Survived da sump without being a chump!

mikea

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Feb 12, 2005
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16,975
Location
Lake County, IL
Display Name
iWin
Home Airfield
C81
My mom wanted to come visit the new house. Just what I needed. I went nuts and wore myself out dragging junk to the basement and finally tearing out the carpeting in the 2nd bedroom.

Remember when they weather service issued a flood warning?

As I went into the basement level last night I heard a loud gurgling from the furnace floor registers. They are in the poured concrete floor and the home inspector and my buddy said they were full of gunk from previous flooding. :hairraise:

The floor wasn't flooded. Talking to a buddy I figured it wasn't good for the furnace to be trying to blow through water.

I had thoughts of getting an all purpose pump and pumping out the ducts.

During this time I see my new neighbor who is builder and told him I'd appreciate his advice. He mentioned he had a new sump pump that he replaced that he didn't need. He had to run an errand but would help me later.

I checked the circuit breaker for the sump pump. It was OK.

Now I had to take a look. The sump is outside at the lower level entrance. I thought the entry door was bolted shut. I couldn't open it from the inside. I had no intentions to try get to the lower level entrance until we had a thaw. II had to trod through snow in the front yard up to my shins, try to find the stairs...I fell on my behind.

The sump pit was full of water to the brim - about 3-4 feet above the pump.

My neighbor gives me his new unneeded sump pump. He also looked at my old one while we tried to figure out if it was getting power. We thought the circuit was dead so I scrounged up an extension cord and put it out a window. Still no joy.

I told him I'd wait until I had light to see. We planned to drop the new pump alongside the old one and run a hose out as a temporary fix.

This morning as soon as I could get moving I visited Ace Hardware with the new pump and with their help picked up a PVC pipe and fittings, a check valve, two sump hoses, etc. When I couldn't make it work otherwise, I got PVC cement, abrasive, and $2 hacksaw.

When I made the trek through the snow to the sump box again, I got brave and pulled up the old pump. I saw that the connection to the drain line was separated and it wasn't so convoluted that I couldn't replace it with the new one. Like all things plumbing and electrical in the old house it obviously hadn't been touched since the 1980s.

I checked the door on both sides and figured out that it was only a bad door latch holding it closed. The previous owners were so lame they had dug out the door frame to allow pushing in the latch. I removed the door knobs, opened the latch and THE DOOR! Ahhhh... I can work on the workbench in the basement.

I assembled what I could with what I had. The hacksaw was a disaster. The blade twisted so it was impossible to make a straight cut.

I hadda make one more trip to Ace for different fittings. The helpful hardware man even cut my leftover pipe straight so I could use it as a nipple.

Back at home I put design #2 together. Working carefully and maintaining a grip due my fear I'd drop a tool or my glasses down the sump, I dropped in the pump, plugged it in.... and heard the water surging out to the back yard.

The sump was drained in about 15 minutes. The auto shutoff works. The outside outlet works. I know where my drain tiles come in because I watched the water drain into the sump endlessly as the pump dealt with it.

The total cost, once I return the hoses I didn't need, will be less than $50. BTW, I spotted that new sump at Ace. It was $140!

The previous handyman or plumber had put insulation and a heating tape on the drain hose. The Ace guy told me the heating tape only for metal pipe. I gotta believe it's easy for the hose or pipes to freeze outside. I plugged in the heater. I got some pipe insulation which I'll install when the weather gets warmer to allow me to work. I might have to check with a pro for a solution for that.

I replaced the door lock with the twin of the front door. The latch binds slightly no matter how I tried to adjust it but it works pretty well.

Life is good. I have a feeling of accomplishment, although I can barely walk. :goofy:

Oh. I fired up the downstairs furnace. No gurgling.

Mom says she'll come out another weekend. :(

I owe the new neighbor more than just an airplane ride.

There are two home shows in town this weekend. I wonder if either is worth me dragging my sore bod to.
 
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There are two home shows in town this weekend. I wonder if either is worth me dragging my sore bod to.

As a home owner, it's mandatory that you go to one, once, just to know to stay away in the future. You'll never know what things you never knew you needed until you go. :hairraise:

Sorta like going to Sporty's.
 
I just had the brain shower that to avoid a frozen hose I can put a heater in the outdoor sump box and insulate the heck out of it.

I was planning on getting a Basement Watchdog but the batteries can't live outside. Maybe they could if it was in a heated enclosure.

I wonder how much electric this will use.

I found two disc ceramic heaters through Amazon for $7.99! I bought three. I can always toss one in the plane cabin or in a car.

Now if I can find a cheap "power up at 40 degrees" switch. I wonder if I just have the heater turn on when the pump operates below 50 degrees....
 
Mike, I wouldn't discount the heater tape if you wrap the turns fairly close together... and if the pipe drains downward so the water drains out.
 
Mike, I wouldn't discount the heater tape if you wrap the turns fairly close together... and if the pipe drains downward so the water drains out.

The water has to go uphill from the check valve about 3-4 feet before it goes out/down into back yard. In that run the hose now dips below the check valve, because he sump pipe is closer than it was, which means it'll hold water. :hairraise:

I may be able to shorten the hose but water will still be always there.

The heat tape starts where the hose begins to exit box, about 2-3 feet from the check valve and goes into a large 5" or so PVC pipe shielding the hose as it goes up.
 
The previous handyman or plumber had put insulation and a heating tape on the drain hose. The Ace guy told me the heating tape only for metal pipe.

Store people keep telling everyone the same thing about heat tape wire but it's total hogwash. IMNSHO they don't know what they're talking about.

