Swap-a-plane???

Would you participate in or use a Swap-a-Plane as described?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • No

    Votes: 6 40.0%

  • Need more information

    Votes: 4 26.7%

  • Are you freakin' crazy?

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
Threefingeredjack

Threefingeredjack

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Threefingeredjack
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I'm sure you have all experienced the same thing I have on occasion: You're on vacation somewhere and while waiting to tee-off or while driving around it hits you, It sure would be nice to fly this area. Most places in the country have planes for rent, IF you want to spend three hours with an instructor from the FBO to meet the insurance requirements. This has always struck me as a rip-off, since the one time I actually did this I owned a Comanche 250 and wanted to rent a 172, I was an active duty military pilot with over 10k hours and at the time flying the USCG version of the Dassault Falcon 20, the HU-25. So the question is: There are many house swap organizations for vacations, would you be interested in a plane swap? (Of course currency, appropriate ratings, and a temporary insurance rider would be required.)
 
:no: :no: :no: I've done the sign off thing at a few places on the other side of the country that I fly the airlines too. The last time I went to Memphis, I could have just picked up the keys to the Cessna 150 but I asked for an instructor because I hadn't flown one in a year and a half and I don't hang out aroud Class B airspace that much. If I just want to go on a joy ride, I just tell a CFI to hop in with me and if we dink around enough to call it a check out, I'm good to go for next time, if we don't oh well. I don't care if you've been flying the space shuttle, I'd want someone to ride with my my CFI and get his blessing before I turned them lose in my plane, still probably wouldn't do it though.
 
bartmc said:
:no: :no: :no: I've done the sign off thing at a few places on the other side of the country that I fly the airlines too. The last time I went to Memphis, I could have just picked up the keys to the Cessna 150 but I asked for an instructor because I hadn't flown one in a year and a half and I don't hang out aroud Class B airspace that much. If I just want to go on a joy ride, I just tell a CFI to hop in with me and if we dink around enough to call it a check out, I'm good to go for next time, if we don't oh well. I don't care if you've been flying the space shuttle, I'd want someone to ride with my my CFI and get his blessing before I turned them lose in my plane, still probably wouldn't do it though.
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I don't have a problem with that approach, but the three hours that most FBOs require seems a little excessive. If it takes that long to demonstrate your abilities there is either something wrong with you, or the CFI.
 
I would most definitely put my plane into an international plane share program; you bet. I never got ripped off on a 152/172 check out until last time. I have typically gone up for 1 hr & 3 landings and that was done and total cost to check out and rent everywhere in the world I could find a 172 with an N tail (frequent), even Germany Private Day VFR privilege was a free translation ticket for D tail; that was all I needed to take family for a ride.

There's plenty of guys with enough multi and 310 to come in on an OPW. My requirements were not that bad.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
I don't have a problem with that approach, but the three hours that most FBOs require seems a little excessive. If it takes that long to demonstrate your abilities there is either something wrong with you, or the CFI.
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I've never experienced a 3hr checkout. Just went to zululog and found that my last two were both 1.3hrs One was a Cessna 150 and the other was a Cessna 172.
 
I think that this should be done on a type by type basis. If you fly a 172 at home and have X amount of 30 or 60 day experience, then you can trade for a 172 somewhere else with no checkout. 182 for 182, Warrior for Warrior, Mooney for Mooney.

Andrew
 
I've not had a three hour checkout in a plane I already new how to fly either and I've done Skyhawk checkouts in Virginia, Denver, and Australia in the past ten years.
 
Biggest barrier is psychological. Most everyone thinks there's no good reason others shouldn't let them fly that other person's plane, but when it comes to letting others take their plane, it's a different story.
 
Henning said:
I would most definitely put my plane into an international plane share program; you bet. I never got ripped off on a 152/172 check out until last time. I have typically gone up for 1 hr & 3 landings and that was done and total cost to check out and rent everywhere in the world I could find a 172 with an N tail (frequent), even Germany Private Day VFR privilege was a free translation ticket for D tail; that was all I needed to take family for a ride.

There's plenty of guys with enough multi and 310 to come in on an OPW. My requirements were not that bad.
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:) I'll be right down, love the 310.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
I don't have a problem with that approach, but the three hours that most FBOs require seems a little excessive. If it takes that long to demonstrate your abilities there is either something wrong with you, or the CFI.
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Three hours? I think the CFI at the new flight school said I was a pilot with very "low hours" but even then, with two weekend flights I got the checkout done in under 3 hours. Probaby 2 hours or 2 something, but again that was because:

In the Cessna 172, it was a HORRIBLE day for a checkout. I waited all day but the winds got worse and worse. I wanted to fly so bad I asked the CFI if we could "just go up" to practice crosswind landings / take advantage of the wind. She didn't do any of the checkout stuff, which had to wait until the following weekend. So two flights, the check out written quiz, and I was signed off.

