Successful People

Jaybird180

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Napoleon Hill said:
"Analysis of several hundred people who had accumulated fortunes well beyond the million dollar mark, disclosed the fact that every one of them had the habit of reaching decisions promptly, and changing these decisions slowly, if and when they were changed at all. People who fail to accumulate money, without exception, have the habit of reaching decisions, if at all, very slowly, and of changing these decisions quickly and often."
Bold Mine


I haven't yet had opportunity to study up-close the habits of multi-millionaires, but I believe this statement to be true. During a conversation, it was disclosed to me that the reason for some challenges with a particular person with whom I work, is difference of mindset; they have the habit of changing mind quickly and often (and without explanation) while I have groomed myself away from this.

Please share how you have observed the relationship between decisiveness and success (or money) in your experience?
 
Anytime someone says "Without exception," I have to wonder about the source and accuracy of the survey that established this. I grant there might be a tendency for people who make decisions slowly and change them rapidly to be less successful, but I question whether that's a universal (e.g., "without exception") trait among those who "Fail to accumulate money." The author is basically saying that making the CORRECT decision is less important that deciding quickly and stubbornly sticking the course.


Ron Wanttaja
 
Anytime someone says "Without exception," I have to wonder about the source and accuracy of the survey that established this.
EXACTLY!

I have dealt with plenty of millionaires who can't make up their minds.
 
self-made or silver-spoon?
I didn't ask, but I think even that can vary....some people make millions by busting their tails.....some get relatively lucky and find themselves in the right place at the right time. I wouldn't exactly call those kinds 'silver spoon' millionaires, but they are hardly the go-getter decisive types.

I think there is some merit in what you posted....by like Ron said, the 'study' comes across as a little suspect.
 
I think the claimed millionaire trait of "reaching decisions promptly and changing them slowly" misses one major factor: The ability and experience of the person making the decision.

Someone like Warren Buffet will take a lifetime of experience, and what is probably a genius-level intellect, and quickly grasp what might be the appropriate decision. He may not be able to put his finger on exactly what made him decide that way. It may be based on a past event that he doesn't particularly remember. But his "gut feel" is probably something he trusts.

For example, take two pilots...one with a fresh ATP, the other one has been flying for the airlines for 30 years. Both have been trained to the same level of expertise, which includes the ability to make quick decisions (it's necessary, in flying). Who's going to have the best chance of making the right one?

I'm willing to agree the ability to make quick decisions, and stick to them, is a trait that many successful people have. But I'm just saying the ability to make the RIGHT decision is more important. The ability to assess that decision in light of new data or ongoing events and determine whether to continue with it is a better course than the stubborn continuation of an original course.

I reference the recent "Mythbusters" presentation on the "Monty Hall Paradox"....

Ron Wanttaja
 
The opposite can be true. An overemphasis on decisiveness can have negative consequences. Do you keep your ship careening down the winding and dangerous road with a barrier ahead or are you open to new data?

Also I reject the premise of your thread title. $/=success and vice versa.

I work in a field where life and death decisions must be made in an instant. Sure, be decisive. But to be successful you must be open to instantly changing course based on feedback from your senses, your peers or preliminary results, or bad things can happen. Being bullheaded is a sure sign of failure in your future.

And then there is the whole deal about sunk costs and human nature.
 
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Also I reject the premise of your thread title. $/=success and vice versa.

For the record, Napoleon Hill's 1937 book was the result of interviews with some people who would be considered successful even in non-monetary term:
"These included Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford, Elmer Gates, Charles M. Schwab, Theodore Roosevelt, William Wrigley Jr, John Wanamaker, William Jennings Bryan, George Eastman, Woodrow Wilson, William H. Taft, John D. Rockefeller, F. W. Woolworth, Jennings Randolph, among others." -- http://napoleonhill.wwwhubs.com/
​
With these kinds of people, back when a million dollars was a large amount of money, the degree of their decisiveness doesn't seem to be a significant element of their success.
 
Regardless of how one approaches decision-making, accumulating lots of money depends as much on not wasting money as in acquiring it.

I think it's safe to say that most millionaires never wasted money on stuff like "traits of successful people" books. :D
 
Analysis-paralysis is a real problem.

