SWA LaGuardia

So SWA clientele are the dregs of society in your opinion? :rolleyes:

Is a frogs ass water-tight ? Does the Pope wear a funny hat ? One of my best friend's wife is a Flight Attendant for Southwest. The stories she relates to us make much of what you may have seen on the A&E's channel reality show "Airline" seem down right tame.
 
Correct. I tried to ride on Southwest once but since I wasn't falling down drunk or from a trailer park they refused me.

Ignorance is worst when displayed publicly, for all to see.
 
Is a frogs ass water-tight ? Does the Pope wear a funny hat ? One of my best friend's wife is a Flight Attendant for Southwest. The stories she relates to us make much of what you may have seen on the A&E's channel reality show "Airline" seem down right tame.

Ah, ok. :rolleyes2:

So tell us the airline you fly for so we can make an accurate comparison? :yes:
 
So exactly how would any of the alleged almost-but-not-quite-unsafe behaviors of zipping around the taxiways and ramps and throttling up while lining up with the departure runways have anything to do with the nosewheel-first landing discussed here? Is the argument that because of the Southwest "hurry-up" culture, the crew had already flared, settled, and lowered the nosegear before actually touching down? :dunno:
 
Ignorance is worst when displayed publicly, for all to see.

It's got to be pretty handy actually - if ever you're in a strange airport and you can't find the Southwest boarding gates just look for a long line of people that sound and resemble the patrons of a Tractor-Pull and BINGO there's your line and here's your sign !
 
It's got to be pretty handy actually - if ever you're in a strange airport and you can't find the Southwest boarding gates just look for a long line of people that sound and resemble the patrons of a Tractor-Pull and BINGO there's your line and here's your sign !

He nailed the description of you, Spike! :)
 
So exactly how would any of the alleged almost-but-not-quite-unsafe behaviors of zipping around the taxiways and ramps and throttling up while lining up with the departure runways have anything to do with the nosewheel-first landing discussed here? Is the argument that because of the Southwest "hurry-up" culture, the crew had already flared, settled, and lowered the nosegear before actually touching down? :dunno:

Yeah, being unsafe in one area of operation almost never carries over to others :rolleyes:
 
And no one here ever exceeds posted speed limits... Right...

And it carries over into everything else they do... Right...

Funny you should mention that - I had two friends that were denied employment by United Airlines because of having speeding tickets on their current driving record.
 
Funny you should mention that - I had two friends that were denied employment by United Airlines because of having speeding tickets on their current driving record.

Cool. I'm one of those annoying people who drive the speed limit. In another thread here long ago, that demographic is in short supply here. ;)
 
Cool. I'm one of those annoying people who drive the speed limit. In another thread here long ago, that demographic is in short supply here. ;)

Fortunately as well you live in a state where you are required to keep the passing lane clear ! I wonder if that law has any connection to or with your marijuana legalization ?:D
 
Fortunately as well you live in a state where you are required to keep the passing lane clear ! I wonder if that law has any connection to or with your marijuana legalization ?:D

Just curious, which airline do you fly for?
 
Yeah, being unsafe in one area of operation almost never carries over to others :rolleyes:

So...all those other carriers whose fantastic safety culture makes them behave better on the ground also see that superior safety culture reflected in their other operations, and thus have fewer passenger injuries/fatalities than Southwest?
 
So...all those other carriers whose fantastic safety culture makes them behave better on the ground also see that superior safety culture reflected in their other operations, and thus have fewer passenger injuries/fatalities than Southwest?

So you would argue that a "good" safety culture has absolutely nothing to do with safety ?
 
So you would argue that a "good" safety culture has absolutely nothing to do with safety ?

No. But I would also argue that if you're not killing your passengers, that also has something to do with safety.
 
It's got to be pretty handy actually - if ever you're in a strange airport and you can't find the Southwest boarding gates just look for a long line of people that sound and resemble the patrons of a Tractor-Pull and BINGO there's your line and here's your sign !

