Suggestions for getting Citation Mustang Type Rating

[George Dipp]

I have been flying Columbias (350 and 400) for the last couple years and am interested in getting my type rating in a Citation Mustang so that I can eventually buy one for personal use.

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions where to go to get my type rating and some training in the Mustang?

Also do you have any informations as to the additional complication required to fly a Mustang vs my Columbia 400. I know they have similar Panels (G1000) but how much harder is the mustang to fly? Thanks in advance for any info. :wink2:

 

[Everskyward]

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions where to go to get my type rating and some training in the Mustang?

I know they do Mustang type ratings at the Cessna FlightSafety in Wichita. I would expect it to be pretty costly.

 

[rainsux]

I've did a 1-hour ground intro and 1-hour sim intro at FS-ICT.

I don't think "flying" will be a problem. If you know the G1000
cold, it won't be a problem.

But, it is a "systems" airplane. You're gonna need to:

Learn busses, and such.
Learn the automation ... and the failure modes and reversions.
Learn high-altitude ops
Learn turbine operations
Learn to fly as a crew
You'll also be learning some new rules & regs
Do you have your MEL yet? If not; that'll be new.

For the TR, you will be expected to perform to ATP standards. If you
don't already have your CPL or ATP, just go take the writtens and do
it all at once.

I imagine that the insurance companies are gonna insist that you have
another TR'd, highly experienced pilot along for your first 50-100 hours.

I know of another private owner who wanted to upgrade from a Bo to a
CJ2. IIRC, the insurance carriers suggested that he call'm back after he
accumulated 500-1000 hours in a turboprop. He bought a Conquest I
as his step-up airplane and bought a highly experience pilot for his first
50 hours.

Even after doing the single-pilot TR in the CJ2, the insurance rates for
single-pilot are so much higher, that he hires TR'd pilots to fill the right
seat. I am guessing that the insurance companies will treat the Mustang
similarly.

 

[CnBeta]

If you're serious about the ownership, talk to Cessna. You may be able to receive a discount on your training if you purchase a new Mustang.

 

[taters]

Flight safety all the way. Az Type ratings also popular

 

[kgruber]

Flightsafety for sure.

But if you want to do it on the cheap, there are places in California where you can get typed in a Citation in one day.

 

[rainsux]

> there are places in California where you can get typed in a Citation in one day.

An initial TR? Unrestricted? In one [1] day? Wow. In the plane or a sim?

 

[Wingsofglass]

Slight thread drift here but this insurance topic always comes up when someone talks about a type rating. And the context always seems to be "the FAA is really the minimum standard but the true reality of what it takes to fly this plane is the insurance company."

Now if I ran an insurance company, I would instruct my underwriters to figure out what the absolute minimum requirement would be so that premiums are offset by payouts. The money in this business is made on the float. I would want the absolute minimum so that Eddy the Entrepreneur doesn't go to one of my competitors because they have easier requirements.

But as a pilot what I really want to know is "what training do I need so I will be safe in this plane?" The fact that the insurance company wants some level of training to keep their payout when I have a fatal equal to their premium intake really doesn't help me much.

So with that in mind, I wouldn't ask how to get a type in rating in a Mustang. I would ask what do I need to do so that I can keep me and my family safe when I fly this plane. I would also look at insurance requirements as some sort of absolute minimum standard.

Now I've looked at stepping up to a Mustang myself and have come to the conclusion that if I can spend $2+ million on a plane and about $1,000 an hour to fly it, I can certainly spring for some kick ass training. If I find myself in a position where I just don't have the time for this, then NetJets is the answer.

The people I have asked seem to agree that Flight Safety is the best place to get a Mustang type rating. That would just be the very beginning for me. I would spend for a lot of extra sim time there and I would fly with an expert, type rated pilot for quite some time getting additional training. When I knew in my heart and soul that I was an awesome Mustang pilot with fantastic judgement, I would pm Wingsofglass and offer him some right seat time.

The one day type rating stuff works for the high time pilot with multiple turbine ratings, not for the stepping up pilot.

 

[wabower]

In order to shorten the training time and cost and satisfy the insurance company's requirements for "an approved school" it's possible to do a quick type rating in the plane (as Karl mentioned) and then do a two-day recurrent training session in a 142 sim. Unless the pilot has prior turbine PIC, the type rating will be restricted until IOE is completed no matter how obtained.

A newbie will be required to fly with a "real-pilot" baby-sitter for some period of time, so the danger of breaking something isn't all that great, especially since the Mustang is easier to fly than any light twin ever built.

 

[kgruber]

> there are places in California where you can get typed in a Citation in one day.

An initial TR? Unrestricted? In one [1] day? Wow. In the plane or a sim?

I am sure things are slightly different now, but much the same. I went to a Citation 500 school in Los Angeles, about 20 years ago. It was to be a week long school. But on the first morning four American Airlines pilots showed up. They were upgrading to captain in some American jet.

This was their first jet type rating and at that time the first jet type had to be done in the airplane. It was MUCH cheaper for American to type these guys in the Citation and the get their airliner type in a sim.

So there they were and they needed the rating that day. We spent the morning memorizing the limitations and red check list items and then we all went flying. My ride was last and was about midnight.

"Examiner on staff" is usually a clue. I never did feel bad about the quick type. I could have flown that 500 home that night single pilot.

I spent the next few years as a copilot on a bunch of different jets until somebody insured me as captain in a brand new Lear 31A. That was a good job. Bounced around a little after the owner died and finally retired.

 

[N747JB]

I took the two week course at Quickturn at DFW in 2000, I had about 1700 TT with 1200 multi and 300+ of that multi turbine. It takes two weeks for a reason, it's a ton of material and having an old sim that flew like crap didn't help. I took the CE500 type ride and although I didnt fly all that well I passed. Jets, particularly straight wing Citations are dead simple to fly, once you get familiar with them. I flew my 551 single pilot 700 hours, after my 50 hour babysitting time was up. Nothing like flying your own jet!!

 

[wabower]

They've added a week for anything with glass.

I took the two week course at Quickturn at DFW in 2000, I had about 1700 TT with 1200 multi and 300+ of that multi turbine. It takes two weeks for a reason, it's a ton of material and having an old sim that flew like crap didn't help. I took the CE500 type ride and although I didnt fly all that well I passed. Jets, particularly straight wing Citations are dead simple to fly, once you get familiar with them. I flew my 551 single pilot 700 hours, after my 50 hour babysitting time was up. Nothing like flying your own jet!!