That doesn't mean that thoughtfulness is bad. Nor does it mean that impulsiveness is good. But it does mean that sitting on your keyster and dwelling on something while opportunity passes by is much worse than doing SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE on a prompt schedule.
 
I also think they missed some things here...

Some of the very successful business owners I know have the ability to make a fast decision, but they also know how to avoid completely or delegate away the less important decisions people constantly bring them. Stuff that doesn't really matter, they have an innate ability to avoid. Stuff that does matter, they've often thought it through long before the decision is presented to them. They're rarely surprised, I guess is what I'd call it.

Some of that "fast decision-making" may actually be a sign of them thinking far enough ahead to know the decision-making request is coming. Mixed with an ability to realize when a decision isn't "life or death" for their business and always keeping the bottom line in mind, also factors in.

I've seen multimillionaires simply shun or REFUSE to make a decision on something that's not YET costing them any money, and WILL in the future -- but they want time to think about it, knowing the decision is coming. IT Infrastructure purchases usually fall into this category in a growing organization. I can give my detailed analysis of a system -- summarizing it down to a simple line or two...

"The current load on the machines is growing by a factor of 3 every six months. I predict the system will be overloaded by X date. Here's a quote on the next generation of hardware required which will allow the same growth rate for 2 more years."

They'll sit on that statement above for months... and finally purchase the gear about 30 days prior to complete failure. That's very common in my world. User experience is usually also not as important as up/down.
 
In the cases of the wealthy people that I've been exposed to in the last few years, it's not that they made a quick decision even though it may have appeared so. They had worked long hours and studied many things and when the situation arose, they drew on the knowledge that they had accumulated to make a timely decision. From my experience watching my husband who is a successful business man and in running a (smaller compared to the gun shop) business, it takes lots of behind the scenes hours to make the business successful. 24/7/365 And while there are perks, you have to put up with all the downturns as well.

I just recently read Napoleon Hill's book. It's really amazing that it was written so long ago and still has so much application.
 
With these kinds of people, back when a million dollars was a large amount of money,...
Jim- would you like to make a small donation....
(get my point?)

At my level, it still is a large amount of money.

Not long ago I dreamed of being where I am today; I look forward to tomorrow.
 
At today's interest rates, a $1,000,000 in a Savings Account will Net you about $2000 a year. Don't think most folks can live on that.

Money Market account? Maybe $15,000 if you're lucky.

To get a reasonable return on $1M, the risk level is off the charts.
 
At today's interest rates, a $1,000,000 in a Savings Account will Net you about $2000 a year. Don't think most folks can live on that.

Money Market account? Maybe $15,000 if you're lucky.

To get a reasonable return on $1M, the risk level is off the charts.

I'm doing it wrong.

<---<^>--->
 
For example, take two pilots...one with a fresh ATP, the other one has been flying for the airlines for 30 years. Both have been trained to the same level of expertise, which includes the ability to make quick decisions (it's necessary, in flying). Who's going to have the best chance of making the right one?

Depends on the situation. In an airliner, the airline pilot of 30 years. If in a GA airplane, it will probably be the new ATP who has lots of recent experience in such aircraft.
 
Wow, didn't realize there were so many disadvantages to having the stash. Silly me, thinking that getting 6-7k/mo tax free for the next twelve+ years while alternating between flying my airplane and playing golf every day was a pretty decent deal. What are you doing with your mil?


At today's interest rates, a $1,000,000 in a Savings Account will Net you about $2000 a year. Don't think most folks can live on that.

Money Market account? Maybe $15,000 if you're lucky.

To get a reasonable return on $1M, the risk level is off the charts.
 
In my experiences observing wealthy, self-made men, they all share a stubborn, almost in-born unwillingness to fail. Failure is simply not an option for them -- so they succeed.

If that means working a billion hours, so be it. If that means eating dirt, missing Christmas, and doing their own building maintenance, so be it. This is the only common trait I've noticed between self-made millionaires, whether they made it in real estate, property management, computers, or whatever.

The silver spoon rich guys are a whole 'nother kettle of fish. They tend to make me ill.
 
Wow, didn't realize there were so many disadvantages to having the stash. Silly me, thinking that getting 6-7k/mo tax free for the next twelve+ years while alternating between flying my airplane and playing golf every day was a pretty decent deal. What are you doing with your mil?

