Survival Kits!

petrolero

petrolero

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petrolero
The broken prop/Death Valley thread got me thinking about survival and rescue over unforgiving terrain such as mountains, deserts, forests, oceans, etc.

What's in your kit?
Any cool tips/tricks?
Over water gear, anyone?
Anyone have to meet Alaska's requirements? 7 days supplies for each pax!?
Anyone wear a survival vest with essentials?
__________________________________
My story/stuff:

I flew/worked with Civil Air Patrol (CO-162) as ES and Comm officer and we discussed mountain flying/SAR and survival a lot. They had survival kits in all their aircraft and I was impressed by how much they could fit into a 20lb pack for very little money.

I am owner/pilot so I went with backpacker gear. You can get a lot of great gear that is still very light. It is more expensive, but is still the cheapest thing in my airplane. :nonod: My target was 20 lbs.

In survival, cold kills first and the mountains (and deserts) are cold even in the summer. For warmth:


  • Four thick wool/fleece hats
  • Four pairs of mittens
  • Mylar space blankets x4
  • Bivvy Sacks (the super small roll-up kind from REI) x4
  • Winter coats and clothing worn by occupants when flying over the mountains in winter, spring and fall.
  • Tarp with Orange on one side & mylar (or something) on the other. (any CAP guys remember Paulin Signals? Always thought those were silly)
  • 3-person tent with rainfly. You can get very small, light tents but few of the 4-season variety would be light enough. Also, 4-person tents are heavier and my whole family of 4 easily fits inside this one.
So I have many ways of starting a fire quickly. There are other ways but speed matters.

  • Wadded up paper
  • Matches in waterproof case
  • Zippo
  • Magnesium/flint/steel thing
  • Wood shavings
  • Vaseline/cotton balls
  • Large folding saw
  • Backpacker micro cooking stove and MSR gas.
  • All of these fit inside a 1-qt titanium cook pot
Yes, I do carry MSR gas canisters and a Zippo and matches, all of which are flammable. CAP forbade those (and unnecessarily IMHO). The airplane is a flying 88-gallon gas can so I don't think 8 ounces of MSR gas is the thing that is going to do me in. :thumbsup:

Other stuff in the kit:


  • LED Mag light (I have two LED headlamps in my flight bag)
  • SAM splint
  • Wilderness first aid kit (includes duct tape!)
  • First Aid/Survival quick reference book
  • Para cord
  • Leatherman tool (I carry a good pocket knife too)
  • Water filter (an MSR one that backpackers use)
  • Signal mirror. These things work, believe me.
  • A good orienteering compass with instructions
  • DeLorme Gazetteer
  • freeze dried backpacker food
  • A couple MREs that someone gave me (these are actually pretty heavy)
  • Whistle
All of that is stored in a 60L dry bag (takes up less than half) and weighs exactly 22 lbs for a 4-pax C182. It is always back there and always in my W&B calcs.

Outside the kit:


  • Handheld radio (Sporty's)
  • SPOT Messenger
  • Ship's 406 MHz ELT
  • Cell Phones and iPads and backup batteries galore
So that's what I can remember from my kit.
 
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I'd honestly consider a rifle/shotgun combo that can be broken down. Something like a 22lr or 22wmr over a .410 or 20 gauge shotgun barrel.
 
petrolero said:
The broken prop/Death Valley thread got me thinking about survival and rescue over unforgiving terrain such as mountains, deserts, forests, oceans, etc.

What's in your kit?
Any cool tips/tricks?
Over water gear, anyone?
Anyone have to meet Alaska's requirements? 7 days supplies for each pax!?
Anyone wear a survival vest with essentials?
__________________________________
My story/stuff:

I flew/worked with Civil Air Patrol (CO-162) as ES and Comm officer and we discussed mountain flying/SAR and survival a lot. They had survival kits in all their aircraft and I was impressed by how much they could fit into a 20lb pack for very little money.

I am owner/pilot so I went with backpacker gear. You can get a lot of great gear that is still very light. It is more expensive, but is still the cheapest thing in my airplane. :nonod: My target was 20 lbs.