Amusing irony: of all the airlines, the only one with a boarding system which absolutely, positively does not require lining up to board, is Southwest. You can, in fact, remain seated until your turn to board comes, then your place in line is guaranteed and certain. It's a nice difference, one I (as a business flyer) appreciate. When I fly commercial. Which I try to avoid.

He nailed the description of you, Spike! :)

Guilty as charged, Mari. :yes: But, I have made certain lifestyle changes which you may note when your globe trotting resumes (which I trust will occur ASAP); key among them, regular bathing.

'Course, "monthly" is "regular," ain't it? :wink2:
 
AA has had 4 accidents that I can remember Little Rock, JFK, Columbia, and the 737 a few years ago. Doesn't matter who's name is on the tail, it can happen to anyone. I don't worry about the safety factor of one US carrier over another.
Actually, the logo on the tail does matter somewhat. Per the NTSB, AMR has the worst accident rate of all majors. US Airways and Alaska have by far the least. As much as I can't stand Doug Parker, even if you combine US Airways accident record with America West's before the merge, they are still better than SWA or the others.
 
Amusing irony: of all the airlines, the only one with a boarding system which absolutely, positively does not require lining up to board, is Southwest. You can, in fact, remain seated until your turn to board comes, then your place in line is guaranteed and certain.
Maybe I missed something, but the last two times I flew Southwest, the gate agents made everyone line up in their boarding groups in numerical order for boarding (ie if your boarding number was 33, you had to stand in line behind 32 who was lined up behind 31).

I don't know if they were trying something new or what, but it made me feel like I was back in elementary school.
 
Maybe I missed something, but the last two times I flew Southwest, the gate agents made everyone line up in their boarding groups in numerical order for boarding (ie if your boarding number was 33, you had to stand in line behind 32 who was lined up behind 31).

I don't know if they were trying something new or what, but it made me feel like I was back in elementary school.

Southwest has boarding group "Gates" (I'm sure there's a better name for it, but I can't recall what it is) by which your boarding sequence is assured to within five numbers; hence, there is no need to rise from your comfortable waiting seat (at which Southwest, in many locations, has thoughtfully provided power ports for your phone or laptop) until it is time for your group to go, whereupon you can casually stroll to the proper location (based upon your boarding pass), and calmly stroll on. This is in stark contrast to other airlines, which board by groups, requiring that you all clump of in-line, jockeying for position to be at or near the front of your particular "group."

So you do have to be in the right general area numerically (like I said, within five), but you don't have to get into precise sequence. You also don't have to worry about somebody with a less advantageous number skunking up in front of you.

Because you can assure yourself an early boarding number on Southwest by simply checking in 24 hours before (or for a few bucks more, you can buy your way to the front line), you have reasonable control over where you are in the boarding process. No matter where you are, though, you don't have to worry about people "line jumping" or trying to cram their way up to the front of a line (the "line" is usually three or four people wide at the front, in most airline boarding areas, with people trying to slither in like snakes all the time).

Now, if you fly a traditional airline with sufficient frequency that you have high-mileage status, you may be able to bypass all that and board first, but I don't fly commercial enough of us ever to occur (and I am fine with that).

The other thing that makes the boarding process less onerous with Southwest is that, because there is no charge for checking bags, there're fewer passengers rolling on "barely big enough to fit" bags to get in the way, delay boarding and fill-up the overheads.

Still and all, it's all in what you're used to; in the process of flying commercial is so god awful, consulting and offensive anyway, that I avoid it like the plague, and fortunately for me, most of my business travel can be taken care of In the Bonanza. Plus, with what American Airlines charges for walk-up fares from DFW, it's usually cheaper to fly my own plane (and that's saying something).

TWIST: He works for Southwest.

Now that would be a twist, indeed! :rofl: Also, a bit of a surprise; my experience with people who work for Southwest Airlines (and a great many it is, since they are based here) is that, as a group, they tend to be pretty well-adjusted, friendly, polite and service oriented. Perhaps they are just happy, because they're paid well and have excellent profit-sharing.
 
