Studying for Checkride (oral) any advice?

SSDriver

SSDriver

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
14
Location
NJ
Display Name
Display name:
SSDriver
I'm studying for my practical coming up end of October for PPL. I'm trying to determine the most effective studying method for the Oral. Currenty I'm using the "Private Oral Exam Guide" from ASA, I'm making flash cards on each of the questions inside. Taking forever but best method I could think to adopt. I have issues absorbing material from just reading a book.

Close enough I can taste it and don't wanna blow it now.

Any advice on how you survived the oral would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
 
Best advice I can give is:
If it is something you need to know WHEN FLYING, you should be able to just do it. Airspace requirements as an example.
If it is something you could look up before you left the ground, then have the FAR's in front of you and know where to find it.
Something like "when is this plane due for an annual" type question.
You don't need to "figure that out" in the air.
 
markb5900 said:
Best advice I can give is:
If it is something you need to know WHEN FLYING, you should be able to just do it. Airspace requirements as an example.
If it is something you could look up before you left the ground, then have the FAR's in front of you and know where to find it.
Something like "when is this plane due for an annual" type question.
You don't need to "figure that out" in the air.
Click to expand...

Very true. Though I'd argue that even a question like "when is a plane due for an annual" should be in your head--it'll almost certainly come up at the beginning of your oral, and it's easy to remember (annual happens each year...duh! With a little FAA twist on it, of course). It's always good to get off to a really solid start--first impressions, both good and bad, are awfully hard to shake off. I think the best example of something not to memorize is accident reporting requirements--have the copy of the FARs in front of you and know exactly where they all are, but there's absolutely no reason to know them all by heart.

I used the Gleim book to help study and found it really helpful. Towards the end, I watched a video on Youtube of an oral exam and forced myself to answer every relevant question just to see if I had missed anything during my studies. Oh yeah, and relax relax relax! Study a little bit each day if you can and you'll be completely fine.
 
PBristolJr said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY2GEX67s34

Looks stupid and dated but trust me ;)
Click to expand...

This is definitely worth watching...lots of great information.

My advice would be to consider the questions from the written in a more practical sense. In other words, take MC questions from the written, and apply them to real life situations.

Remember, the DPE is looking for you to demonstrate that you are competent enough to act as PIC; he is not looking for cookie-cutter answers. Don't try to recite some memorized book answer; say what you, as PIC, would do. It's better to be conservative.
 
While there's a lot of good material in those "Oral Prep" books, the FAA guidance on practical tests no longer calls for those simple Q&A methods, but rather goes for "situationally based testing." For example, instead of asking you what the VFR weather mins are in Class E airspace, the examiner may ask you whether or not today's weather is good enough to make your planned XC flight under VFR, and how you came to that determination. This will test, in a more realistic manner, not only your rote knowledge of 91.155, but also your ability to apply that knowledge to a practical situation, not to mention your ability to read and interpret all the available weather data, as well as determining from the sectional what airspace you'll be in so you know which paragraph of 91.155 applies along each part of your route. Those old-style Q&A books can't prepare you for that -- only a good instructor familiar with the concept of situationally based testing can.
 
Ron Levy said:
While there's a lot of good material in those "Oral Prep" books, the FAA guidance on practical tests no longer calls for those simple Q&A methods, but rather goes for "situationally based testing."
Click to expand...

I actually enjoyed this. It just felt like any other flight prep with questions I already had to know anyway. Very comfortable.

I can see where it would (perhaps rightly) trip up anyone not used to thinking about how the regular act of prepping for, and of decision-making during the flight, interacts with the regs.

I'd spent a lot of time in rote memorization so some answers came quickly when applied from memory, others I'd read the material hard enough that I knew where the answer was and more importantly, knew it applied to the scenario given.

The only disadvantage is one has to know where they "might be going" with a particular scenario or just start rattling off all things that apply until you hit the one they were looking for. That technique seems to work well because maybe the next scenario was meant to cover some of those items, so the examiner says to themselves, "already covered that" and moves on.

If they're a "stump the dummy" type of personality, they'll eventually drive you to the books, but if you know where the general chapters fall in the book, you'll find it... Unless they're sneaky and ask something not covered in typical material that's out of left field. Sometimes they do that just to see if you realize the books still didn't teach you everything you could possibly learn. Those that like doing that know you covered the things they wanted and they just want to expand your world a touch more.

They know more than you do. That's one thing I've never seen written in a checkride prep helper document. They can stump you. Don't worry about it. If it wasn't in the book, give a reasonably thought through answer and say you're not sure. Give a reference to things you think might apply in the book and turn to it and look. Sometimes you just forget something esoteric is there.

And I wouldn't say the DPE I flew with was a stump the dummy type, but who knows... Different people at different prep levels might feel differently. I know one DPE who *definitely* is, and will admit it to a small crowd of trusted folks. He wants people to leave his checkrides knowing there is always more to learn, but he also knows where the standard lies and doesn't flunk people who can't come up with the wild/weird stuff he knows.
 
Be sure to know your systems, fuel capacity, horsepower, 12 or 24v electrical, alternator or generator, etc.

