Student Pilots

Aldeskeukin

Aldeskeukin

Filing Flight Plan
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It's her Mercedes.
I expect the answer to the following question is a resounding 'no' however, I read an article in the Canadian Av Regs that leads me to inquire if a student pilot (post-solo) can be signed off by an instructor to carry a passenger (in the US). (For the parsers: yes, we know you can be signed off for anything).

Thanks.
 
I don't have access to the Canadian regs.
But a student pilot in the US absolutely, no way no how, can be "signed off" to fly with passengers.
There is no such sign off for the USA.

Mark B
 
Being a CFI myself, despite this being illegal in the US, I would not risk my student, the aircraft or my livelihood endorsing that.

David
 
From the "CARs":

DIVISION III - STUDENT PILOT PERMITS

Privileges​
401.19 The holder of a student pilot permit may, for the sole purpose of the holder's flight training or flight test, act as pilot-in-command of any aircraft of the category to which the permit relates, where
(a) the flight is conducted in Canada under day VFR;
(b) in the case of flight training,
(i) it is conducted under the direction and supervision of the holder of a flight instructor rating for that category of aircraft, and
(ii) no passenger is carried on board;

EDIT: Though it appears that is not your question, your question was about the US.
 
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Thanks for the replies. The article I saw seemed to indicate a student pilot was cited for carrying a passenger without an endorsement. I'm looking for the article. Will post when relocated.
 
As has already been stated, in the US it's definitely a "no". I can't imagine Canada allowing it.

When I first started flying, I had an interesting conversation about the topic with my fiancee at the time, who wanted to go to New Mexico (while I was still a student pilot) and wanted to fly out there:

Her: "Can we fly to New Mexico next month?"
Me: "I can't see that happening"
Her: "Why not? Can't your instructor sign you off to solo there?"
Me: "Perhaps there is some remote possibility that I could legally be signed off for it, if I had everything planned out ahead of time, but that'd be a huge sign-off. I can't see anyone doing that, though. Even so, you'd have to get out there by some other means."
Her: "Why can't you take me? Can't you solo out there with me?"
Me: "SOLO. Alone. No-one else."
Her: "Oh! Right."
 
There is only one situation in which the FAR's permit a Student Pilot to carry a passenger, and that is the practical test for the certficate for which the SP is training, during which the examiner is considered a passenger (except when the SP is hooded, at which point the examiner becomes SIC as the required safety pilot, but not PIC other than by prior arrangement). See 61.47(b)/(c) and 91.109(b).
 
Ted DuPuis said:
As has already been stated, in the US it's definitely a "no". I can't imagine Canada allowing it.

When I first started flying, I had an interesting conversation about the topic with my fiancee at the time, who wanted to go to New Mexico (while I was still a student pilot) and wanted to fly out there:


Her: "Why can't you take me? Can't you solo out there with me?"
Me: "SOLO. Alone. No-one else."
Her: "Oh! Right."
Click to expand...

Is she blond by chance?:rofl:
 
Dean said:
Is she blond by chance?:rofl:
Click to expand...

Nope, she was brunette (and Latina), so she was about as not blonde as it got.

I, however, am blond. :)
 
That's OK, I still get asked by blondes and non-blondes if I've ever considered being a "commercial" pilot... :confused:
 
Everskyward said:
That's OK, I still get asked by blondes and non-blondes if I've ever considered being a "commercial" pilot... :confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I tell non-pilots I'm going for my Commercial Rating next, 9 times out of 10 I get the "Oh, so then you can fly like a 737?" response.

I now just tell them I'm going for my instructor rating. That seems to make more sense.
 
Aldeskeukin said:
I expect the answer to the following question is a resounding 'no' however, I read an article in the Canadian Av Regs that leads me to inquire if a student pilot (post-solo) can be signed off by an instructor to carry a passenger (in the US). (For the parsers: yes, we know you can be signed off for anything).

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The question doesn't state that the student and the passenger are the ONLY people on board, although I think that's what it's getting at. As long as the CFI or other qualified pilot is in the right seat and the pax is in the back I guess there's no need for a sign-off .