So as long as there aren't any fatalities then it's all right ?

Not exactly. But I do think it's pretty darn important, and not exactly unrelated to the argument of whether Southwest fosters a culture of safety or not.

40 years and tens of millions of flights without a fatality don't...happen by accident.
 
<snip>
The other thing that makes the boarding process less onerous with Southwest is that, because there is no charge for checking bags, there're fewer passengers rolling on "barely big enough to fit" bags to get in the way, delay boarding and fill-up the overheads.

<snip>.
That makes life a bit easier for me going to trade shows too. Most shows are only a few days, so a modest roller bag carry-on is sufficient, but I can't take a small knife on board to open boxes- needs to be checked. SWA let's me check that bag without dealing with another item/receipt on the expense report. The TSA seemed like they would allow small pocket knives as carry-on items, but the pilots/FAs put a stop to that! We buy new tools at Home Depot then throw them out after the show. It's cheaper than the $25 the other airlines charge for a checked bag.

SWA always seemed professional to me and I assume that carries over to other parts of their operation.
 
Southwest has boarding group "Gates" (I'm sure there's a better name for it, but I can't recall what it is) by which your boarding sequence is assured to within five numbers; hence, there is no need to rise from your comfortable waiting seat (at which Southwest, in many locations, has thoughtfully provided power ports for your phone or laptop) until it is time for your group to go, whereupon you can casually stroll to the proper location (based upon your boarding pass), and calmly stroll on. This is in stark contrast to other airlines, which board by groups, requiring that you all clump of in-line, jockeying for position to be at or near the front of your particular "group."

So you do have to be in the right general area numerically (like I said, within five), but you don't have to get into precise sequence. You also don't have to worry about somebody with a less advantageous number skunking up in front of you.
That is how they advertise it, but like I said, the last couple times I flew SWA they literally made you line up in numerical order one after the other like school kids and they even did that for those of us who were in 'Business Select'. This was less than 18 months ago.


Also, a bit of a surprise; my experience with people who work for Southwest Airlines (and a great many it is, since they are based here) is that, as a group, they tend to be pretty well-adjusted, friendly, polite and service oriented. Perhaps they are just happy, because they're paid well and have excellent profit-sharing.
I totally agree that Southwest employees are generally happy and content, but I think it is a holdover from the pinnacle of the Herb days that folks seem to think Southwest is the only airline like that.

It's true - For the first 3 decades of Southwest's existence, the other majors laughed at Herb and generally made fun of SWA while running their own operations into the ground. But that was then....alot has changed. Herb retired and SWA has become more and more like the other majors while some of the others have eaten a little crow and improved their way of doing things. 10 years ago, I was a die hard Southwest fan, but in the last 5 or so, I have seen them care less and less about people. The Flight Attendant humor and jokes get old and stale. No, they of course don't have the disgruntled employees that American has these days, but they are no where near the only airline with happy employees.

I know folks who work for Southwest and they are very happy. I also know that for every story I hear of Southwest taking care of its employees, I have heard almost identical stories from friends at Delta. Delta for example went through its own dark period post-9/11, but has really come about with regards to taking care of its employees. I have one friend who quit FEDEX to take a MD-88 right seat job with Delta and loves it. I also have another friend who's wife was terminally ill with cancer and Delta did everything they could to support him through the process (even upgraded him to Captain from FO when he was ready to come back to work).
 
Those pesky regionals, all flying small planes and crashing them more often then the Majors.... Oh wait a second :lol:
 
Those pesky regionals, all flying small planes and crashing them more often then the Majors.... Oh wait a second :lol:
The regionals are slightly better than the majors. If you look up American, the NTSB database will give you 79 hits for the last 13 years. 42 of those are mainline AA, 37 are Eagle. The other regionals were a little better than that.
 
The regionals are slightly better than the majors. If you look up American, the NTSB database will give you 79 hits for the last 13 years. 42 of those are mainline AA, 37 are Eagle. The other regionals were a little better than that.

