Suggestions for dealing with endless delays

Areeda

Areeda

Pattern Altitude
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Areeda
We put one of our club's 172s in the shop on March 1 to get the engine rebuilt and the plane painted. The original estimate was June 1st and it's been one delay after another. The first delay was a month and then a week or two each time. This has kept us from leasing a short term replacement.

I was up there yesterday and there is still a lot of work to be done. None of the accessories are on the engine, the interior is not in, the control surfaces are not installed. He's estimating another week.

Unfortunately the shop is 300 miles away so going in everyday to check on them is not a good option.

What would you do?

Joe

I also posted this at AOPA, I'm getting desparate.
 
It's going to be much longer than a week. BTDT. Some mechanics just don't know how to estimate time, and they take "quick" repairs in the interim.

Unfortunately, if the plane's apart you are over a barrel. If there's an owner of the FBO over the mechanic, that would be an approach (it was the approach I used). If it's an independent contractor, you've got a problem.

Do you have a contract with the mechanic? That will govern your options if you do. If not, you need to have a real talk with the guy, maybe even asking if he needs more help. If the issue is delivery of necessary parts, do the legwork yourself.
 
Did you read Av Shiloh's thread? yuk.

Get trailer, find 4 people, load it up, move it to the next guy, post the culprit's business name.
 
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Areeda said:
We put one of our club's 172s in the shop on March 1 to get the engine rebuilt and the plane painted. The original estimate was June 1st and it's been one delay after another. The first delay was a month and then a week or two each time. This has kept us from leasing a short term replacement.

I was up there yesterday and there is still a lot of work to be done. None of the accessories are on the engine, the interior is not in, the control surfaces are not installed. He's estimating another week.

Unfortunately the shop is 300 miles away so going in everyday to check on them is not a good option.

What would you do?

Joe

I also posted this at AOPA, I'm getting desparate.
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First thing I'd attempt is an appeal to the shop owner. Explain how the delays are affecting your club's ability to operate. Try for a written commitment for a completion date with financial penalties for non-performance. It is kinda late to be going down this road, but worth a try. If you don't get anywhere with that approach, you're probably gonna have to post someone at the shop every day to push for completion and stay in their face. Or you could pack up the plane and ship/trailer/ferry it somewhere else and start over. That probably means paying the bill at the shop for the work done so far. If you want to dispute the charges, you'll still have to pay and then sue (conciliation court) to get back what you are owed.
 
I want to thank everybody for your suggestions. it has been a big help.

We are writing a "friendly" letter going out today. If we don't have the airplane in a week or two, we will get a laywer to write a more insistent version.

If none of this works, we may take another mechanic to finish the project or put it on a truck and take it somewhere else.

We're getting that desparate.

Joe
 
Areeda said:
If none of this works, we may take another mechanic to finish the project or put it on a truck and take it somewhere else.
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Get legal advice before you do that, as the shop that has the plane may have a mechanic's lien on it for work done to date, and would have the legal right to maintain possession until you pay for that work already done. If you were to haul the plane away without paying, you could be liable for damages and possibly even criminal prosecution for theft, so make sure you know what's legal before you do anything like that.
 
Ron Levy said:
Get legal advice before you do that, as the shop that has the plane may have a mechanic's lien on it for work done to date, and would have the legal right to maintain possession until you pay for that work already done. If you were to haul the plane away without paying, you could be liable for damages and possibly even criminal prosecution for theft, so make sure you know what's legal before you do anything like that.
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Thanks.

This problem is complicated by our relationship with the shop.

I still have hope that nothing like this will be necessay but if something as drastic as this has to be done it will be done with the blessing of the shop owner to get us out of his hair.

Joe
 
In real estate there is a legal instrument known as "lis pendens", literally meaning a suit is pending. Now that concerns title but isn't there something like that appropriate to your situation?

I've recorded lis pendens in the past due to substandard performance from others. The intended result of getting folks to carry out their duty was achieved.