Know your V speeds and emergency procedures.

Know your sectional charts, if its on your chat you better know what it is and how it effects you.

Know how to calculator rule of thumb numbers for a x-country, how far for a diversion, do we have enough fuel

Know the mandatory maintenance (annual, 100hr, when is 100hr needed, xpdr)

Know what you need for your personal maintenance (alcohol, medical due dates, o2 altitudes).

If you want to go above and beyond, also know some stick and rudder skills, god forbid slip the plane ;)
 
denverpilot said:
I actually enjoyed this. It just felt like any other flight prep with questions I already had to know anyway. Very comfortable.
Click to expand...

I concur. Much easier for me actually--instead of being grilled for hours on end, I felt like I was just chatting about aviation. Fine by me any day of the week.

NineThreeKilo said:
Be sure to know your systems, fuel capacity, horsepower, 12 or 24v electrical, alternator or generator, etc.

Know your V speeds and emergency procedures.

Know your sectional charts, if its on your chat you better know what it is and how it effects you.

Know how to calculator rule of thumb numbers for a x-country, how far for a diversion, do we have enough fuel

Know the mandatory maintenance (annual, 100hr, when is 100hr needed, xpdr)

Know what you need for your personal maintenance (alcohol, medical due dates, o2 altitudes).

If you want to go above and beyond, also know some stick and rudder skills, god forbid slip the plane ;)
Click to expand...

The stick and rudder stuff wasn't at all "above and beyond" for my private oral this past summer. He spent tons of time talking about how airplanes fly, particularly in crosswinds. I suspect that's a fluke of sorts for me, but who knows. The DPE for my sport checkride last year didn't say anything about crosswinds.
 
Stay relaxed and only answer what the examiner wants to know. Don't dig yourself a hole. Also, don't let the examiner have to draw the answers out of you. Find a good study partner when we go to FlightSafety for a type rating. We hangout in the hotel or a classroom and quiz each other.
 
Mine was situational and required knowledge. Went through a rolodex of airport markings and signs. Then I had to explain a bit why did I route my XC the way I did. Went through few emergencies (popped circuit breaker. DPE thought resetting the breaker, and I wanted to land the plane at the nearest airfield). Few things on sectional, such as military training route, and how to contact FSS. That was it. He checked aircraft books himself. In total, my oral was 30 minutes.

One weird thing was that even through I had my required knowledge (V speeds, emergency procedures), I choked a bit on lightgun signals. When I said that I am not 100% sure on a certain signal, but I have them ready on my kneeboard, DPE got ****ed off, starting yelling that stuff like this I need to remember. Wouldn't let me look up, so I took a guess, and was correct.
 
Everyone above has given you great advice so I would just add that you really want to know the plane you plan on taking the flight portion in very well. Know if it's legal to fly that day which means you should know the required VFR equipment and verify the inspections are up to date. I had a few questions about that as well as specific questions like, "if the electrical system failed, would the engine stop?" Also I was asked about the fuel system so if you don't know if you have a gravity fed fuel system or not you're kind of sunk at that point.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Know what is required for airworthiness -- including placarding equipment INOP, maintenance log entries, and all that. Make sure your aircraft complies. Many don't (particularly for broken nonessential equipment).

You WILL get asked about it, and if you give the wrong answer, the DPE won't get in the aircraft with you.
 
I just a couple hours ago failed the oral.

My examiner was a "stump the dummy" type who literally did not let me look up anything, including preflight/planning items (including legend on sectional). I even pointed out how some of these items were not critical and how to legitimately handle the relevant scenario he gave. Didn't matter.

For where he pushed into excessive knowledge, when he found it, he played it off ("Hey, just relax!"), but in a way, I feel like he knew he was creating stress intentionally as part of his game.

And he then told me retest will be full price. Everyone at my flight school unanimously knows the "standard" is half-price, regardless of if you fail on oral or in flight. I called him on it and he got wishy washy...saying his typical protocol is fail the oral, full price, and fail in the air, half price...but he can work with me and he'll leave that up to me. WTF?

I understand that I am fully responsible for knowing what I need to know, and that I had a few flubs, but he seemed to tread that line of subjectivity exceptionally well. My expectations were not in line with his test method and I was not prepared as a result. I had no intention of throwing $600 away.
 
Where are you at that $600 is normal for a Private PIlot Checkride?
 
In a place where it's normal to be overcharged and taxed for everything!

Oh, and this examiner...wouldn't let me provide simplistic, straightforward answers. He always made me expound.
 
600 bucks is a little steep, I've seen them from 350 - 500, I told the 500 guy that I'll shop around.
 
Can you give an example of legend on sectional things? I can see airspace boundaries being critical to know, and esoteric symbols rarely seen, not... As one example.
 
Rides in my area are typically $300. I suspect his $600 figure is for the failed test and retest if full price is charged. I think I'd explore alternative examiners.
 
My DPE told me he charges $350 for a ride and $50/hr for retake if needed. The full ride fee for a retake is way too excessive.
 
