T-45 Down

Sounds like CFIT.
 
I see those in and out of CHA quite often. Wonder if it was one of them?

Sad to hear. :(
 
luvflyin said:
How did you get that? I couldn't see anything in that link that gave a clue to that?
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Simply the fact that there are two ejection seats on board and they didn't have to look for either of the pilots. Those are good seats and the pilots trust them, if they knew something was wrong it's hard to believe they wouldn't have tried to get out.
 
Cooter said:
Simply the fact that there are two ejection seats on board and they didn't have to look for either of the pilots. Those are good seats and the pilots trust them, if they knew something was wrong it's hard to believe they wouldn't have tried to get out.
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Ah.
 
I guess we'll have to wait for the AIB (or whatever the Navy calls it). Was it low level training gone wrong, or is there a possibility the OBOGS issue may have popped up again and finally got a crew? I know it was in the news months ago, but then nothing more came of it in the open media. I can easily imagine a hypoxia LOC scenario where neither IP nor SP pulled on the seat.

Tailwinds to the fallen, and sincere condolences to the surviving families. Seriously unforgiving business we're in, in spite of how many successful daily sorties we push year after year.
 
I don't remember the systems well enough to say for sure, but I thought that there were two separate OBOGS generators. I heard that they were flying below 10k with OBOGS disconnected until the issue got resolved. I haven't heard an update. I didn't lookup the location but if it was up around Chattanooga, there is a low level up there. A T-39 hit the terrain up there about 10 years ago.
 
I remember the last couple T-39 crashes.......the one you mention, and another before due to battery overheat/tail fire/airframe disintegration. Lotta young families that lost fathers............same can be said about this. RIP
 
hindsight2020 said:
I guess we'll have to wait for the AIB (or whatever the Navy calls it). Was it low level training gone wrong, or is there a possibility the OBOGS issue may have popped up again and finally got a crew? I know it was in the news months ago, but then nothing more came of it in the open media. I can easily imagine a hypoxia LOC scenario where neither IP nor SP pulled on the seat.

Tailwinds to the fallen, and sincere condolences to the surviving families. Seriously unforgiving business we're in, in spite of how many successful daily sorties we push year after year.
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OBOGS????
 
Flying the MTR and went down in Tellico Plains. 1052 goes right over that area. Coworker lives there.

The 2010 T-39 MTR crash happened about 30 miles south of there in Blue Ridge, Ga. The one in 2006 was a bit further west north of Calhoun, Ga.
 
Velocity173 said:
Flying the MTR and went down in Tellico Plains. 1052 goes right over that area. Coworker lives there.

The 2010 T-39 MTR crash happened about 30 miles south of there in Blue Ridge, Ga. The one in 2006 was a bit further west north of Calhoun, Ga.
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Left Blue Ridge in 2005 but saw a bunch on that route, F-18s, T-39s, C-130s mostly. Lake BR is a checkpoint I would think?
 
Velocity173 said:
Flying the MTR and went down in Tellico Plains.
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I know the place well, the Cherohala Skyway west terminus is there, great place to ride motorcycles. Lots of large things to hit there :frown:
 
mscard88 said:
Left Blue Ridge in 2005 but saw a bunch on that route, F-18s, T-39s, C-130s mostly. Lake BR is a checkpoint I would think?
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Yeah they're common in these parts. I try and maintain at least 1000 ft to provide a buffer with them. Been at 700 ft before and a T-39 passed opposite direction a few hundred feet below me. Very little warning on the TCAD in some cases.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I know the place well, the Cherohala Skyway west terminus is there, great place to ride motorcycles. Lots of large things to hit there :frown:
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Friend at work said it went down near the fish hatchery in the area.
 
Cooter said:
I don't remember the systems well enough to say for sure, but I thought that there were two separate OBOGS generators. I heard that they were flying below 10k with OBOGS disconnected until the issue got resolved. I haven't heard an update. I didn't lookup the location but if it was up around Chattanooga, there is a low level up there. A T-39 hit the terrain up there about 10 years ago.
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I believe there is only 1 OBOGS generator though I could definitely be wrong. My hypoxia incident in the T-45 both of us got hypoxic, but that was obviously before whatever rework they just did to recommence training. I heard the same re new OBOGS procedures a few months ago; not sure if they've changed since training resumed. "Mask on" is part of the LAT checklist but they may have waived that for the OBOGS issues. They were on the VR late in the day... plenty dangerous without OBOGS problems. Wont know until the investigation is complete, if at all.

RIP
 
Velocity173 said:
Reading about the Star Wars Canyon accident got me thinking about whatever happened to the results of this one. Well, it wasn’t OBOGS. Stark reminder of the dangers of low level flight and how tactical occasionally transitions into something else. Sad deal.

https://news.usni.org/2018/04/16/findings-command-investigation-fatal-october-t-45c-goshawk-crash
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d. As documented in the Second Endorsement, the IP was “flat hatting” (flight conducted at low altitude and/or a high rate of speed for thrill purposes) during various parts of this particular cross-country training event, and actively encouraged/instructed his SNA to follow his example.

The investigation further demonstrated that this IP was overly confident, nonchalant, and aggressive at low altitude training, with limited awareness of the performance capabilities of the T-45C in the LAAT environment. This attitude influenced the IP’s instructional style, and conditioned the SNA to fly the aircraft in an aggressive manner, without correction from the IP.



Now tell us how you really feel Mr reviewer.
 
From page 54 and onward:
257. At 20:03:47 UTC, LT Ruth instructed LTJG Burch to stop pulling and asked what he was doing.

275. At 20:03:48 UTC, an "eject" call was transmitted over the Intercomm System (ICS) and was the final ICS transmission of the flight.
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285. At 20:03:51 UTC, the aircraft contacted multiple trees before impacting the ground, right wing down at Longitude 35.280300 degrees North / Latitude 084.097950 degrees West.

296. The survivable ejection envelope available to LT Ruth and LTJG Burch expired between 20:03:48 and 20:03:49.
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4 seconds from stall to crash. 1 or 2 seconds from making it out alive...
 
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1. Eastern Tennessee is one of those really beautiful places to fly where little mistakes can kill you.
Maybe not relevant but still important.
2. This entire OBOGS situation is ridiculous. Why in the world can't we build working oxygen systems for these military aircraft?

RIP
 
Love how the TACAIR/11F mafia always has to throw that spear in for good measure (Opinion 22). They just had to bring up his E-2 background. Clearly a Hornet guy wouldn't bone up with a student. Teaching circles is hard yo. :rolleyes:
giphy.gif

:D

Jest aside, that dude boned up wholesale and took a young guy with him. There's plenty about this assignment for some folks to feel unaccomplished, underwhelmed, frustrated by, but it is a serious and challenging duty nonetheless. It's not to be trifled with or condescend to, as it can bite ya quick. Particular condolences to the student's family, I bet reading that narrative has to be heart ripping. Mentorship is a greater responsibility than meets the cursory eye.
 
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