Students view of the left seat

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

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It will come with time, I'm sure. But in the student thread maybe it is good to know how we newcomers see things.

Taxiing, takeoff, flying straight, and also banking angles as seen from the left seat are really disorientering.

My new intructor told me to find a "thing" like a screw or whatever and when he sets the aircraft straight in the runway, orient myself to it.

He's a VERY experienced pilot. Maybe even too advanced for me. I don't know. But I have been trying to work this out since the last flight, and understand how to use my reference point. I feel like it is important.

I'm trying to work out how to use that reference point. I experienced it like this, I thought I was understanding that my viewpoint in the left seat was shifted from reality during taxi. My previous instructor tried to tell me that my left knee was the centerline. But it's hard to get used to.

My last flight, we were in the runway and pointed directly ahead, and I was sure we were noticeably pointing to the right. I know and am sure I was wrong, but I'm trying to work out how if I pick a point inside the airplane I can use that to know I am flying straight.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but any tips are welcome, I get the feeling that this "calibration" is dependant on the distance I am looking towards. Tried to draw his is out geometrically to understand but am confused. It isn't helping.

Is this something that just comes with experience or is there a way to understand it quickly?
 
I find that most Cessna and Piper trainers have a row of rivets right in front of each seat. Except for Warriors, which have a long hinge.

The most important thing is to adjust your seat so it is the same EVERY TIME. I like 2 deg of cowling visible between nose and bottom of windscreen. That's two fingers' width at arms length.
 
Left knee is the centerline? I try to keep the center line running between my right shoulder and the passenger's left shoulder. It will come with time and seem really easy once you start picking a point on the cowl for your horizon when straight and level and another one for your steep turns.
 
It'll come with time, never used screws or rivets or any of that stuff. In most side by side planes you want your right nut on the centerline.
 
If you having trouble still finding center have your instructor let you taxi the plane around the airfield. During the taxi try to hit every centerline light/reflector with the nose wheel. As you do take note where the light/reflector disappears under the cowl. After a few minutes this should help you figure out where center is in relation to your viewpoint.

I also play a game with my students when parking the plane. The game is to get the nose gear perfectly centered over the T made by the typical parking lines.
 
Line yourself up on the left side of the stripe until you get used to it. There isn't that much off-set so it shouldn't be that significant for taxi, take-off and landing. The turns I can understand a little more and I think that just comes with time.
 
like others have mentioned, it takes some time but you'll eventually get it and won't really even have to think about it.
 
James331 said:
It'll come with time, never used screws or rivets or any of that stuff. In most side by side planes you want your right nut on the centerline.
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I'd give my left nut to be able to do that consistently.
 
And for females? Oh I think I know the answer. C'mon you knew it was coming. :rolleyes::D
 
For taxiing, just keep the center line between your knees. You would think that would have you off to the right of center, but it's pretty much dead center that way.
 
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James331 said:
In most side by side planes you want your right nut on the centerline.
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I was all over the place also during my PPL training. I was also taught centerline up the crotch. Never used a point on the plane for lateral alignment, always aimed for the line between your legs.

As far as in flight, the sight picture of the glare shield staying level on the horizon is what I watched for.

...and yes, it is something that will ultimately come with experience.
 
@LongRoadBob I know what you mean. I had instructors tell me to "remember the sight picture" and focus on this nut or this scratch and flare to it..etc.

I don't use any of those references. It sounds stupid and probably a little arrogant but I fly by "feel" when I go VFR for certain maneuvers and especially for landings.

On a landing, I know when the plane is in ground effect. It's a pretty pronounced feeling like you're sitting on a bubble. I know when I'm close to the runway and I know from practice about how much back-pressure to put on the plane to set it down nicely. All this "nose above the horizon", "look down the runway" crap I just ignore because it doesn't help me personally.

Forget about the window references. They don't work and they will change position depending on where you sit (left vs right seat). What won't change is the feel of the aircraft. Take slow flight for example. You can feel the controls getting mushy, hear the slowing of the air and yeah you can look at the VSI/airspeed, etc but who cares where the flippin' nose is in relation to a screw?

Also, if you fly in different planes, they won't have those screws, the nose will appear higher or lower in relation to the horizon in flare, etc. So all those little "tricks" don't help much.

