Student Pilot Joyride turns deadly

We need to ban all airplanes, cars, trucks, knives, guns, pills, shovels, and outer space meteorites - anything that can cause serious injury or death. My God!! The children!
 
comanchepilot said:
We need to ban all airplanes, cars, trucks, knives, guns, pills, shovels, and outer space meteorites - anything that can cause serious injury or death. My God!! The children!
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Hahaha I don't think I'd get that crazy yet. The government will tax us all soon enough so we won't be able to have any of those anyways.

I do question how he was able to walk in and grab the keys to a twin he wasn't even rated for and just go. My club atleast has a keycard system where I have to swipe a card and can only grab the keys to planes I'm approved for...not that it would of made THAT much of a difference here.
 
gkaiser said:
Hahaha I don't think I'd get that crazy yet. The government will tax us all soon enough so we won't be able to have any of those anyways.

I do question how he was able to walk in and grab the keys to a twin he wasn't even rated for and just go. My club atleast has a keycard system where I have to swipe a card and can only grab the keys to planes I'm approved for...not that it would of made THAT much of a difference here.
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No keys needed.
 
Walker County sheriff's Chief Deputy James Painter said Wednesday authorities are still investigating but believe the three teenagers took off in the plane before it went down in a wooded area near Jasper, northwest of Birmingham.
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Do they think it took off AFTER it went down, or did they find another way to get into the air without taking off.

This sentence just seems like filler.
 
He was a student pilot..and it sounded like he crashed relatively close to the airport...I'm surprised by that...I figure as a student with atleast SOME knowledge he'd be able to get farther along then that..then again who knows what kind of hijinks him & his passengers were doing. CHECK OUT THIS DIVE DOOD!
 
gkaiser said:
He was a student pilot..and it sounded like he crashed relatively close to the airport...I'm surprised by that...I figure as a student with atleast SOME knowledge he'd be able to get farther along then that..then again who knows what kind of hijinks him & his passengers were doing. CHECK OUT THIS DIVE DOOD!
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The article said there were overcast skies and a low cloud ceiling. He probably got into IMC shortly after takeoff and lost control.
 
MassPilot said:
The article said there were overcast skies and a low cloud ceiling. He probably got into IMC shortly after takeoff and lost control.
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I'm sure that's exactly what happened. Granted i'm a student too and have had zero real imc time and minimal hood time...but if that happened I think I would just trust my instruments, climb, confess, comply. Don't let myself trust what my body says/feels...go off the instruments. But who knows, maybe he was trying to come back and land or just taking his friends up for a lap around the pattern.
 
Aztec Driver said:
No keys needed.
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My memory is foggy but were we not required as owners to have two locks on our aircraft?

Something about TSA, I seem to remember a thread on redboards.

In any case I bet this ends up going against the owner of the airplane if it were stolen from an unlocked hangar with no door locks or ignition key required.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
My memory is foggy but were we not required as owners to have two locks on our aircraft?

Something about TSA, I seem to remember a thread on redboards.

In any case I bet this ends up going against the owner of the airplane if it were stolen from an unlocked hangar with no door locks or ignition key required.
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The story says the kid had his own set of keys. I don't think there's any rule against letting somebody have a set of keys to your plane, whether they're legal to fly it or not.

Stupid kids...
 
gkaiser said:
I'm sure that's exactly what happened. Granted i'm a student too and have had zero real imc time and minimal hood time...but if that happened I think I would just trust my instruments, climb, confess, comply. Don't let myself trust what my body says/feels...go off the instruments. But who knows, maybe he was trying to come back and land or just taking his friends up for a lap around the pattern.
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Takes discipline that it would appear he didn't have.
 
dukeblue219 said:
The story says the kid had his own set of keys. I don't think there's any rule against letting somebody have a set of keys to your plane, whether they're legal to fly it or not.

Stupid kids...
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Why would you make a set of keys for a student? Especially for a twin he's never flown before?

Maybe the club/school just had the keys hanging on a rack I guess..no security whatsoever..and he just walked in and grabbed them...
 
The story is changing, not only did he have his own keys to the plane, but had flown the plane many times with permission of the owner.

He was one test away from his PPL. I would think he would know better.

I would think there is going to be a lot more to come out.

I feel sorry for the parents.

Doug
 
BTW, speakind of supposed student pilots, remember this crash a week ago when a guy in his 50s crashed a King Air? FAA said he was a student and the airport manager said he certainly was at least Private if not Commercial. Airport managers always are repositories of local info, but it may be suspect.
 
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Steve Foley said:
Do they think it took off AFTER it went down, or did they find another way to get into the air without taking off.

