited:
Just to clear up the question a bit, Eric and I were discussing this topic when I got my CFI last week. I was asking him for tips on teaching tail wheel since he's done it before. Eric used to own a champ and still has the touch when it comes to flying conventional gear airplanes.
 
supercub185 said:
remember the first 40 years of aviation they were all taildraggers.
Click to expand...

Negative. The first planes with wheels were in tricycle configuration. Didn't go TD till tractor props.
 
I would agree that Eric is "touched" .

gibbons said:
Just to clear up the question a bit, Eric and I were discussing this topic when I got my CFI last week. I was asking him for tips on teaching tail wheel since he's done it before. Eric used to own a champ and still has the touch when it comes to flying conventional gear airplanes.
Click to expand...
 
Henning said:
Negative. The first planes with wheels were in tricycle configuration. Didn't go TD till tractor props.
Click to expand...
If you want to get picky, the first airplane didn't have any wheels attached to either end.
 
lancefisher said:
If you want to get picky, the first airplane didn't have any wheels attached to either end.
Click to expand...
I was going to post that, but then re-read Henning's post. He said "...the first planes with wheels..."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top