Do a low approach or two and "feel" the ground effect, then pay attention for that on approach to let you know when you are close. The other stuff just takes practice. Even one of the questions on the CPL written emphasizes that a proper coordinated turn should "push" you into your seat.

Just my 2 cents..
 
No, its not a dumb question. I toiled with this as well. Its hard enough to tell when you're on the ground, then once airborne your whole longitudinal axis becomes arbitrary its even more so. I even tried squatting behind the plane before I get in to see what its pointing at, then compare to the sight I get from inside. I still have a hard time with it, putting in just the right amount of rudder to get lined up when there is a crosswind. I'll think I'm lined up straight and my cfi will say, you're off, more rudder. Would be nice if there was a paint scheme with lines perfectly aligned with 'forward'. I think those cessna cowl rivets people use make a bit of a trapezoid shape like /\ and if you line up the row in front of the left seat you'd be a bit nose left. upload_2016-6-6_13-38-38.png
 
Like they said, Pipers have a nice long hinge on the cowling which usually helps initially. Also, there are 5 (?) bolts on the front of the cowling (connecting the upper cowling to the nose bowl). When in a level turn, look which bolt is on the horizon and use it. :)
This should not be used forever. You WILL get the sight picture in your mind eventually and won't need crutches like these. It just takes time and getting used to. We weren't born with yoke in our hands. It took all of us some training to get good at it. So will you.

Good luck and GO FLY!!!!! (gorgeous day outside and I am stuck at work :( )
 
How is this any different from driving your car down the center of the lane?
 
RotorDude said:
How is this any different from driving your car down the center of the lane?
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As with a car, taxiing is much easier than lining up from a crab to a runway in the air. I'm on the ground a fraction of time that I'm in the air so you don't really have a ton of time relatively speaking to get that site picture burned in. Once in the air you don't have to care you lose all close reference points and you can just get aligned with the flight path using the turn coordinator if need be.
 
MAKG1 said:
Airplanes have MUCH smaller parallax corrections. Align it like a car and you'll be several feet left of where you intend, every time.
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exncsurfer said:
As with a car, taxiing is much easier than lining up from a crab to a runway in the air. I'm on the ground a fraction of time that I'm in the air so you don't really have a ton of time relatively speaking to get that site picture burned in. Once in the air you don't have to care you lose all close reference points and you can just get aligned with the flight path using the turn coordinator if need be.
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I fly planes, gliders, and helicopters, from the left, center, and right seat, respectively. After a small amount of time for perspective adjustment, you get used to your sight picture in the given vehicle. Same holds for cars, which I have driven both left and right steering wheel, so I see no significant difference between any of them.
If anything, the first time I drove a right steering wheel and needed to make a right turn at a busy intersection (this was in South Africa after a long overnight flight), my disorientation was greater than any of the other situations mentioned.
 
Thanks all. Some great tips, and I will be using them. I particularly like the idea mentioned about sighting the plane from behind, getting in and seeing how much it differs, definitely going to use that next flight before we start taxiing.

And good to know it isn't just me. It is definitely for me a difference in sighting an car. Though on the road you do see people that think they are in the middle of the lane hugging the left or right. As long as they are in the lane it doesn't matter so much, but I wonder how many drivers would actually be able to center on a line as planes do, and keep it there...a lane is different than a line.

I'm going over from the Aquila that I had been training on to a Piper PA 28. Will see how that looks.
 
For me.......the looking at a rivet, bolt, hinge, bug etc......didn't work. If I look at the nose of the airplane I will steer left-right-left-right trying to steer straight. I taxi like I drive, I look far ahead. Same with with turns, I don't look at the horizons point on the cowl, windscreen or whatever. I look out at the hoizon. Same with traffic pattern, I could never "get" where the runway sliced the wing and be consistent. I just glance at the runway as part of my traffic scan in the pattern.
 
JCranford said:
Best advice Ive heard all day!
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HAHAHA That's exactly what my CFI told me. " put the centerline under your right thigh, too far over and your nuts will be dragging, we don't like dragging nuts do we...? " LOL

As others have said, find the same seat position. I start with the seat in the lowest position and straight up and move the seat to where I can just see the nose below the glare shield. That gives me 3 fingers below the horizon and I am in level flight.

OK, off to my lesson!
 
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