Study for Multi by taking Comm Written

[spiderweb]

I'm about halfway through studying for the comm written, and I'm still back and forth about what I should do first, multi or comm. Then it hit me that 1) a passed written exam is good for 24 calendar months, and I might be able to do both within that time, and 2) studying for the comm written might actually help me prepare for some aspects of the multi oral. My reasoning for that last thought is that much of the comm certificate testing (written, oral, practical) is really "advanced VFR," and I could use the review of those items for the multi.

The multi oral and practical, I understand, will focus on the same things my original PP-ASEL covered, plus systems of whatever I will fly that day, and multies in general, plus flying multi-IFR.

So, the question is for those with multi-comm, or above: does this make sense? Shoot holes in the logic anywhere you feel appropriate. (Please do it on this thread--don't wuss out and give me bad rep because you don't like me asking a question. )

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Get the commercial....add the multi to it. No fuss, no muss.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

What John said.

 

[spiderweb]

Is that becuase I would have to fly an extra test if I do the multi before the comm (if I ever want to be CP-AMEL)?

 

[wsuffa]

Is that becuase I would have to fly an extra test if I do the multi before the comm (if I ever want to be CP-AMEL)?

Yep.

Suggest you get the commercial first, then the multi.

The commecial doesn't take very long, and it's all "eyes outside" the airplane, a nice break from instrument training.

 

[Steve]

unless you're planning to buy a multi next week, get the comm out of the way first and multi will be much easier to absorb (like in a week at most).

 

[Aztec Driver]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you can take the multi-comm checkride as all one ride. I had the AMEL first, which meant I had to take the second checkride to commercial level, but if I would have had all the requirements for the commercial done prior to taking the first ride, I could have done it all at once. You would then have Com-MEL, and then you could add on the single com with just the commercial single maneuvers. That would save a checkride if that is your ultimate goal. Personnally, I think the multi checkride is easier than the single.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you can take the multi-comm checkride as all one ride.

True. And if you are already instrument rated, that one can be done in the same ride also.

 

[bbchien]

True. And if you are already instrument rated, that one can be done in the same ride also.

I think comm Multi requires more hours than comm SE plus ME transition. The bird is more slippery. Easier to learn in smaller bits. Lazy 8s in the Seneca require forethough and vigilance. In an arrow they're just a blast.

Add to that instrument multi on the same ride and you've got a long day. Besides, doing the Comm SE is nothing but fun, fun fun.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Lazy 8s in the Seneca require forethough and vigilance. In an arrow they're just a blast.

Those manuevers aren't necessary for the multi comm. Those manuevers would need to be done in a single if you wanted to add that on later. It does require more hours and multi transition, but the manuevers aren't terribly difficult. If I can do them, anyone can. I went for the AMEL before and it would have required several long cross countries to be done for the commercial, but I decided at the time that I didn't have any use for the commercial. Stupid? Yes, but I fixed that now.

 

[poadeleted20]

Not sure how taking the Comm MEL first saves a checkride -- you still need two commercial rides (one MEL first, and the SEL add-on later) for a total of three rides (Pvt-ASEL, Comm-AMEL, Comm-ASEL). Where you have to take an extra ride is when you get both SEL and MEL at the Pvt level (two Pvt rides), and then want to upgrade both ratings to Comm and have to take two Comm rides for a total of four rides.

As for doing the initial Comm in a twin, I'm not sure it takes more time than doing it in a single for the reasons Bruce gave. You have to get 20 hours of training for the Commercial either way. Where you add time is having to fill the 61.129(b)(4) "solo" requirements in twin, when most pilots have the 61.129(a)(4) solo requirements covered already somewhere along the line in a single.

 

[jdwatson]

Yep.

Suggest you get the commercial first, then the multi.

The commecial doesn't take very long, and it's all "eyes outside" the airplane, a nice break from instrument training.

That made it more difficult for me in the beginning. All that hood work... it became habit to fly everything by instruments. Chandelles & Lazy-8s by instruments wasn't all that smooth.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Not sure how taking the Comm MEL first saves a checkride -- you still need two commercial rides (one MEL first, and the SEL add-on later) for a total of three rides (Pvt-ASEL, Comm-AMEL, Comm-ASEL). Where you have to take an extra ride is when you get both SEL and MEL at the Pvt level (two Pvt rides), and then want to upgrade both ratings to Comm and have to take two Comm rides for a total of four rides.

That is what I was referring to. Unfortunately, that is what I did.

 

[spiderweb]

But how do you feel about studying for the comm, and that helping also for the multi ride?

 

[bbchien]

Those manuevers aren't necessary for the multi comm. Those manuevers would need to be done in a single if you wanted to add that on later.

They're required once. If you're doing them in a multi-comm ride, then you're demonstrating them in a multi, rather then in a lomewhat less slick single (think, Heavy powerful Mooney). I suppose it really doesn't matter but you're paying for all that multi time and have a steeper learning curve....No?

But how do you feel about studying for the comm, and that helping also for the multi ride?

Not of much value....