No mil here! ;)

Was just pointing out that "being a millionaire" isn't what it used to be.

It won't even keep up with inflation once that rears its ugly head again. $10 million might.
 
I can only tell you what worked for us.
Having a spouse that 100% agreed that having money in the bank was more important than:
living in a fancy house
driving an expensive car
fancy jewelry
vacations in Europe
playing golf at the country club
keeping up with the Jones's
having the latest and best 'anything'
(not that we lived poor, just that we always looked at the most bang for the buck)

We also agreed that working 12-14 hours a day, then eating supper at some cheap restaurant (usually the same ma and pa place every night) and going home to bed WAS living the good life.
We spent the last 35 years of working, getting up at 4:30 AM and falling into bed at 9PM - we were real party animals! Oh yeah, we went to our business conventions, and our airplane took us to Chicago or Cleveland for a weekend a few times a year and we flew to Sun-N-Fun now and then, but mainly we worked...

Stayed at it for 50+ years... Then we woke up one morning and discovered that "overnight" we 'suddenly' didn't have to ever work again...

That is what worked for us...
As far as decisive - I have to think things all the way through first - and I take my time... But once I get there, I then move immediately and 100%...
Only take risks that have the potential for great reward (very carefully thought through risks with many a 3AM sitting up in bed with a pad of paper and a calculator)
Run your own business... It is very difficult to accumulate that magic $1M dollars working on wages...
Maybe if you are a professional you can be an employee and accumulate that money but even there you had best be buying apartments, or some franchise business on the side, or whatever...
Don't play the stock market (or Vegas - shiver) Yeah, I had money in stocks/bonds up to the end of 07, but they were held for decades... Until the day I sold everything I had not sold/traded a stock more than a couple of times in my entire life... If it was not a company that I wanted to own a part of for the rest of my life, I did not buy it in the first place...

So in summary - the one defining absolute characteristic:
Millionaires spend less than they earn, every day, every month, every year - period.


Now, if she and I keep saving part of our social security checks every month maybe we can be 'millionaires' someday...

denny-o
 
All of those bromides about inflation and other stuff ignore a fundamental truth that even some of the financial-planner types have never understood. Only recently have Scott Burns and a few others been able to definitively prove that people who have accumulated some dough tend to spend and need less (and in some cases a lot less) than the post-retirement costs that were assumed using the historic models.

Numerous reasons for the change in spending habits, all common-sense stuff that most of the retirees have known for years but didn't mention since none of the hot-shot financial guys bothered to ask them.

Among the changes in need for income are:

1. Everything is paid for. Houses, cars, airplanes, toys, college educations, weddings, furniture, consumer goods, whatever. So no payments, no credit restrictions, no banker offering friendly advice, and no reason to dilly-dally when a good deal presents itself.

2. Cash on hand, and usually more than necessary. If the price is right and we want it, the money is either in the bank or under the mattress.

3. No peer pressure. We already got what we want and need, don't feel any urge to replace or upgrade without good reason. If some guy thinks he needs a Bentley, more power to him. For the crap I haul around every day, a Suburban or Yukon XL is the right truck for me, so no pangs of envy with somebody's new ride. And even when we decide to buy something, then, we've been around long enough to know somebody who knows somebody.

4. BTDT. Many people have already done a lot of the things they want to do, so the magic of a winter home in the desert or a boat in St. Martin or a place in the country isn't something they need or want to do again. We've traveled the world more than once (or at least the parts we want to see) and are less tempted to go back.

5. Houses shrink. Many have dumped the big place (and expense) where they raised their kids and now live in houses that are more appropriate for empty nesters. In our case, the square footage numbers flipped from 6.2k to 2.6k when we moved to town. Still too big, but she's not downsizing more--at least not yet. And we still have the damn pool.

4. Uncle Sam kicks in. After 50-some years of paying in, the checks start to show up. Nobody is going to get rich on the $2,500/mo they send me (at least for as long as you guys keep working) but it pays for green fees, avgas and a couple of months out of town when weather here is crap.

