Suitable Aircraft for PPC ride.

Greg Bockelman

Greg Bockelman

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Greg Bockelman
Ok, I am sure it has been discussed, but I don't even know what key words to use for a search.

Is an aircraft whose only form of onboard navigation is a GPS suitable for the Private Pilot Checkride?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Ok, I am sure it has been discussed, but I don't even know what key words to use for a search.

Is an aircraft whose only form of onboard navigation is a GPS suitable for the Private Pilot Checkride?
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If it's capable of navigating a LPV I believe the answer is yes, otherwise no. I'm sure I read that an LPV approach qualifies for the "precision" approach requred for an IR checkride even though it's technically not a precision approach.

Edit: this answer mistakenly assumed the question was about an Instrument checkride.
 
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Yes. Just be prepared to "tune" a VOR with the GPS and track a radial in or outbound.

The examiner will want to know you can follow VOR style ATC guidance with the GPS.

Pilot Practical Test Standards - Navigation - B Task, Navigation and RADAR services.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to navigation systems
and radar services.
2. Demonstrates the ability to use an airborne electronic navigation
system.
3. Locates the airplane's position using the navigation system.
4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial or bearing, as
appropriate.
5. Recognizes and describes the indication of station passage, if
appropriate.
6. Recognizes signal loss and takes appropriate action.
7. Uses proper communication procedures when utilizing radar
services.
8. Maintains the appropriate altitude, ±200 feet (60 meters) and
headings ±15°.
 
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gismo said:
If it's capable of navigating a LPV I believe the answer is yes, otherwise no. I'm sure I read that an LPV approach qualifies for the "precision" approach requred for an IR checkride even though it's technically not a precision approach.
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Private, not instrument.

And let me look at the PTS and get back to you on the original question. I don't BELIEVE there are any tasks that can't be met with a GPS only, but I'll need to double-check.

EDIT: AREA VI, Task B. You can do all of this with GPS. Using the OBS mode or even the bearing mode would work.
 
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TMetzinger said:
EDIT: AREA VI, Task B. You can do all of this with GPS. Using the OBS mode or even the bearing mode would work.
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Ok, now all I have to do is figure out if this particular GPS is capable of that.

Anybody know anything about the Dynon Skyview system?
 
I passed my pp checkride with a $500 GPS and no VOR. The GPS is interfaced to my Dynon D100 EFIS. I think the Skyview can do anything the D100 can.
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
Is an aircraft whose only form of onboard navigation is a GPS suitable for the Private Pilot Checkride?
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Yes. Ditto an ADF. You just have to have some electronic nav system which allows you to:
3. Locates the airplane's position using the navigation system.
4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial or bearing, as
appropriate.
5. Recognizes and describes the indication of station passage, if
appropriate.​
6. Recognizes signal loss and takes appropriate action.
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I don't know of a GPS which won't let you do that.

The big question is whether you can do it with a handheld rather than an installed system. It's not clear in the FAR's or PTS, and FAA Order 8900.1 is unclear on this point, so if you're thinking of doing that, I would suggest checking with the examiner first.
 
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gismo said:
If it's capable of navigating a LPV I believe the answer is yes, otherwise no. I'm sure I read that an LPV approach qualifies for the "precision" approach requred for an IR checkride even though it's technically not a precision approach.
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You're thinking IR, not PP.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes. Ditto an ADF. You just have to have some electronic nav system which allows you to:
I don't know of a GPS which won't let you do that.

The big question is whether you can do it with a handheld rather than an installed system. It's not clear in the FAR's or PTS, and FAA Order 8900.1 is unclear on this point, so if you're thinking of doing that, I would suggest checking with the examiner first.
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I believe the skycatcher (with the Garmin portable installed in a dock) has been used for private rides in our area.
 
My understanding is that most DPE's are allowed to do a checkride IF the GPS is panel-mounted. A handheld will not suffice... unless you find a way to make it a panel item.

Ryan
 
There's the whole issue of experimental/light sport/standard cert. airworthiness. My examiner had no problem at all with my setup, which was a Lowrance Airmap 1000 mounted in the panel and interfaced to the Dynon EFIS in my light sport plane. Since he referred to my plane as "experimental", I don't think he would have any problem with the setup in an experimental.

A standard airworthiness certificate aircraft might be a whole nuther issue.
 
TMetzinger said:
I believe the skycatcher (with the Garmin portable installed in a dock) has been used for private rides in our area.
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The key there is that the dock is legally installed. If you read 8900.1, there is some confusing language about the requirement for legal installation of such devices. If you will have a handheld velcro'd or clamped to the airplane for that purpose, ask the examiner's before you show up, because if you just show up on the day of the test, you may be sent home (even if the FSDO later says it was OK).
 
Jaybird180 said:
I thought those were light sport only
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They are indeed certified as LSA's, but there's no reason they can't be used for training and practical tests for PP or IR if suitably equipped (mainly, enough instruments for the hood work, a comm radio, and some sort of nav radio, typically either VOR or GPS). In fact, more and more schools are using appropriate LSA's for PP and even IR training due to their low operating costs and attractive appearance. And yes, they can legally be flown IFR for IR training and practical tests (but only in VMC) even though they are not approved for IFR operation under their type certificate. Per FAA Order 8900.1, Section 5-439:
A. IFR Training in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC). Instrument flight training may be conducted during VMC in any aircraft that meets the equipment requirements of part 91, §§ 91.109, 91.205, and, for an airplane operated in controlled airspace under the IFR system, §§ 91.411 and 91.413. An aircraft may be operated on an IFR flight plan under IFR in VMC, provided the PIC is properly certificated to operate the aircraft under IFR. However, if the aircraft is not approved for IFR operations under its type certificate, or if the appropriate instruments and equipment are not installed or are not operative, operations in Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) are prohibited. The PIC of such an aircraft must cancel the IFR flight plan in use and avoid flight into IMC.
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There's even one or two LSAs equipped and certified for IFR. Of course one needs to be at least a private pilot with an instrument rating and a current medical
 
TMetzinger said:
There's even one or two LSAs equipped and certified for IFR.
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One or two is about right. Getting LSA's approved for IFR was put on hold over the problem of the lack of "industry standards." IIRC, there's only one make/model that is, and there won't be any more until the industry develops those standards.
 
RyanShort1 said:
My understanding is that most DPE's are allowed to do a checkride IF the GPS is panel-mounted. A handheld will not suffice... unless you find a way to make it a panel item.

Ryan
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