In survival, cold kills first and the mountains (and deserts) are cold even in the summer. For warmth:


  • Four thick wool/fleece hats
  • Four pairs of mittens
  • Mylar space blankets x4
  • Bivvy Sacks (the super small roll-up kind from REI) x4
  • Winter coats and clothing worn by occupants when flying over the mountains in winter, spring and fall.
  • Tarp with Orange on one side & mylar (or something) on the other. (any CAP guys remember Paulin Signals? Always thought those were silly)
  • 3-person tent with rainfly. You can get very small, light tents but few of the 4-season variety would be light enough. Also, 4-person tents are heavier and my whole family of 4 easily fits inside this one.
So I have many ways of starting a fire quickly. There are other ways but speed matters.

  • Wadded up paper
  • Matches in waterproof case
  • Zippo
  • Magnesium/flint/steel thing
  • Wood shavings
  • Vaseline/cotton balls
  • Large folding saw
  • Backpacker micro cooking stove and MSR gas.
  • All of these fit inside a 1-qt titanium cook pot
Yes, I do carry MSR gas canisters and a Zippo and matches, all of which are flammable. CAP forbade those (and unnecessarily IMHO). The airplane is a flying 88-gallon gas can so I don't think 8 ounces of MSR gas is the thing that is going to do me in. :thumbsup:

Other stuff in the kit:


  • LED Mag light (I have two LED headlamps in my flight bag)
  • SAM splint
  • Wilderness first aid kit (includes duct tape!)
  • First Aid/Survival quick reference book
  • Para cord
  • Leatherman tool (I carry a good pocket knife too)
  • Water filter (an MSR one that backpackers use)
  • Signal mirror. These things work, believe me.
  • A good orienteering compass with instructions
  • DeLorme Gazetteer
  • freeze dried backpacker food
  • A couple MREs that someone gave me (these are actually pretty heavy)
All of that is stored in a 60L dry bag (takes up less than half) and weighs exactly 22 lbs for a 4-pax C182. It is always back there and always in my W&B calcs.

Outside the kit:


  • Handheld radio (Sporty's)
  • SPOT Messenger
  • Ship's 406 MHz ELT
  • Cell Phones and iPads and backup batteries galore
So that's what I can remember from my kit.
Click to expand...


Impressive. Can you give me the brand and model of that lightweight tent?
 
I don't carry survival gear when I'm driving...nor do I carry it when I'm flying.

As I said in the broken prop thread...

Put me squarely in the camp of "if it's not worn on your person (i.e. a survival vest) then it's nothing more than camping gear."
 
If CAP forbids matches and Zippos, I can name at least 10 senior CAP officers in CAWG who are breaking the rules.

And the matches are in the required aircraft survival kit. Even in RMR.
 
MAKG1 said:
If CAP forbids matches and Zippos, I can name at least 10 senior CAP officers in CAWG who are breaking the rules.

And the matches are in the required aircraft survival kit. Even in RMR.
Click to expand...

Don't know that they forbid matches but I do recall them forbidding butane lighters and such. They also forbid road flares and MSR propane canisters and so forth.
 
timwinters said:
I don't carry survival gear when I'm driving...nor do I carry it when I'm flying.

As I said in the broken prop thread...

Put me squarely in the camp of "if it's not worn on your person (i.e. a survival vest) then it's nothing more than camping gear."
Click to expand...

Do you wear it on your person?

Do you regularly drive through uninhabited and roadless areas? Aircraft regularly fly over such areas.

Or are you more of the mind that you'll carry other electronics to make sure you get found quicker? Satellite messengers/phones perhaps?

Although he was found quickly, the pilot in the broken prop thread might have benefited from some of that camping gear, as could many of the pilots CAP has located.
 
nddons said:
Impressive. Can you give me the brand and model of that lightweight tent?
Click to expand...

If I go out there tonight I will take a look. It is two years old now so the name of it has surely changed but I do believe it was under 5 lbs. REI has lots of tents like this. You can get even lighter tents but they usually don't have rain full flies or are not free standing (like minimalist ones the require hiking poles for supports).