5. Needs/wants decline. Many things that might have been somewhat enticing (and probably a bit expensive) in the past no longer sound like fun. Clothes, dining out, electronics, entertainment, other such stuff are curtailed.

6. Costs are capped. Our property taxes are (partially) capped, and seniors get good deals at restaurants, recreation and entertainment venues. For $27, I get a breakfast buffet, lunch buffet, green fees, golf cart, practice balls and two beers/sodas at a nice club. With a deal like that, I can't afford to stay home.

7. Carry-over jobs. Opportunities for consulting and/or project work often arise. It's not unusual to hear about a job that somebody wants done, and are willing to pay a decent number to get it done right. Hasn't happened as much since 4Q2008, but more stuff showing up now.

8. Counting years not money. At some point everybody does the math. The end game is nothing more than a race to determine whether you'll run out of air before you run out of money. Once you know how that will most likely shake out, everything else is just details.

PS: I'll be in Palm Desert, CA for the month of Feb if anybody is around and wants to drop in for golf and good food. One of our regulars is a hell of a cook. We'll have a bed for you.



No mil here! ;)

Was just pointing out that "being a millionaire" isn't what it used to be.

It won't even keep up with inflation once that rears its ugly head again. $10 million might.
 
I, based on the opening information, have all the traits of being incredibly wealthy, yet I'm not. How can this be?

John
 
I, based on the opening information, have all the traits of being incredibly wealthy, yet I'm not. How can this be?

John

Having an essential ingredient does not mean you have all the ingredients to make the cake.
 
All of those bromides about inflation and other stuff ignore a fundamental truth that even some of the financial-planner types have never understood. Only recently have Scott Burns and a few others been able to definitively prove that people who have accumulated some dough tend to spend and need less (and in some cases a lot less) than the post-retirement costs that were assumed using the historic models.

Numerous reasons for the change in spending habits, all common-sense stuff that most of the retirees have known for years but didn't mention since none of the hot-shot financial guys bothered to ask them.

Among the changes in need for income are:

1. Everything is paid for. Houses, cars, airplanes, toys, college educations, weddings, furniture, consumer goods, whatever. So no payments, no credit restrictions, no banker offering friendly advice, and no reason to dilly-dally when a good deal presents itself.

2. Cash on hand, and usually more than necessary. If the price is right and we want it, the money is either in the bank or under the mattress.

3. No peer pressure. We already got what we want and need, don't feel any urge to replace or upgrade without good reason. If some guy thinks he needs a Bentley, more power to him. For the crap I haul around every day, a Suburban or Yukon XL is the right truck for me, so no pangs of envy with somebody's new ride. And even when we decide to buy something, then, we've been around long enough to know somebody who knows somebody.

4. BTDT. Many people have already done a lot of the things they want to do, so the magic of a winter home in the desert or a boat in St. Martin or a place in the country isn't something they need or want to do again. We've traveled the world more than once (or at least the parts we want to see) and are less tempted to go back.

5. Houses shrink. Many have dumped the big place (and expense) where they raised their kids and now live in houses that are more appropriate for empty nesters. In our case, the square footage numbers flipped from 6.2k to 2.6k when we moved to town. Still too big, but she's not downsizing more--at least not yet. And we still have the damn pool.

4. Uncle Sam kicks in. After 50-some years of paying in, the checks start to show up. Nobody is going to get rich on the $2,500/mo they send me (at least for as long as you guys keep working) but it pays for green fees, avgas and a couple of months out of town when weather here is crap.

5. Needs/wants decline. Many things that might have been somewhat enticing (and probably a bit expensive) in the past no longer sound like fun. Clothes, dining out, electronics, entertainment, other such stuff are curtailed.

6. Costs are capped. Our property taxes are (partially) capped, and seniors get good deals at restaurants, recreation and entertainment venues. For $27, I get a breakfast buffet, lunch buffet, green fees, golf cart, practice balls and two beers/sodas at a nice club. With a deal like that, I can't afford to stay home.

7. Carry-over jobs. Opportunities for consulting and/or project work often arise. It's not unusual to hear about a job that somebody wants done, and are willing to pay a decent number to get it done right. Hasn't happened as much since 4Q2008, but more stuff showing up now.

8. Counting years not money. At some point everybody does the math. The end game is nothing more than a race to determine whether you'll run out of air before you run out of money. Once you know how that will most likely shake out, everything else is just details.

