Sub lost contact over Titanic

ElPaso Pilot said:
Interesting ballast release mechanism for the repurposed old pipes, if true:

pipes.png


"So here's the ballast. The journalist who went in it says you release it by getting everyone to sit on one side of the sub so it rolls enough for the pipes to fall off the shelf"

https://twitter.com/BirdTickler/status/1671002901064425472
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I could have fabricobbled something a little more elegant. Id have at least gone with stainless pipe or solid bar in lieu of rusty steel and sandbags. Seriously this thing looks like it was built in the dudes garage.
 
Racerx said:
I could have fabricobbled something a little more elegant. Id have at least gone with stainless pipe or solid bar in lieu of rusty steel and sandbags. Seriously this thing looks like it was built in the dudes garage.
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I think that was the general theme here. The interior lighting was literally sourced from Camping World, as well.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Nor do the families of billionaires.

The legal aftermath is going to be ugly…..
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Everybody left will blame the CEO for cutting corners which is probably true. The Sea has taken care of/will be taking care of him.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Expensive lawyers can sometimes trace where money was funneled and argue a legitimate claim.

I can see this becoming a battle of who’s lawyers are better.
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I’ve only read this thread so I probably missed something…why would the sub company have much in assets? Minimal number of revenue generating rides and (now mostly) worthless subs and parts.

I guess they could find the sub and see customer Joe billionaire did something which killed them all.
 
If they somehow survive....would you sue? I mean if ever there was a time for mental anguish that would be it. Or just be thankful youre alive?
 
Racerx said:
If they somehow survive....would you sue? I mean if ever there was a time for mental anguish that would be it. Or just be thankful youre alive?
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If they didn’t return my money, I’d sue to get it back. Beyond that, I don’t believe in monetary compensation for mental anguish, and I don’t think they have any money to get from them as punishment to teach them a lesson.
 
Anyone survives this and they have a book deal and maybe movie rights, but on the other hand they all had 6 figures to spend on a trip to the bottom of the ocean, so probably don't need the book deal.
 
Albany Tom said:
Anyone survives this and they have a book deal and maybe movie rights, but on the other hand they all had 6 figures to spend on a trip to the bottom of the ocean, so probably don't need the book deal.
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Well, I would hope at the very least they get a refund.
 
Have we reached the wild speculation (meeting with aliens!)/tasteless joke section of the timeline?

Every forum has their own guidelines
 
Albany Tom said:
Anyone survives this and they have a book deal and maybe movie rights, but on the other hand they all had 6 figures to spend on a trip to the bottom of the ocean, so probably don't need the book deal.
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What does ‘need’ have to do with it? This demographic crossed the line from need to ‘because I can’ a long time ago.
 
Have to imagine at least one person had a cell phone and documented what was going on, if it wasn’t a quick implosion type deal.
 
I think this was over days ago, for them. Just like with MH-370, nothing wrong with having hope for a better outcome, especially with families.

Even if they found the sub, the harder part is attaching then getting it up. They haven’t even found it yet, publicly. Seems there are other hazards with the air inside besides just time limits with O2.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Hoping for a good outcome, of course, but if it had a hull failure USN probably heard it.
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An implosion, you bet. A slow leak, not so much. One would hope that they'd inflate the balloons immediately in that case.
 
sourdough44 said:
I think this was over days ago, for them. Just like with MH-370, nothing wrong with having hope for a better outcome, especially with families.

Even if they found the sub, the harder part is attaching then getting it up. They haven’t even found it yet, publicly. Seems there are other hazards with the air inside besides just time limits with O2.
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They have CO2 scrubbers, or at least one; it's possible they'll exhaust that before they use up all of the O2. High CO2 levels can induce panic (the breathing reflex is triggered, but cannot be satisfied.)
 
sourdough44 said:
Just like with MH-370, nothing wrong with having hope for a better outcome,
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True. And for the MH-370, finding the wreckage could also potentially lead to identifying a preventable cause. Here, though, it seems any such lessons may have limited value, given the nature of the “workmanship” we’re being shown.
 
JOhnH said:
The CEO of OceanGate, which is operating the missing Titanic tourist submarine, explains that the company didn’t want to hire any experienced “50 year old white guys” because they weren’t “inspirational.”
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1671372833979785217
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Just read and agree with this quote from the Toyota web site about the development of the Prius....
"When you have the same people working for years within the same company who develop a discerning eye for technology, it makes a tremendous difference in the product you deliver.

Given probably wasn't "white guys" but the idea is the same and I see companies forgetting and letting go of their experience all the time. and they then have to learn and pay for the same lessons over again. Notice they didn't say they didn't bring in new talent and ideas, in fact much of the article is about they push their people to be "inspirational".

Brian
 
97 hours have now passed since the dive began with an oxygen supply estimated at 96 hours.

Screenshot 2023-06-22 at 8.38.49 AM.png

From a WSJ article:
"Past travelers who climbed into the minivan-sized tube that is the Titan deep-sea submersible knew they might die. Risk of death is mentioned at least three times on a waiver they signed before boarding.
 
NoHeat said:
97 hours have now passed since the dive began with an oxygen supply estimated at 96 hours.