Setting up a tent while injured would be unlikely. Hence the bivvy sacks and tarp. Plus you could yank the fly out of the tent and throw it over you or a tree or a wing or something quick to get out of wind/rain/snow/sun.
 
petrolero said:
Do you regularly drive through uninhabited and roadless areas? Aircraft regularly fly over such areas..
Click to expand...

No, but I guarantee you that there are a LOT of places in Northern Arkansas and Southern Missouri where, if you ran off the road, then it'd be a long way down and you wouldn't be found for weeks...if ever...and you likely wouldn't be able to hike back up to the road, if you could even walk after the fall.

I'd have a better chance of being found in my plane because, if I'm actually going somewhere, I'm always on FF or IFR. In a car, no one would have a clue as to where to start looking.

I just think survival stuff, unless you're flying in the Rockies or other truly mountainous areas (which you are), is overkill, car or plane.

But this is just another "it depends" and "to each his own" topic just like so many other things in aviation...and life in general.
 
timwinters said:
Put me squarely in the camp of "if it's not worn on your person (i.e. a survival vest) then it's nothing more than camping gear."
Click to expand...

Why? Unless you plan on bailing out with a parachute. Or are flying over water. If you crash-land (on land) you will come to rest with the airplane. Even if the plane crunches up and you can't get the cargo doors open, planes are thin skinned aluminum and you should be able to get your stuff out with a big rock and a little determination.

I'll give you this, probably the best survival kit is a $250 406mhz PLB carried on your person.
 
I recently did a "What they don't tell you" for a CAP ES meeting, and brought what I carry on every CAP flight and every flight in my cherokee

1. small backpack
2. cell phone
3. personal PLB
4. small first aid kit with any meds I might need overnight
5. D cell strobe, one of those marine signaling gadgets
6. clipbaord, maps, etc for MS/MO position activities
7. clothes appropriate for weather

Why? As I pointed out, I don't trust anyone! I also recommended that we update the emergency procedures to include the phrase "first one out, grab the SPOT and turn it to SOS mode immediately"

I don't trust anyone to be able to get that 40 pound emergency bag out of the back of a 182 by themselves. Yes, out here in Colorado that bag is 40 not 30 pounds.

I'm not going to worry about water, food, etc. People know where we are, where we're going, and they're already in emergency mode.
 
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Quick clot sponge
Bulky trauma dressing
Bandage wrap
Space blankets
Couple small bottles of water and a chitty MRE
Tourniquet (small "tactical" type)
Pocket BVM with NPA and OPA
ASA
Couple synergies, epi and benadryl
Ace wrap
stethoscope and sphygmometer
Trauma sheers
Windmill lighter
W-EMT field guide
Water purification tabs
That's all in a fast pack

I also am getting a Remington 870 Marnine Magnum 12G with a speed feed stock and surefire foregrip. 12G magnum slugs and 00 loaded, bird shot on one side of the speed feed stock, Orinon flares on the other side. Thats kept in a floatable soft shell case in the back of the plane.
 
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murphey said:
I don't trust anyone to be able to get that 40 pound emergency bag out of the back of a 182 by themselves. Yes, out here in Colorado that bag is 40 not 30 pounds.

I'm not going to worry about water, food, etc. People know where we are, where we're going, and they're already in emergency mode.
Click to expand...

We carried a 90 pound survival bag in the planes I flew in Alaska. There is a company that makes up different survival bags. I never put the bag in the nose. We were not required to carry the bag on regular scheduled flights, just charter. I still carried the bag on all flights.

Here in the lower 48, in our EMS planes, we have a 20 pound survival bag. Since we are EMS, we have enough medical supplies.

For my personal gear, I carry a pistol and a fire starting kit. Everyone on board has a cell phone, we have a SAT phone, plus we are tracked by ATC, flight plan with company with ETAs, and we have a GPS tracker so dispatch can watch our position, altitude and ground speed at all times.

In my truck I carry a case of bottled water and enough tools to make minor repairs on the road. And toilette paper.

And clean underwear at all times....:yes:
 
Zeldman said:
We carried a 90 pound survival bag in the planes I flew in Alaska. There is a company that makes up different survival bags. I never put the bag in the nose. We were not required to carry the bag on regular scheduled flights, just charter. I still carried the bag on all flights.