In the Cessna 150, she didn't like my landings and though we did many patterns, she had another student and we had to call it a day. That, too, had to wait until the following weekend to be signed off.
 
To paraphrase the Russian ambassador from Dr. Strangelove:

But I don't have a plane.
 
Use of OPW for pilots not named on the policy puts all of the risk on the owner. Why would anybody accept such an arrangement in exchange for a few bucks of revenue or some pie-in-the-sky future use of somebody else's airplane? Gotta be nuts to take that deal.

Just pay the instructor to fly around with you so you can relax and look out the window. Win-win for everybody.
 
wabower said:
Use of OPW for pilots not named on the policy puts all of the risk on the owner. Why would anybody accept such an arrangement in exchange for a few bucks of revenue or some pie-in-the-sky future use of somebody else's airplane? Gotta be nuts to take that deal.

Just pay the instructor to fly around with you so you can relax and look out the window. Win-win for everybody.
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You cover the risk through a non owner rider to the policy on your own plane. Everybody in the club carries the same policy structure through an insurer contracted through the club. Everybody is insured in everything they are rated for by insuring their own plane.
 
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So the cats eat the rats and the rats eat the cats and the cat-and-rat rancher gets rich. Somehow I think this deal has been around a few times already.

Henning said:
You cover the risk through a non owner rider to the policy on your own plane. Everybody in the club carries the same policy structure through an insurer contracted through the club. Everybody is insured in everything they are rated for by insuring their own plane.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
So the cats eat the rats and the rats eat the cats and the cat-and-rat rancher gets rich. Somehow I think this deal has been around a few times already.
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If it has been, I've sure missed it. I wish I had quick access to GA planes around the country and world, I would have signed up for that a hell of a long time ago.
 
You can safely assume that no tern has been left unstoned insofar as people trying to figure out various ways to fly airplanes. The record of success speaks for itself.

Henning said:
If it has been, I've sure missed it. I wish I had quick access to GA planes around the country and world, I would have signed up for that a hell of a long time ago.
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I wouldn't do it. I would just pay a CFI to ride shotgun. Probably cheaper in the long run.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
I'm sure you have all experienced the same thing I have on occasion: You're on vacation somewhere and while waiting to tee-off or while driving around it hits you, It sure would be nice to fly this area. Most places in the country have planes for rent, IF you want to spend three hours with an instructor from the FBO to meet the insurance requirements. This has always struck me as a rip-off, since the one time I actually did this I owned a Comanche 250 and wanted to rent a 172, I was an active duty military pilot with over 10k hours and at the time flying the USCG version of the Dassault Falcon 20, the HU-25. So the question is: There are many house swap organizations for vacations, would you be interested in a plane swap? (Of course currency, appropriate ratings, and a temporary insurance rider would be required.)
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As one that has done checkouts for both active-duty army and airforce pilots I will say that just because they can fly in the military does not mean they'll be capable of flying a Cessna or Cherokee VFR to an airport 30 miles away without any structure or guidance. They generally have a very poor understanding of airspace, systems, and how to fly VFR. Not knowing the systems of a 172 will kill you just as quickly as not knowing the systems of a fighter jet.

A typical checkout with me will involve me spending a few minutes talking to you and looking at your logbook. I'll have you calculate a weight and balance and may talk about the performance charts depending on experience in type and recency. After that it's generally about a hour of flying. I'll either know at the end of that hour if they're good to go or if they need more work.

The flying will typically consist of: steep turns, slow flight, stalls, emergency procedures, and a few landings at an airport other then the one we departed from.

I also cover the systems in detail from the avionics, to the fuel, to the ventilation and door lock. If they haven't flown at this airport before I'll give them pointers as to how LNK runs things and the best way to find the airport coming from each direction.
 
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I can count on one hand the amount of people I would let fly my airplane without me in it.

2 of them have already posted in this thread.
 
SCCutler said:
Hertz had a rent-a-plane scheme in the late 50s or so, like this. Heard of it lately?
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I asked Sue Blosse about that years ago, she said there wasn't enough business to make it worth while. It wasn't Hertz actually doing it corporate, it was like the franchise side with FBOs as the franchisees, they were a booking service basically. Just not enough pilots to make it worth it.
 