PS: I'll be in Palm Desert, CA for the month of Feb if anybody is around and wants to drop in for golf and good food. One of our regulars is a hell of a cook. We'll have a bed for you.

Plus all of your commuting costs are gone. Fewer dry cleaning bills, no more tolls to be paid, less gas in your car, no more daily lunches out, coffees every morning, etc.

Yes, I know you can avoid a few of the above even when working, but when you are pressed for time it is harder.
 
I can only tell you what worked for us.
Having a spouse that 100% agreed that having money in the bank was more important than:
living in a fancy house
driving an expensive car
fancy jewelry
vacations in Europe
playing golf at the country club
keeping up with the Jones's
having the latest and best 'anything'
(not that we lived poor, just that we always looked at the most bang for the buck)

We also agreed that working 12-14 hours a day, then eating supper at some cheap restaurant (usually the same ma and pa place every night) and going home to bed WAS living the good life.
We spent the last 35 years of working, getting up at 4:30 AM and falling into bed at 9PM - we were real party animals! Oh yeah, we went to our business conventions, and our airplane took us to Chicago or Cleveland for a weekend a few times a year and we flew to Sun-N-Fun now and then, but mainly we worked...

Stayed at it for 50+ years... Then we woke up one morning and discovered that "overnight" we 'suddenly' didn't have to ever work again...

That is what worked for us...
As far as decisive - I have to think things all the way through first - and I take my time... But once I get there, I then move immediately and 100%...
Only take risks that have the potential for great reward (very carefully thought through risks with many a 3AM sitting up in bed with a pad of paper and a calculator)
Run your own business... It is very difficult to accumulate that magic $1M dollars working on wages...
Maybe if you are a professional you can be an employee and accumulate that money but even there you had best be buying apartments, or some franchise business on the side, or whatever...
Don't play the stock market (or Vegas - shiver) Yeah, I had money in stocks/bonds up to the end of 07, but they were held for decades... Until the day I sold everything I had not sold/traded a stock more than a couple of times in my entire life... If it was not a company that I wanted to own a part of for the rest of my life, I did not buy it in the first place...

So in summary - the one defining absolute characteristic:
Millionaires spend less than they earn, every day, every month, every year - period.


Now, if she and I keep saving part of our social security checks every month maybe we can be 'millionaires' someday...

denny-o

No offense, Denny, at all - but that much austerity doesn't sound like fun. Especially x50. I hope you didn't sacrifice too much, especially if you are in your 70s now. We don't know what our future will hold or how long we will live. You have to have dessert first at least some of the time.

I can definitely understand living in utterly no more house than you need and driving no more car than you need, though. And given that those two things tend to generate the most daily-living kinds of expenses, it would seem that anyone who can at least tame those two beasts will be better off in the long run.
 
Hard as I try I will never be the 1% nor the 99%.. maybe my math is off..

<---<^>--->
 
No offense, Denny, at all - but that much austerity doesn't sound like fun. Especially x50. I hope you didn't sacrifice too much, especially if you are in your 70s now. We don't know what our future will hold or how long we will live. You have to have dessert first at least some of the time.

I can definitely understand living in utterly no more house than you need and driving no more car than you need, though. And given that those two things tend to generate the most daily-living kinds of expenses, it would seem that anyone who can at least tame those two beasts will be better off in the long run.

When you don't have an inheritance to look forward to or marry into wealth Danny's formula is a good one for creating wealth.

It does not take until 70 to achieve. ;)
 
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I chose the non-austerity path too. At age 27 and thinking about my future after public accounting, a guy tried to recruit me into the insurance business. His pitch was that any employer would only pay what the job was worth, and that if I wanted to earn what I thought I was worth I would have to do it by being my own boss.

I had already learned that accumulating significant savings was difficult on a salary, even a decent one at the time. I also knew I liked nice things, and came to the conclusion that I could either:

1. continue to scrimp and save as a salaried employee, or

2. do something on my own and hopefully make things happen, enjoy a good lifestyle during the working years, and then get out early and have some left for geezerhood.

So far, so good.

I was never into austerity, even less so as I become older. But to each his or her own.
 
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