Here in the lower 48, in our EMS planes, we have a 20 pound survival bag. Since we are EMS, we have enough medical supplies.

For my personal gear, I carry a pistol and a fire starting kit. Everyone on board has a cell phone, we have a SAT phone, plus we are tracked by ATC, flight plan with company with ETAs, and we have a GPS tracker so dispatch can watch our position, altitude and ground speed at all times.

In my truck I carry a case of bottled water and enough tools to make minor repairs on the road. And toilette paper.

And clean underwear at all times....:yes:
Click to expand...

For work we have a "survival kit" which is a joke on a EMS plane.

You carry a pistol on a EMS 135??
 
Add a rescue whistle (not a police whistle with a pea) on a lanyard around your neck. Blowing does not strain your vocal cords...yelling does. Mine cost $5 at REI.

I'm also a fan of a PLB.

Bob Gardner
 
James331 said:
For work we have a "survival kit" which is a joke on a EMS plane.

You carry a pistol on a EMS 135??
Click to expand...


Yes, our survival kit is pretty much useless except for bug bites, sunburn and angry bowels. :rofl:

Pistol, yes.
 
Sat phone and a credit card is probably the best bet. I usually carry a spot and am dressed for the weather. And have plenty of nylon and string for hooch building.
 
For those that carry a firearm, for what purpose? Hunting or protection, both. I never plan on being out long enough to need meat. Protection maybe.
 
I know a guy who flys a lot over southern AZ. He packs a Glock for protection, as there are a lot of "transient northbound hikers" down there. Some of them are really bad folks.
 
bobmrg said:
Add a rescue whistle (not a police whistle with a pea) on a lanyard around your neck. Blowing does not strain your vocal cords...yelling does. Mine cost $5 at REI.

I'm also a fan of a PLB.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Good point. I forgot that on the list, but I do have one in the kit. The orange REI one.

ejensen said:
For those that carry a firearm, for what purpose? Hunting or protection, both. I never plan on being out long enough to need meat. Protection maybe.
Click to expand...

The food in my kit is more for pax. I'll just say I'm pretty um... famine resistant. :D

I have thought about firearms and have decided they are way down on the list of things I'd realistically need. As others have said, the idea is to survive one to several nights in sub-freezing temps until WX is good enough for SAR. And get found or find help.

While I agree with the FPL, FF and IFR ideas and use those as much as possible, in the mountains you will find yourself off radar unless you can fly high. MEAs in many places are in the flight levels to high teens. And if you are landing, you'll very likely be off radar during descent. This is where flight plans and position reports come in very handy. Use those RCOs.

Also, i learned in my mountain flying class that ATC has a new beacon triangulation system deployed in the mountains that can help them track aircraft without radar in most flyable valleys. Forget the name but someone here will know it.
 
murphey said:
I recently did a "What they don't tell you" for a CAP ES meeting, and brought what I carry on every CAP flight and every flight in my cherokee

1. small backpack
2. cell phone
3. personal PLB
4. small first aid kit with any meds I might need overnight
5. D cell strobe, one of those marine signaling gadgets
6. clipbaord, maps, etc for MS/MO position activities
7. clothes appropriate for weather

Why? As I pointed out, I don't trust anyone! I also recommended that we update the emergency procedures to include the phrase "first one out, grab the SPOT and turn it to SOS mode immediately"

I don't trust anyone to be able to get that 40 pound emergency bag out of the back of a 182 by themselves. Yes, out here in Colorado that bag is 40 not 30 pounds.

I'm not going to worry about water, food, etc. People know where we are, where we're going, and they're already in emergency mode.
Click to expand...

We used to teach that if it's not on you, you can't depend on having it in a crash situation. Some guys wore vests with some basics in them. Not a bad idea but I don't have a vest.
 
petrolero said:
Good point. I forgot that on the list, but I do have one in the kit. The orange REI one.



The food in my kit is more for pax. I'll just say I'm pretty um... famine resistant. :D

I have thought about firearms and have decided they are way down on the list of things I'd realistically need. As others have said, the idea is to survive one to several nights in sub-freezing temps until WX is good enough for SAR. And get found or find help.

