T/O RVR question

[Eamon]

My T/O RVR mins are the same as my landing Mins.


If I am at IAH & the RVR for ILS 15 is 5000 (Plenty good).......


Can I take off on runway 26 with an RVR of 1600 (not good enought to land)


Let's say that ILS 15 is the one turned on.

Eamon

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

i havent looked it up, but it seems to me single engine part 91 rules, you could take of 0-0 if you REALLY wanted too. Legal (I think),probably not too wise.

 

[Arnold]

My T/O RVR mins are the same as my landing Mins.


If I am at IAH & the RVR for ILS 15 is 5000 (Plenty good).......
Can I take off on runway 26 with an RVR of 1600 (not good enought to land)
Let's say that ILS 15 is the one turned on.

Eamon

I think the answer to your question is that your departure runway must have the required RVR.

While the T/O mins specified in your ops specs do contemplate the ability to return to the field, that is not the only consideration.

My recollection of my ops specs from years ago, it's been 8.5 years since I last flew 121, is that the t/o mins were determined by a host of factors including the runway light system. I always understood them to be runway specific because for a 600/600 RVR take off I needed specific runway lights, (HIRL, CL, etc. ).

Remember whenever RVR is available it is controlling. RVR 1800 is the lowest published CAT I ILS landing mins. And this is only if you have specific runway lighting (otherwise, without CL and TDZ lights an 1800 RVR approach has RVR 2400, again if I remember correctly). Because the runway lights are as important for t/o as for landing in low vis, it would not seem logical to prohibit an RVR 1600 landing but allow an RVR 1600 take off.

Did this question come up during daily ops or was this a hypothetical?

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Eamon,
The first place is to look is your OPSPECs and that would be both C57 and C79. C57 will tell you what your viz or RVR MUST be better than or equal to if non standard T/O are NOT authorized. Which would probably be no less than a mile, but could be more. C79 will authorize you to use non standard T/O mins if they are authorized at your departure airport. Look on the approach plate for the non standard T/O icon. C79 will probably state something to the effect that if non standard T/O mins are authorized you can use the LOWEST straight in approach RVR for T/O. To wrap it all up, you won't ever do a T/O with less than 1800 RVR as anything below than starts to drift into CAT II land. Please remember to look for a takeoff alternate if you cannot complete an approach and landing to 1800 RVR.

 

[Arnold]

Eamon,
<SNIP> To wrap it all up, you won't ever do a T/O with less than 1800 RVR as anything below than starts to drift into CAT II

BUT, When I was flying 121 we had CAT I landing mins, but t/o mins as low as RVR 600/600 with proper lights and alternates. So I could never land below RVR 1800, but I could t/o as low as RVR 600/600. But again this ops spec may not be available for SE ops or maybe not available 135.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

You betcha. RVR 600 is available when things like RVR, C/L lights and HIRLs are available AND the big kicker TWO independant and redundant electrical systems (read that as two inverters running at all times cause I'm paraphasing here). C208's a great plane but with only one inverter(may actually have two but only one runs at a time if it has one at all) he's stuck to NLT 1800 RVR. Are you a former ATR 42/72 driver Arnold?

 

[Arnold]

You betcha. RVR 600 is available when things like RVR, C/L lights and HIRLs are available AND the big kicker TWO independant and redundant electrical systems (read that as two inverters running at all times cause I'm paraphasing here). C208's a great plane but with only one inverter(may actually have two but only one runs at a time if it has one at all) he's stuck to NLT 1800 RVR. Are you a former ATR 42/72 driver Arnold?

Yes, Simmons, now American Eagle May '88 - Nov '96. SD-3, AT42, AT72.
Also 135 Chief pilot (carrier now defunct) C-210 and PA-23.
Also 135 Line Capt (carrier now defunct) PA-30, PA-31, PA-34, PA-44, C-303 and here's the strange one - N24A.

All my 135 ops specs were the same as Eamons' appear to be, lower than standard, but no lower than the approach back in.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

N24A. Nomad. Got three or four of em right down the street. They can't go less than 1800 RVR either. Just kidding, had to look that one up.

 

[Arnold]

Re: T/O RVR question - warning thread creep

Here is a pic:

 

[CFIse]

My T/O RVR mins are the same as my landing Mins.
If I am at IAH & the RVR for ILS 15 is 5000 (Plenty good).......
Can I take off on runway 26 with an RVR of 1600 (not good enought to land)
Let's say that ILS 15 is the one turned on.
Eamon

It's all in the Ops Specs - but I'm familiar with an operation similar to yours and I suspect you can go. You need to have minimums for a return, but it doesn't have to be to the departure runway.

 

[121Dispatch]

With part 121, if you take off with vis/RVR below landing mins, you need a takeoff alternate. For a 2 engine aircraft, the T/O alternate must be at/above alternate mins, and be within one hour's flying time in still air with one engine inoperative. I believe the time goes up to 2 hours flying time for 3 or more engines...not 100% about that though.

 

[poadeleted20]

I think we can summarize the answer as saying the FAA-legality depends on what rules you're operating under.

Part 91 -- anything goes (subject to possible 91.13 charges if you prang).

Part 135 -- see your ops specs for details, but the basic rule per 135.217 is that you must have takeoff mins at that airport, but if it's above takeoff mins yet below landing mins at that airport, you must have an alternate airport within an hour away.

Part 121 -- Per 121.617, it's pretty much the same as 135 except if you have three or more engines the takeoff alternate can be two hours away, but again, ops specs drive the bottom line.