Yeah, and I think the numbers will change over the next several decades, as well. The Regionals continue to do more and more domestic flying so by virtue of numbers they will have more accidents, but the accident rates will probably not change.
 
NTSB sent out an update today:

August 6, 2013

WASHINGTON – In its continuing investigation of the July 22 accident in which Southwest Airlines flight 345, a B-737-700, landed hard at New York’s LaGuardia Airport (LGA), the National Transportation Safety Board has developed the following factual information:

• The captain has been with Southwest for almost 13 years and has been a captain for six of those years. The captain has over 12,000 total flight hours, over 7,000 of which are as pilot-in-command. In 737s, the captain has over 7,900 hours, with more than 2,600 as the pilot-in-command.

• The first officer has been with Southwest for about 18 months. The pilot has about 5,200 total flight hours, with 4,000 of those as pilot-in-command. In 737s, the first officer has about 1,100 hours, none of which are as the pilot-in-command.

• This was the first trip the flight crew had flown together and it was the second leg of the trip. The first officer had previous operational experience at LGA, including six flights in 2013. The captain reported having flown into LGA twice, including the accident flight, serving as the pilot monitoring for both flights.

• The en route phase of the flight, which originated in Nashville, was characterized by the flight crew as routine. On approach into LGA, the first officer was the pilot flying and the captain was the pilot monitoring. SWA 345 was cleared for the ILS Runway 04 approach.

• The weather in the New York area caused the accident flight to enter a holding pattern for about 15 minutes. The crew reported that they saw the airport from about 5-10 miles out and that the airplane was on speed, course and glideslope down to about 200-400 feet.

• The crew reported that below 1,000 feet, the tailwind was about 11 knots. They also reported that the wind on the runway was a headwind of about 11 knots.

• SWA 345 proceeded on the approach when at a point below 400 feet, there was an exchange of control of the airplane and the captain became the flying pilot and made the landing.

• The jetliner touched down on the runway nose first followed by the collapse of the nose gear; the airplane was substantially damaged.

At this point in the investigation, no mechanical anomalies or malfunctions have been found. A preliminary examination of the nose gear indicated that it failed due to stress overload.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
So, the FO flew the approach and the Captain took the controls at 400' and was PF for the touchdown.

I am not a 121 guy.....Does that sound normal?
 
That is how they advertise it, but like I said, the last couple times I flew SWA they literally made you line up in numerical order one after the other like school kids and they even did that for those of us who were in 'Business Select'. This was less than 18 months ago.



I totally agree that Southwest employees are generally happy and content, but I think it is a holdover from the pinnacle of the Herb days that folks seem to think Southwest is the only airline like that.

It's true - For the first 3 decades of Southwest's existence, the other majors laughed at Herb and generally made fun of SWA while running their own operations into the ground. But that was then....alot has changed. Herb retired and SWA has become more and more like the other majors while some of the others have eaten a little crow and improved their way of doing things. 10 years ago, I was a die hard Southwest fan, but in the last 5 or so, I have seen them care less and less about people. The Flight Attendant humor and jokes get old and stale. No, they of course don't have the disgruntled employees that American has these days, but they are no where near the only airline with happy employees.

I know folks who work for Southwest and they are very happy. I also know that for every story I hear of Southwest taking care of its employees, I have heard almost identical stories from friends at Delta. Delta for example went through its own dark period post-9/11, but has really come about with regards to taking care of its employees. I have one friend who quit FEDEX to take a MD-88 right seat job with Delta and loves it. I also have another friend who's wife was terminally ill with cancer and Delta did everything they could to support him through the process (even upgraded him to Captain from FO when he was ready to come back to work).

I always heard good stuff about Delta...
 
So, the FO flew the approach and the Captain took the controls at 400' and was PF for the touchdown.

I am not a 121 guy.....Does that sound normal?

Haven't seen that technique except on an actual Cat II approach in the 727 where the PNF was lookng outside for the runway and took it at low altitude for the landing. It's been over a decade since that technique was droped though. Can't imagine why you would do it after having seen the airport five miles out.
 
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