While I agree with the FPL, FF and IFR ideas and use those as much as possible, in the mountains you will find yourself off radar unless you can fly high. MEAs in many places are in the flight levels to high teens. And if you are landing, you'll very likely be off radar during descent. This is where flight plans and position reports come in very handy. Use those RCOs.

Also, i learned in my mountain flying class that ATC has a new beacon triangulation system deployed in the mountains that can help them track aircraft without radar in most flyable valleys. Forget the name but someone here will know it.
Click to expand...
WAAM. Wide Area Multilateral.

Colorado Pilots volunteered time and avgas a few years ago flying circles near Steamboat for calibration. Next one is going in Telluride or Durango, can't remember which.
 
1 .45 automatic.
2 boxes of ammunition.
4 days' concentrated emergency rations.
1 drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills.
1 miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible.
100 dollars in rubles.
100 dollars in gold.
9 packs of chewing gum.
1 issue of prophylactics.
3 lipsticks.
3 pairs of nylon stockings.
 
flyingron said:
1 .45 automatic.
2 boxes of ammunition.
4 days' concentrated emergency rations.
1 drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills.
1 miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible.
100 dollars in rubles.
100 dollars in gold.
9 packs of chewing gum.
1 issue of prophylactics.
3 lipsticks.
3 pairs of nylon stockings.
Click to expand...

"Sounds like a pretty good weekend in Vegas to me" (Dr. Strangelove, cir 1963)
 
flyingron said:
1 .45 automatic.
2 boxes of ammunition.
4 days' concentrated emergency rations.
1 drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills.
1 miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible.
100 dollars in rubles.
100 dollars in gold.
9 packs of chewing gum.
1 issue of prophylactics.
3 lipsticks.
3 pairs of nylon stockings.
Click to expand...

Where does an average Joe get Morphine without talking to the shady Latvian Guy on the corner?
 
ejensen said:
For those that carry a firearm, for what purpose? Hunting or protection, both. I never plan on being out long enough to need meat. Protection maybe.
Click to expand...


I fly air ambulance. There are times we go to rural landing strips, not fenced in airports. I have sat on a strip and never saw another person or even a car drive by. Very desolate areas, day or night. And like someone said, "transient northbound hikers" are around. Not all of them are here for honest work. I once used a cheap night vision device and watched a line of people walk across the airstrip. I turned on the runway lights using a hand held radio and they sure scattered quickly.

I also live in a very rural area. I found mountain lion tracks in the snow next to my house once.

So to answer your question, I carry for protection. I just hope I am never put in a position to need it.
 
The way the world is going, I think I'm more likely to need a survival kit at home than in the airplane.
 
flyingron said:
1 .45 automatic.
2 boxes of ammunition.
4 days' concentrated emergency rations.
1 drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills.
1 miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible.
100 dollars in rubles.
100 dollars in gold.
9 packs of chewing gum.
1 issue of prophylactics.
3 lipsticks.
3 pairs of nylon stockings.
Click to expand...

Pretty slim pickin's if you ask me.
 
Zeldman said:
I fly air ambulance. There are times we go to rural landing strips, not fenced in airports. I have sat on a strip and never saw another person or even a car drive by. Very desolate areas, day or night. And like someone said, "transient northbound hikers" are around. Not all of them are here for honest work. I once used a cheap night vision device and watched a line of people walk across the airstrip. I turned on the runway lights using a hand held radio and they sure scattered quickly.

I also live in a very rural area. I found mountain lion tracks in the snow next to my house once.

So to answer your question, I carry for protection. I just hope I am never put in a position to need it.
Click to expand...

We've been to Chinle, nice airstrip with nothing, no fence, anything. Several air ambulance just sitting out in the open. Didn't feel great about leaving the planes but no problem.
 
We carry much of what is mentioned here. In our crash bag we also carry:

- Canteen of water
- Smoke grenade
- Large pop up flare
- Tourniquet
- Suture kit

Pilot wears a vest with smaller but nesceary items...:yes:
 
It's really simple - an emergency beacon (other than the aircraft ELT) appropriate clothing to spend the night outdoors, wound management gear to stop any bleeding. That's it, anything else is nice but space and weight may not allow it.
 
ejensen said:
We've been to Chinle, nice airstrip with nothing, no fence, anything. Several air ambulance just sitting out in the open. Didn't feel great about leaving the planes but no problem.
Click to expand...

