Taboo thread - How do we afford to fly?

Shepherd said:
I figured out, early in my career, that IBM was NOT my bosom buddy, protector and friend like they want you to believe.
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Amen. My org has great benes including 401(k) and a traditional pension plan. Even with these benes, I like to invest like they may not be there when I am ready to retire. Same with social security. Company retirement benes + social security will be icing on the cake when I'm ready to call it quits working.
 
I'm a GS-14 at a familiar aeronautical agency to many of you. I'm not sure what my wife makes, but it pays the mortgage and child care/clothes, etc. for our son. My salary covers savings, capital improvements, and of course my flying addiction.

Like cars and anything else other than a primary residence, we didn't borrow money to buy the $85k Cessna 182P 11 years ago. I suspect the plane hasn't lost much value even after 11.3 years and 1,169.3 hours of use. That's not to say I haven't written more than a few large checks along the way, but I refuse to calculate full hourly costs. My hangar is about $500/month but also serves as storage for a three kayaks, a utility trailer, random furniture and a surplus army vehicle that my wife won't let me bring home. All in all I probably spend about $15-18k a year on flying. About the same as renting but much more practical.
 
Bill said:
That's nucking futs!
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The worst part is that many people who buy into the Disney thing really can't afford it and don't even realize it. They're snowballed by Disney's pixie dust and instant gratification. There are threads on some of the Disney forums about selling blood plasma to pay for their trips! Take a look at the YouTube videos of people gushing about it. These aren't people with six-figure incomes, second homes, nor independently wealthy. Yet they're the ones staying at the Disney resorts, eating all of their meals in the parks/resorts, buying all of the souvenirs, etc.
 
AirHare said:
The worst part is that many people who buy into the Disney thing really can't afford it and don't even realize it. They're snowballed by Disney's pixie dust and instant gratification. There are threads on some of the Disney forums about selling blood plasma to pay for their trips! Take a look at the YouTube videos of people gushing about it. These aren't people with six-figure incomes, second homes, nor independently wealthy. Yet they're the ones staying at the Disney resorts, eating all of their meals in the parks/resorts, buying all of the souvenirs, etc.
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...and complaining about how the rich steal from the poor.
 
AirHare said:
The worst part is that many people who buy into the Disney thing really can't afford it and don't even realize it. They're snowballed by Disney's pixie dust and instant gratification. There are threads on some of the Disney forums about selling blood plasma to pay for their trips! Take a look at the YouTube videos of people gushing about it. These aren't people with six-figure incomes, second homes, nor independently wealthy. Yet they're the ones staying at the Disney resorts, eating all of their meals in the parks/resorts, buying all of the souvenirs, etc.
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My wife works with a guy that financed his Disney vacation. His wife barely works, and they are up to their eyeballs in debt.
 
AirHare said:
A friend who always seems to complain about money just bought into Disney's Vacation Club. 225 points. That works out to a $43,000 buy-in, $1,900/year recurring fees for the next 50 years, guaranteed to increase over time. Not including theme park tickets, airfare, meals, etc. Add those in and you're well into airplane ownership territory.
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Then what DOES that money get you?

Wait. Never mind. I don't care. Barnum was right.
 
DaleB said:
Then what DOES that money get you?

Wait. Never mind. I don't care. Barnum was right.
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I, oddly enough, was curious myself. if someone told me there was a disney vacation club, I would assume that included park tickets.
 
AirHare said:
The worst part is that many people who buy into the Disney thing really can't afford it and don't even realize it. They're snowballed by Disney's pixie dust and instant gratification.
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More than 15 years ago my wife and I went to Disney. Her first visit (we got to go as kids with grandparents living close). As a child who grew up on the Wonderful World of Disney she was enthralled. We took the Disney VC tour while we were "drunk on Disney" but we were sober enough to realize that it had zero applicability to us.

Time Shares work for a very narrow demographic. We have friends who have one and have loved it for 25+ years and swap for all over the world but for that amount of money I'd prefer to just figure it out ourselves sans the commitment.
 
I bought a timeshare for $1. Cost me $500/year for a week in a one bedroom unit on the beach in Puerto Vallarta or other places in MX and USA. It’s vanishes in 5 more years, with no more payments. Bought another one in London for $5000 and $750 a year for a two bedroom unit 100’ from High Street Kensington. That’s probably the going rate for two nights in a hotel. Sadly it was converted to flats selling for $500000 and up.

If timeshares float your boat, which clearly is not everybody, there’s lots of ways to make it useful but buying from the company like Disney, Hilton, Marriott etc is NOT the way to so it. TUG2.net is a great source if you’re even remotely interested. Anything over $5K is usually stupid and there’s good deals under $1K.

Cheers
 
AirHare said:
Why do people keep insisting flying is expensive?
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Because it is. I understand your argument and sure, there are definitely ways to cut costs, but that only goes so far. It sounds like you are fortunate to be in a good club. I was a club member for 25+ years and I saw a lot of folks come and go. The reason most quit flying was because of cost. After you have obtained your PPL and have flown for a while check back in with us and let us know how inexpensive it can be...
 
Age: 51
Current Plane: 1973 PA28-180, basic VFR, no GPS
Partnership: 1/3
Buy-In: $12,500
Monthly: $140
Hourly: $75/hr Wet
Annual Gross Income: $112,000. I'm single, my adult son lives with me and pays minimal rent.
Dream Plane: Mooney M20C. I have simple tastes.
 
How do I afford to fly? Charge every minute of it off as a business expense.
 
Different people have different ideas of expensive
 
idahoflier said:
Because it is. I understand your argument and sure, there are definitely ways to cut costs, but that only goes so far. It sounds like you are fortunate to be in a good club. I was a club member for 25+ years and I saw a lot of folks come and go. The reason most quit flying was because of cost. After you have obtained your PPL and have flown for a while check back in with us and let us know how inexpensive it can be...
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I paid about 3k for my PPL and own 1/3 of a C150 burning auto gas as a private airport club with $85/year dues. $600/year insurance divided by 3. Pay about $20/hour to fly.

So yes, it can be inexpensive. Sure we had a $6000 annual, but divide that by 3 and since the engine only has 800 hours, we will (fingers crossed) good for a while with $1000 annuals.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I paid about 3k for my PPL and own 1/3 of a C150 burning auto gas as a private airport club with $85/year dues. $600/year insurance divided by 3. Pay about $20/hour to fly.

So yes, it can be inexpensive. Sure we had a $6000 annual, but divide that by 3 and since the engine only has 800 hours, we will (fingers crossed) good for a while with $1000 annuals.
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Yes, I conceded above there are ways to cut costs and it looks like you have exploited all of them except for maybe dropping insurance. If what you have going satisfies your aviation fix, that's great! It wouldn't work for me, but to each their own...
 
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