"L" and "*L"... I only knew it was not L for length of runway; remembered that from my initial studying, but was too worked up to come close to recollecting what it was for.

My argument was for flight-planning I would understand what ports have lights, if I am flying at night and need them. His argument was that if I was flying at night I may not be able to look at the legend. My response was that if it was so bad I couldn't look at the legend, I likely wouldn't be able to pick through the chart to determine which ports were lighted for my scenario urgent diversion.

Oh, and too be clear...these students at my flight school flew with this DPE... all were clearly charged or expected to be charged 50% for retest regardless of when/how failed.

I've just accepted my flight school's word that this is standard, but I think I've read a few other posts on the net that say the same rate for my general area. I think I'll go ahead and call/message some other DPEs for pricing to be sure. What thing that surprised me was the DPE today mentioned these rates are fixed, including the recent increase from $500 in the last year. From what I've read on the net, these fees cannot and shall not be fixed, so I'm a bit confused on that.
 
Last edited:
jFlight said:
"L" and "*L"... I only knew it was not L for length of runway;
Click to expand...
That's pretty basic. You should be able to read and interpret the airport data block without the legend.

My argument was for flight-planning I would understand what ports have lights, if I am flying at night and need them. His argument was that if I was flying at night I may not be able to look at the legend.
Click to expand...
He's right.
 
You sound (based on internet typing) a little argumentative? You didn't argue with the DPE a lot, did you?
 
Meanee said:
My DPE told me he charges $350 for a ride and $50/hr for retake if needed. The full ride fee for a retake is way too excessive.
Click to expand...

Mine was $350 with free retest(s) if need be. The DPE I took my Sport checkride with was $400 with retesting for any reason at all (weather, I don't feel well, failing, etc) at $75/hr.
 
In addition to what everyone else said, here's a suggestion. Get with someone at your flight school who who just recently took their checkride and therefore would be familiar with how that particular DPE does it, and ask that person to spend some time with you and do a mock oral exam. You can offer to buy them lunch or dinner or something. That person would be familiar with that particular DPE's style of testing. What areas does he seem to emphasize more than others? Also that person can tell you how that DPE prefers to handle the flight test.

For example, a friend told me that during preflight his DPE drilled him on the mechanical aspects of the plane...magnetoes, spark plugs, various systems etc, whereas mine only asked why I was sumping the fuel. Mine focused more on me obtaining and understanding a weather briefing, and doing a weight and balance, than knowing when the ELT battery had been replaced. I guess you can say mine was less technical but focused more on other aspects.
Of course we do need to know all these things but knowing how we'll be tested can sure help.
 
jpower said:
Mine was $350 with free retest(s) if need be. The DPE I took my Sport checkride with was $400 with retesting for any reason at all (weather, I don't feel well, failing, etc) at $75/hr.
Click to expand...
Mine was $350 with what seemed free unlimited reschedules. I also didn't have to pay for 2 discontinuances (one for weather and one for equipment). It was my understanding that if I failed the flight portion, a retest would be $100, but as I passed I did not find out.
 
ChrisK said:
... but as I passed I did not find out.
Click to expand...

Me neither :)

Either way, though...being a DPE seems like a really nice gig to get one day. Though I understand it's really hard to get it...you have to have an in of some sort.
 
ja_user said:
You sound (based on internet typing) a little argumentative? You didn't argue with the DPE a lot, did you?
Click to expand...

No actual argument. I only gave him my reasoning and left it at that. I just sat back and listened to the guy hump his own leg repeatedly and went along with his very unprofessional conduct.

Ron Levy said:
That's pretty basic. You should be able to read and interpret the airport data block without the legend.

He's right.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I had broken down in that at a certain point I resigned myself. I became too stressed out that I wasn't able to reference what I knew I should have been able to reference. I clearly exhibited way-past-minimum knowledge is several area and he was digging hard.

It became somewhat apparent to me that I was destined to fail, based upon his conduct. My personal feeling is now, based upon his apparently highly subjective pricing structure ("Man, you must make good money doing what you do, considering you are single with no kids and all!"), is that he had passed enough students recently and targeted me to pad his pocket with a high retest fee.

And you are the one who wrote the checkride advice thread. No comment from you on the incorrect conduct of a closed-book checkride?

From multiple people I've spoken to in real life, it's been recommended I voice my story to the FSDO.

Between this, and the extra flying and ground to retest, getting to my license will cost me at least an extra grand. F***, I was gonna ride Spring Mountain Motorsports Raceway this weekend. Not anymore.

First October Sunday I am already rescheduled with a DIFFERENT DPE. I have a friend who is taking me under his wing between now and then to make sure I pass. He was not happy to hear my story.
 
Finally had my checkride on Friday. It was a completely different experience and the DPE was fantastic. Completely professional and was able to teach in a manner that was not based on ego stroking. I was actually enjoying the checkride and working with this DPE.

Sure, I was more prepared than the first time, but based on this experience, I believe that I could/should have passed the first time around. In fact, this DPE recommended that I should ask for money back from the original DPE, based on the fact the original started my checkride when he should not have, being that my paperwork was not correct.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top