I find it strange that you can walk into an auto or truck rental, show your license and drive off with a vehicle but aviation requires a checkout. No one ever asks you hour many hours in type do you have or asks to view your log.
So far, all of my checkouts have been in the 1 to 2 hour range. Not onerous but not an equivalent checkride. The shortest was a trip around the patch with a significant crosswind; the longest was 28 miles with a landing at a class D which was sprung on me after take off.
I find it easier to take along an instructor on a sightseeing tour since he should know the area pretty well. You pick up some of the local procedures and reporting points. Use that as your checkout, get your signoff, then go.
 
silver-eagle said:
I find it strange that you can walk into an auto or truck rental, show your license and drive off with a vehicle but aviation requires a checkout.
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Not really that strange due to the fact that most everybody has been driving 5 years by the time they qualify to rent a car while you can rent a plane with minimal experience. Then there are the repair costs involved. All these requirements are layed down by the insurance, if not an FBO would be happy to take your money and do nothing.
 
jesse said:
As one that has done checkouts for both active-duty army and airforce pilots I will say that just because they can fly in the military does not mean they'll be capable of flying a Cessna or Cherokee VFR to an airport 30 miles away without any structure or guidance. They generally have a very poor understanding of airspace, systems, and how to fly VFR. Not knowing the systems of a 172 will kill you just as quickly as not knowing the systems of a fighter jet.

A typical checkout with me will involve me spending a few minutes talking to you and looking at your logbook. I'll have you calculate a weight and balance and may talk about the performance charts depending on experience in type and recency. After that it's generally about a hour of flying. I'll either know at the end of that hour if they're good to go or if they need more work.

The flying will typically consist of: steep turns, slow flight, stalls, emergency procedures, and a few landings at an airport other then the one we departed from.

I also cover the systems in detail from the avionics, to the fuel, to the ventilation and door lock. If they haven't flown at this airport before I'll give them pointers as to how LNK runs things and the best way to find the airport coming from each direction.
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Jesse and I think a LOT a like. I think we've probably had similar experiences. I'm as frustrated as anyone over not being able to go somewhere and rent something quickly and easily, but a look at the general cross-section of checkouts I've given would tell me that the system is there for a reason.

Personally, I think one could perhaps set up a system for pilots who fly enough to stay proficient, and have enough friends to "vouch" for them.

For instance, maybe if I knew that David was competent, and so did Jesse, we could give him an endorsement that an insurer and larger "share a plane" or aircraft rental club would accept and as long as he maintained a minimum level of currency, and reported that (online logbook style) to the insurer to maintain his status, he could rent any aircraft of a type that he had flown within the last three months that was available without a checkout.

The big thing there is if there is anything installed that might require a bit more knowledge on how to operate. I still give checkouts to pilots who are pretty clueless on how to use a Garmin 430...

Ryan
 
silver-eagle said:
I find it easier to take along an instructor on a sightseeing tour since he should know the area pretty well. You pick up some of the local procedures and reporting points. Use that as your checkout, get your signoff, then go.
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Careful with that. The instructor probably shouldn't have done that if he's not under the sightseeing rules.

Ryan
 
jesse said:
As one that has done checkouts for both active-duty army and airforce pilots I will say that just because they can fly in the military does not mean they'll be capable of flying a Cessna or Cherokee VFR to an airport 30 miles away without any structure or guidance. They generally have a very poor understanding of airspace, systems, and how to fly VFR. Not knowing the systems of a 172 will kill you just as quickly as not knowing the systems of a fighter jet.

A typical checkout with me will involve me spending a few minutes talking to you and looking at your logbook. I'll have you calculate a weight and balance and may talk about the performance charts depending on experience in type and recency. After that it's generally about a hour of flying. I'll either know at the end of that hour if they're good to go or if they need more work.

The flying will typically consist of: steep turns, slow flight, stalls, emergency procedures, and a few landings at an airport other then the one we departed from.

I also cover the systems in detail from the avionics, to the fuel, to the ventilation and door lock. If they haven't flown at this airport before I'll give them pointers as to how LNK runs things and the best way to find the airport coming from each direction.
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WOW If that is true I am very surprised. I find it extremely hard to believe that any military aviator could climb into an aircraft and be unable to navigate with a chart and compass 30 miles to a specified destination. I can't speak for all military aviators, but I constantly worked with civilian airspace control systems, was VERY familiar with airspace rules, and flew a majority of my thousands of hours in rotors and fixed wing VFR. I understand that the type of missions I flew were radically different than most military pilots, but a low search over the water is not nearly as challenging as nap of the earth contact flying such as you encounter in assault maneuvers in a transport or single seater. I also would humbly submit that the systems of a 172 should present no mystery to ANY licensed pilot, even the highly complex ventilation system.
 
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