 

[Ed Guthrie]

They're required once. If you're doing them in a multi-comm ride, then you're demonstrating them in a multi, rather then in a lomewhat less slick single (think, Heavy powerful Mooney). I suppose it really doesn't matter but you're paying for all that multi time and have a steeper learning curve....No?Not of much value....

The COM/AMEL (initial) TASK table has only steep turns for performance maneuvers (see the second half of the COM airplane PTS). IOW, you don't do the chandelles, etc., during an initial COM AMEL ride. Not at all. Not an option.

 

[bbchien]

The COM/AMEL (initial) TASK table has only steep turns for performance maneuvers (see the second half of the COM airplane PTS). IOW, you don't do the chandelles, etc., during an initial COM AMEL ride. Not at all. Not an option.

Just looked again, you're quite right. But I think the point about doing performance MANEUVER (ever just the 50 degree banked turn +/- 5 deg within 100 feet is substantially more difficult in a heavier aircraft. Once you get the maneuver going and you have some vertical speed, if you dont' arrest it 500 msec ago, you're going to bust.

Doing this in a 132,000 pound aircraft is quite a task. Even just for practice, the Lazy 8 in the Seneca gets quite ahead of you unless you deliberately make it a "comatose 8".

What I should have said, is, why make your learning curve any steeper than it has to be....

 

[gismo]

Just looked again, you're quite right. But I think the point about doing performance MANEUVER (ever just the 50 degree banked turn +/- 5 deg within 100 feet is substantially more difficult in a heavier aircraft. Once you get the maneuver going and you have some vertical speed, if you dont' arrest it 500 msec ago, you're going to bust.

Doing this in a 132,000 pound aircraft is quite a task. Even just for practice, the Lazy 8 in the Seneca gets quite ahead of you unless you deliberately make it a "comatose 8".

What I should have said, is, why make your learning curve any steeper than it has to be....

I took my first commercial ride in a twin, but it was the Baron I was quite comfortable in and it was no big deal. If I hadn't already had a bunch of time in a Baron, I'm sure the training would have been more difficult. I also had already met all the solo and non-dual xc work which helped. IOW if you are flying a twin regularly, taking the commercial AMEL training and checkride before doing commercial ASEL might make sense, but otherwise not IMO.

 

[EdFred]

Of course if you own a fixed gear single, you don't have to rent a single to do the C-ASEL if you get the C-AMEL first. If you own a fixed single, it means only renting for one rating.

 

[gismo]

Of course if you own a fixed gear single, you don't have to rent a single to do the C-ASEL if you get the C-AMEL first. If you own a fixed single, it means only renting for one rating.

That was also part of my plan. I own both a twin and a very simple single (fixed gear, no electrical, no flaps, no C/S prop, not even a mixture control). Taking the AMEL commercial first allowed me to use the single for the ASEL add-on so no renting was required at all.

 

[poadeleted20]

But how do you feel about studying for the comm, and that helping also for the multi ride?

IIRC, there are no multi questions on the Commercial knowledge test, so I can't see that helping for the multi add-on at the Pvt level.

 

[spiderweb]

OK, thanks guys! I'm still playing with doing the multi first, only because you can rent solo right after you get your ticket at FDK.

 

[SCCutler]

Ben, I'm dabbling around with which rating to get next myself.

Right now, ME is in the lead, but just by a nose. Still noodling it, though.

 

[gismo]

Ben, I'm dabbling around with which rating to get next myself.

Right now, ME is in the lead, but just by a nose. Still noodling it, though.

IMO the best reason to get your multi rating (assuming you're not about to buy a twin) is so you can log multi time whenever you manage to get your hands on the controls of one. I acquired more than ten free hours in twins this way before I bought the Baron. About four of those hours were sales demo flights in various twins I looked at before buying and the rest were during rides in other peoples airplanes. While of little value proficiency wise, those hours helped make me insurable in the Baron when the time came.

 

[spiderweb]

Ben, I'm dabbling around with which rating to get next myself.

Right now, ME is in the lead, but just by a nose. Still noodling it, though.

It is for me, too, if only because I might actually use the certificate, whereas I wouldn't use the comm for anything except the challenge.

 

[spiderweb]

IMO the best reason to get your multi rating (assuming you're not about to buy a twin) is so you can log multi time whenever you manage to get your hands on the controls of one. I acquired more than ten free hours in twins this way before I bought the Baron. About four of those hours were sales demo flights in various twins I looked at before buying and the rest were during rides in other peoples airplanes. While of little value proficiency wise, those hours helped make me insurable in the Baron when the time came.

For me, getting the rating wouldn't have much to do with the logging aspect. I'm more interested in having the speed and extra capability. Of course, the only place around here that rents multies rents the Seminole. . . .

 

[jdwatson]

At least you have a twin that can be rented. I haven't found one around here (KRDU). I'll probably put off the multi-engine rating until next year, unless I get laid-off from here and need to become a freight-dog.

 

[inav8r]

My local FBO used to have a PA-34-200 Seneca twin for $125/hr semi-wet (if you buy gas somewhere else you get the lesser of the price you paid or the FBO cost of AV-gas per gal). Of course just before I got my PPL someone bent a prop and it's been down ever since - if only they'd get it back online - I'd consider getting the multi!