It looks like your Canadian regs:

>>
401.19 The holder of a student pilot permit may, for the sole purpose of the holder's flight training or flight test, act as pilot-in-command of any aircraft of the category to which the permit relates, where
(a) the flight is conducted in Canada under day VFR;
(b) in the case of flight training,
(i) it is conducted under the direction and supervision of the holder of a flight instructor rating for that category of aircraft, and
(ii) no passenger is carried on board;
<<

(b)(i) AND (b)(ii) don't allow flight training with a passenger at all, but I don't know if this reg is talking about solo or dual. Although PIC implies solo to me.

edit - it looks like (a) doesn't say you CAN'T take a passenger, but I think that section would fall under the 'flight test' part of the reg.
--

As usual - I'm no expert and am probably totally wrong on this. I'm sure somebody will let me know!
 
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Matthew said:
The question doesn't state that the student and the passenger are the ONLY people on board, although I think that's what it's getting at. As long as the CFI or other qualified pilot is in the right seat and the pax is in the back I guess there's no need for a sign-off .
Click to expand...
True, because in that case the CFI (or other qualified pilot) is the PIC, and is the one carrying the passenger, not the Student Pilot, who is pretty much just a passenger (Kortorax, et alia, not withstanding). I'll leave comment on the Canadian rules to Bob and Doug.
 
Matthew said:
It looks like your Canadian regs:

>>
401.19 The holder of a student pilot permit may, for the sole purpose of the holder's flight training or flight test, act as pilot-in-command of any aircraft of the category to which the permit relates, where
(a) the flight is conducted in Canada under day VFR;
(b) in the case of flight training,
(i) it is conducted under the direction and supervision of the holder of a flight instructor rating for that category of aircraft, and
(ii) no passenger is carried on board;
<<

(b)(i) AND (b)(ii) don't allow flight training with a passenger at all, but I don't know if this reg is talking about solo or dual. Although PIC implies solo to me.

edit - it looks like (a) doesn't say you CAN'T take a passenger, but I think that section would fall under the 'flight test' part of the reg.
--

As usual - I'm no expert and am probably totally wrong on this. I'm sure somebody will let me know!
Click to expand...

You're wrong:D.

The reg describes when a student pilot can be PIC. If a CFI is on board providing training (or just acting as PIC) there's no prohibition against passengers as the student won't be PIC, the CFI will.
 
lancefisher said:
You're wrong:D.

The reg describes when a student pilot can be PIC. If a CFI is on board providing training (or just acting as PIC) there's no prohibition against passengers as the student won't be PIC, the CFI will.
Click to expand...

That is true of any certificated pilot acting as PIC, not just a CFI, no?
 
alaskaflyer said:
That is true of any certificated pilot acting as PIC, not just a CFI, no?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I wouldn't turn the controls over to a student pilot during takeoff and landing without a CFI certificate if I were you. I also wouldn't fly in the right seat with a student in the left unless I had prior experience flying from that side with a CFI.
 
markb5900 said:
But a student pilot in the US absolutely, no way no how, can be "signed off" to fly with passengers.
There is no such sign off for the USA.
Click to expand...

A student pilot can absolutely be signed off to carry passengers.
:D

However, only by the DPE or FSDO examiner during a written and practical test, whereby the student pilot becomes a private pilot and is thus qualified to carry passengers. I know this isn't really the question at hand, but when has that stopped me?? :redface:

-Skip
 
Everskyward said:
That's OK, I still get asked by blondes and non-blondes if I've ever considered being a "commercial" pilot... :confused:
Click to expand...

I know the feeling. I very frequently get asked "when do you get to go to jet training to fly a real airplane like that [pointing at a CRJ]?", or "are you a real pilot or just the guy that sits there and watches...a co-pilot?", or "do you ever want to fly for a real airline?" I've even been asked if I aspire to be a commercial pilot, while I was flying the Beech. And that's not hyperbole, someone actually asked us that while we were flying. Same ****, different uniform. :dunno:
 
If only people understood that real airplanes have pistons and propellers... all you kerosene burners out there... yeah, fake planes. ;)
 
Skip Miller said:
A student pilot can absolutely be signed off to carry passengers.
:D

However, only by the DPE or FSDO examiner during a written and practical test,
Click to expand...
Now I get to say "you're wrong." Any CFI authorized to train Student Pilots can sign off a Student Pilot to fly as a Student Pilot with a passenger -- on an 8710-1 and logbook endorsement sending the SP for the practical test, during which the Student Pilot is still an Student Pilot, but is the PIC with a passenger (the examiner). Even a DPE or FSDO Inspector can't do that -- they can only turn the Student Pilot into a Sport/Rec/Private Pilot who is then authorized to fly with passengers but not as a Student Pilot.
 
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