I have heat tape (the orange/black stuff with the preset thermostat straight from the home depot shelves) on my water supply hose (garden hose) and on the bottom of my fiberglass holding tanks and the PVC piping/dump valves. Heat tape is secured physically to the hose/tanks/pvc/valves that contains water then insulation is wrapped around the whole thing. It runs 24/7 in sub zero to 70F+ weather and I, and about 30 of my neighbors, have had exactly zero problems doing exactly that for 4 months straight. Some have been doing it for years with no problems.

I gotta believe it's easy for the hose or pipes to freeze outside. I plugged in the heater. I got some pipe insulation which I'll install when the weather gets warmer to allow me to work.

Yep they'll freeze the minute it gets below freezing outside anywhere that there is standing or slow moving water in the line. Insulation around a pipe without heat means standing water in the pipe will still freeze solid at night/sub 32F then can't thaw out as quick during the day when the sun comes out. Matter of fact, a neighbor had problems every day with a frozen drain hose (no heat tape) that would not unfreeze until she took the insulation off the hose and let the solar heat do it's thing during the day. Insulation made the situation worse.

I might have to check with a pro for a solution for that.

I'm not a pro anything. Just a realistic RV full timer. I constantly depend on heat tape to keep my water hoses/PVC and tanks/valves unfrozen. The score so far: Zero problems regardless of OAT.
 
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Ah the joys of home ownership. I keep a spare sump pump, a spare flapper valve, and spare power (Coleman 5000W to throwover hardwired three phase) handy.

sigh.

You've learned Rule 1 of homeowning: Never embark on a project when the hardware/home store may close during the project.
 
Now if I can find a cheap "power up at 40 degrees" switch. I wonder if I just have the heater turn on when the pump operates below 50 degrees....

Google 'Thermocube'. Plug one in to a grounded outlet, plug your heater into the outlets on the gizmo.

-Skip
 
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Google 'Thermocube'. Plug one in to a grounded outlet, plug your heater into the outlets on the gizmo.

-Skip

I've been Googling already. Bob Reiff says he stopped selling the Theromocube, which all of kinds of application sellers - greenhouse, dog houses, boat, - are selling, because of quality problems.
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Thermostat.htm

Ace had a 120v 20A furnace thermostat. I'm perfectly cable of hard wiring it and mounting it.

Funny thing is I had the design all engineered in my head. When I went out this morning to admire my work again I noticed that the wood shelf I thought was in the box is just the concrete floor and the wood box only has 3 sides and the top. The rest is masonry. I still can insulate it but I'd have to put wood furring strips in on the back wall and possibly, part of the floor.
 
Store people keep telling everyone the same thing about heat tape wire but it's total hogwash. IMNSHO they don't know what they're talking about.

I have heat tape (the orange/black stuff with the preset thermostat straight from the home depot shelves) on my water supply hose (garden hose) and on the bottom of my fiberglass holding tanks and the PVC piping/dump valves. Heat tape is secured physically to the hose/tanks/pvc/valves that contains water then insulation is wrapped around the whole thing. It runs 24/7 in sub zero to 70F+ weather and I, and about 30 of my neighbors, have had exactly zero problems doing exactly that for 4 months straight. Some have been doing it for years with no problems.



Yep they'll freeze the minute it gets below freezing outside anywhere that there is standing or slow moving water in the line. Insulation around a pipe without heat means standing water in the pipe will still freeze solid at night/sub 32F then can't thaw out as quick during the day when the sun comes out. Matter of fact, a neighbor had problems every day with a frozen drain hose (no heat tape) that would not unfreeze until she took the insulation off the hose and let the solar heat do it's thing during the day. Insulation made the situation worse.



I'm not a pro anything. Just a realistic RV full timer. I constantly depend on heat tape to keep my water hoses/PVC and tanks/valves unfrozen. The score so far: Zero problems regardless of OAT.

Thanks Frank!

The orange heat tape thing is the one that's there. I'll yank off the insulation that's not over the tape. The part I'm worried about won't get any solar heating because they're in a dark wooden box.

The drain hose run does emerge from the box inside that 4-6 inch PVC pipe. Maybe I should spray paint that flat black to get solar heat!
 
As a home owner, it's mandatory that you go to one, once, just to know to stay away in the future. You'll never know what things you never knew you needed until you go. :hairraise:

Sorta like going to Sporty's.

One down. One to go.

I never thought I'd think I'd want a hot tub, but there's one made of foam that's so light you can pick it up, you can roll it out and roll it inside and I had to fight the temptation to jump in to one to ease my sore bones. :rolleyes:

I picked up the brochure from the garage organization system guy and I don't even have a garage yet.

Oh, yeah. Granite countertops. I'll be buying countertops.

Somebody stop me....
 
The part I'm worried about won't get any solar heating because they're in a dark wooden box.

Dark wooden box. That sounds a lot like my holding tanks that are underneath wrapped in insulation. Can you run the heat tape along the drain hose into the box without submerging it in the event of a flood? Heat tape puts out a surprising amount of heat when confined in a smallish enclosed area. I shoved a thermometer up next to my tanks one day and it showed +55F against the side of the tank with an OAT of -5F. I figured that was good enough for at least 25 below without modifications.

As a working example: The picture is the tape against my holding tanks before the insulation was added. The only change was running a piece of the tape wire across the gate valves as a precaution to keep them from freezing shut. After that I basically built a rectangular box around everything with 1" foam insulation then added a layer of moderately compressed R13 insulation over it. Note that there is no heat tape on the PVC pipes even on the gated constant liquid side of the pipes. It doesn't need it since the tape keeps the water in the tank and the pipe area warm enough to not have problems. The PVC pipes in my setup sounds a bit like your situation.

The drain hose run does emerge from the box inside that 4-6 inch PVC pipe. Maybe I should spray paint that flat black to get solar heat!

Free heat is good if you can get it. If nothing else, you end up with a black PVC pipe.
 

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