Chinle (Chin LEE) is not a bad strip. The only problem there besides animals on the strip is when the sun goes down it is DARK. A generator is operated for the runway lights and starts by clicking the mic. Sometimes it starts up, sometimes it doesn't. At least it is too far from town for the normal inebriated indigenous people to walk.

I heard a story that years ago one of the air ambulance pilots reported a physical assault and attempted highjacking. The story goes that a person forced the pilot to board the aircraft and demanded to be flown out. The pilot did a high speed taxi down the runway and ran off the end damaging the nose gear. The pilot then tried to escape but was thrown out the door by the person, causing facial bruising.

Nothing was ever proved except the plane was off the runway and damaged.

Don't try to make a 180 turn on the runway when the ground is wet. The edge of the pavement will break off and the planes wheel will get stuck in the mud. Don't ask me how I know this twice....:dunno::redface:
 
Zeldman said:
Chinle (Chin LEE) is not a bad strip. The only problem there besides animals on the strip is when the sun goes down it is DARK. A generator is operated for the runway lights and starts by clicking the mic. Sometimes it starts up, sometimes it doesn't. At least it is too far from town for the normal inebriated indigenous people to walk.

I heard a story that years ago one of the air ambulance pilots reported a physical assault and attempted highjacking. The story goes that a person forced the pilot to board the aircraft and demanded to be flown out. The pilot did a high speed taxi down the runway and ran off the end damaging the nose gear. The pilot then tried to escape but was thrown out the door by the person, causing facial bruising.

Nothing was ever proved except the plane was off the runway and damaged.

Don't try to make a 180 turn on the runway when the ground is wet. The edge of the pavement will break off and the planes wheel will get stuck in the mud. Don't ask me how I know this twice....:dunno::redface:
Click to expand...

The strip is fine. Just that there is no access control or fence at all. Plane have been broken into, one was just missing the seats.

And I won't talk about why I was cleaning mud out of the landing gear so they would close.
 
nddons said:
... Can you give me the brand and model of that lightweight tent?
Click to expand...
My kit includes an 8x8' sheet of Tyvek house wrap. Cheap, tough, and multipurpose. I also have paracord and a couple of options for cutting light wood, so a tent can be easily improvised.

I fly with my cell phone deliberately left on so if someone has to come looking for me, there will hopefully be cell tower data to help with flight history and locations. Yes, I know it is against the rules.
 
While I suppose it's possible, I haven't heard of someone trying cell phone forensics to locate a downed plane. Radar forensics are routine.

It won't do you any good if no one thinks to look. Which is likely because it's against the rules to have it on.

There are still a lot of places where you can't get a signal as well.
 
MAKG1 said:
While I suppose it's possible, I haven't heard of someone trying cell phone forensics to locate a downed plane.
Click to expand...

It's pretty routine. For example: http://www.capvolunteernow.com/toda...o_6_found_alive_in_nev&show=news&newsID=17800 and http://www.al.com/news/montgomery/index.ssf/2014/09/search_continues_for_airplane.html

MAKG1 said:
It won't do you any good if no one thinks to look. Which is likely because it's against the rules to have it on.
Click to expand...
Again, it's routine to check.

MAKG1 said:
There are still a lot of places where you can't get a signal as well.
Click to expand...
The tower data tells you where and when the cell phone checked in. One thing this can be useful for is to correlate the event with a nearby 1200 radar track, identifying it as the missing airplane. Another is to know where on the route the airplane is probably not --- the last tower hit can eliminate a large search area on the route prior to the hit.
 
MAKG1 said:
While I suppose it's possible, I haven't heard of someone trying cell phone forensics to locate a downed plane. Radar forensics are routine.
Click to expand...
Inland SAR planning course teaches this as a standard initial practice, as does the airplane section of lost person behavior. The funny thing is, inland SAR teaches that CAP is the go to agency that USAF RCC uses for cell phone forensics processing for missing aircraft. SAR planners are supposed to ask for this information during the reflex response :)
 
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