From a WSJ article:
"Past travelers who climbed into the minivan-sized tube that is the Titan deep-sea submersible knew they might die. Risk of death is mentioned at least three times on a waiver they signed before boarding."
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To be fair, the waiver I signed to play in my recreational hockey league includes the word death twice. That doesn't mean that anyone expects to die doing it.
 
Like everything else in life, there are no guarantees. You pays your money, takes your chances. Sometimes things don’t work out. Move on.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Wouldn't there likely be some noise signature / acoustics that should be known by now if the craft was imploding???
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yes there would be noise caused by an implosion. Your use of the plural “imploding” is not the case, however. At those pressures, an implosion would be very close to instantaneous.

The noise generated by the implosion would be loud, and very short in duration.

-Skip
 
Racerx said:
If they somehow survive....would you sue? I mean if ever there was a time for mental anguish that would be it. Or just be thankful youre alive?
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The release was pretty clear. Were I a jury member, absent some evidence of fraud, I would find that they passengers knew and assumed the risk. The stuff people are posting shows they were pretty straightforward regarding their engineering and construction techniques.
 
Baked Potato said:
To be fair, the waiver I signed to play in my recreational hockey league includes the word death twice. That doesn't mean that anyone expects to die doing it.
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It's not about expecting to die. It's about understanding that it could happen, and accepting the risk that it might.
 
(a) It's not likely that anyone who signed that waiver and was on that trip will be a party to any lawsuit, and I believe one cannot waive someone else's (i.e. family member's) right to sue. It can show mindset of the signer, but I think in many cases it could be argued that the design and engineering was complex enough to make a realistic risk assessment by a layperson or someone without in-depth knowledge difficult.
(b) In many (most?) jurisdictions in the US one cannot waive gross negligence

I can't say whether any of these actually apply in this case, but they are points to consider.

Nauga,
whose jury is still out
 
I thought waivers were essentially useless and they really exist to discourage people from starting the process, but really don't do much in actuality?
 
Re: waivers. Sounds like several of the participants may hold foreign citizenships; that may add a level of complexity when it comes to suing over what is effectively a maritime operation.
 
eman1200 said:
Have to imagine at least one person had a cell phone and documented what was going on, if it wasn’t a quick implosion type deal.
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Unless, for one reason or the other, the tour operator banned private electronic devices aboard. There's the wish to control the narrative; there's also the fire danger from the cell-phone batteries. Suspect the vessel had a pretty good built-in video/audio system which would have been available to the passengers afterwards.

If it did implode, I suspect the SOSUS array would have caught it. However, publicizing that would have revealed capabilities of the system, which the Navy would have been loath to do. In any case, it would have indicated that the crew was dead anyway, and there'd be no rush.

Ron Wanttaja
 
TCABM said:
Re: waivers. Sounds like several of the participants may hold foreign citizenships; that may add a level of complexity when it comes to suing over what is effectively a maritime operation.
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Compounded by the fact that their CEO structured the operation to avoid US legal requirements and recent US laws regulating submersibles.

"Titan didn't have to register with a country or follow rules that apply to many vessels because it was loaded onto a Canadian boat and dropped into international waters."

"The Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, which regulates submersibles that carry passengers and requires that they be registered with the Coast Guard, does not apply to the Titan because it does not fly an American flag or operate in American waters"
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Quote from their CEO:

“There hasn’t been an injury in the commercial sub industry in over 35 years,” he told Smithsonian magazine in a profile published in 2019. “It’s obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn’t innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations.”

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/FR-1994-01-06/94-262#:~:text=The Passenger Vessel Safety Act,Coast Guard for passenger carriage.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/oceangate-titanic-missing-submersible.html​
 
Axtel4 said:
It is being reported that a debris field has been found in the search area.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/titanic-oceangate-submersible-search-update-june-22/44297847
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Coast Guard press release scheduled for 3:00 pm Eastern

https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Rel...-hold-press-briefing-to-discuss-rov-findings/


June 22, 2023
MEDIA AVAILABILITY: Coast Guard to hold press briefing to discuss ROV findings


WHO: Rear Adm. John Mauger, the First Coast Guard District commander, Capt. Jamie Frederick, the First Coast Guard District response coordinator

WHAT: The Coast Guard is scheduled to hold a press briefing to discuss findings from the Horizon Arctic’s remotely operated vehicle near the Titanic

WHEN: Thursday at 3:00 p.m.

WHERE: Coast Guard Base Boston at 427 Commercial St., Boston, MA 02109

Editor’s note: Media should be prepared to show media credentials and a government issued photo ID to gain access to the base. Base access will be allowed starting at 2:30 p.m.

BOSTON — The Coast Guard is scheduled to host a press briefing Thursday to discuss findings from the Horizon Arctic’s ROV on the sea floor near the Titanic.

Media inquiries should be directed to D1PublicAffairs@uscg.mil. The most updated information may be found at https://twitter.com/uscgnortheast.
 
Question. If it was a "slow" leak, would they have drowned or been crushed to death by the pressure first?

Assuming they are gone at this point, I think the faster the better. I can't imagine the combination of claustrophobia, waste, humidity, cold, and awareness of how helpless you are lost to the world.

I feel really bad for the kid that may have just been joining dad for one of his cool adventures and maybe without a real understanding of the potential danger.
 
Darwinism is alive and well.
 
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