Perhaps an unwavering letter on attorney letterhead is sufficient at this time.
 
Nolo.com said:
"lis pendens": (1) Latin for "a suit pending." The term may refer to any pending lawsuit. (2) A written notice that a lawsuit has been filed concerning real estate, involving either the title to the property or a claimed ownership interest in it. The notice is usually filed in the county land records office. Recording a lis pendens against a piece of property alerts a potential purchaser or lender that the property’s title is in question, which makes the property less attractive to a buyer or lender. After the notice is filed, anyone who nevertheless purchases the land or property described in the notice takes subject to the ultimate decision of the lawsuit.
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I don't see the relevence of this filing to the situation at hand. This would be a concern only for the shop if they failed to keep possession of the airplane without having been paid (generally a bad business practice), and were preparing to sue Joe's group to seize the aircraft for non-payment of the bill. In any event, filing a lien with the FAA Aircraft Registry (preferably before releasing the aircraft to the owner) would be the standard way to proceed when the aircraft is released without payment.

In this case, there's no question of ownership -- just getting the shop to finish the work.
 
Areeda,

This shop wouldn't be located in Texas by chance? I know of one here in South Texas that does interior,paint and engines w / all the same excuses. Next thing you know your at the next annual!I fortunately have left that world of deadbeats.At times we were told to just get the customer in.And get to planes when we could. Some times so over whelmed with other aircraft that the plane just sat in the shop untouched for months. Called "cash flow security". I didn't want to be apart of the scheme having to come up with excuses. I didn't feel ethically and peaceful about this at all. After suggesting schedules to be made up and a procedural way of doing in coming aircraft ,I was balled as a "non conformist"! I got to the point I advised the owners to call and continue vigilance over their project. At least the ones that could do so. I soon began to have the trust of many aircraft owners that at least my part would be completed on time.And I gave follow up emails with pictures on a semi weekly bases, without the shop owners knowledge.Sometimes ,I advised the owners to call the shop foreman or boss that they were on there way out to see the progression of work.Some did and saw first hand and some didn't but it lit some fires to get the job done even though they didn't come out.Put them on the spot so to speak.
Now depending on what you're having done so far you might be able to stop service on other items that haven't been started yet. If you have already committed with a contract than this could be a slight legal issue. But if all this was just a verbal agreement and you planned to get different things done find out how much is done and what you can stop being done. Is it to late to stop the painting? Interior? If engine is really torn dwn than tell them you have a change of plans and just want certain items done. You will be at there mercy so to speak until the work is done. Or choose to just just halt all work and pull that aircraft out after of coarse you pay a hefty bill.When its done INSPECT THEIR WORK! Insure all that was done was done,sign offs. You can acquire the assistance of an Knowledgeable IA or A&P to look over the work. When you can fly it out of there don't walk but Run. There are to many other good honest shops out here that can full fill your needs. I learned one good thing in that shop and that was what "NOT TO DO"! I gracefully resigned and went to start my own business. I run my Interior shop like a tight ship. I have broken down the work in hours to gauge delivery times by type aircraft and per items. You add a few days for discrepancies. That some times comes up but I notify the client immediately show the details. I have offered clients bought time slots through out the year. So that I can guarantee their aircraft is underway and and given full attention. King Airs or 150's they all get equal treatment.
After all this said the next shop you request work you need to ask for references and call on them get there experiences. Ask to see a schedule of workload if they are reluctant then they are hiding something. I have given back cost if the job wasn't completed as scheduled. The big Interior shops do this to gain those high costing Interior Jobs I know for a fact. If its going to cost them. I promise my friends they well do their hardest to get that job out on time.In the closing here after all Its your money invest it wisely, right? I know your pain my friend Its time to take back control of your aircraft. I have a saying in my shop "Our work is our advertisement":yes:
 
More good discussion, thanks.

The shop is in California and I don't believe this is SOP there. We had used them for about a year for 100hr and annuals. We thought that using this shop we could get it painted and the engine overhauled in parallel.

Joe
 
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