This sentence just seems like filler.
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And of course the two expert statements in paragraphs far apart:

"double engine airplane"

"airplane with two propellors"
 
douglas393 said:
The story is changing, not only did he have his own keys to the plane, but had flown the plane many times with permission of the owner.

He was one test away from his PPL. I would think he would know better.

I would think there is going to be a lot more to come out.

I feel sorry for the parents.

Doug
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Darwin at work.
 
zaitcev said:
BTW, speakind of supposed student pilots, remember this crash a week ago when a guy in his 50s crashed a King Air? FAA said he was a student and the airport manager said he certainly was at least Private if not Commercial. Airport managers always are repositories of local info, but it may be suspect.
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Why couldn't he be both? Private pilot and student working towards Type rating in a KA? Or Twin.
 
EppyGA said:
He didn't have to work too hard. ;)
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I do feel bad for the parents, no parent should ever have to live past their children.

and we all do dumb stuff sometimes. I probably pulled more than a few boners but got away with it. Same for my children. Its just that their is a race to grow up and mature before you kill yourself.

Someone asked why the requirement for 50 hrs xc before IR....I think this is the reason to give you a chance to survive before killing yourself.
 
I am real interested in knowing the real reasons for the crash. Is it just teenagers doubling their bravado when their friends are around and they want to show off? From the story that sounds like it because the night time condition sure doesn't sound like he should be flying.

Maybe I am not alone to think that 17 is too young to be having a PPL? The maturity level is not there for 99% of the 17 year olds. I know at 17 I wouldn't want myself with a PPL.
 
Rayden said:
I am real interested in knowing the real reasons for the crash. Is it just teenagers doubling their bravado when their friends are around and they want to show off? From the story that sounds like it because the night time condition sure doesn't sound like he should be flying.

Maybe I am not alone to think that 17 is too young to be having a PPL? The maturity level is not there for 99% of the 17 year olds. I know at 17 I wouldn't want myself with a PPL.
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I think it depends on the 17 year old. I think there are some 17 year olds that are definitely mature enough, and then again there are probably some 40 year olds who are not mature enough.
 
gkaiser said:
I'm sure that's exactly what happened. Granted i'm a student too and have had zero real imc time and minimal hood time...but if that happened I think I would just trust my instruments, climb, confess, comply. Don't let myself trust what my body says/feels...go off the instruments. But who knows, maybe he was trying to come back and land or just taking his friends up for a lap around the pattern.
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Probably not gonna be a lot of confessing going on if you're 17 years old and essentially stole an airplane...

Also, no keys needed on the Twinkie once you're in the door - Just turn on the four mag switches and push the starter switch to the side you want to crank (after priming and everything else, of course).

Other twins, such as the Baron (IIRC) and the TwinStar, use a key rotated right to start the right engine and left to start the left engine, but could probably be hand-propped if one knew how to do that and wanted to take the plane that badly.
 
Rayden said:
I am real interested in knowing the real reasons for the crash. Is it just teenagers doubling their bravado when their friends are around and they want to show off? From the story that sounds like it because the night time condition sure doesn't sound like he should be flying.

Maybe I am not alone to think that 17 is too young to be having a PPL? The maturity level is not there for 99% of the 17 year olds. I know at 17 I wouldn't want myself with a PPL.
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Oh geez. Just because you couldnt handle it there should be a law against it. Sad.
 
C'mon now ... never did I say a law against it, and I did suggest that 1% of 17 yr olds have maturity beyond their years more so than I do. It was just an opinion ... my opinion ... and you know what they say about opinions :rolleyes2:

ClimbnSink said:
Oh geez. Just because you couldnt handle it there should be a law against it. Sad.
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Rayden said:
Maybe I am not alone to think that 17 is too young to be having a PPL? The maturity level is not there for 99% of the 17 year olds. I know at 17 I wouldn't want myself with a PPL.
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It's a year or two after he could legally drive a car...no reason he couldn't operate an aircraft, and obviously had if he was that close to his license. Bad judgment can come at any age. Sad for his parents. Can't imagine losing a childe.
 
Agreed with all of your points. However, at 17 even driving a car is more likely to be less safe (ESPECIALLY if 2 other teenage friends come along for the ride) than a 40 year old, hence the insurance difference if you want to look at it from that perspective. Of course there will always be the immature 40 yr olds, but it's at a smaller % in all likelihood.

There seems to be quite a few adverse variables at play here for this crash, and I would be interested in following it up to learn from it. Very sad for the parents ... should never have to bury a child.

LDJones said:
It's a year or two after he could legally drive a car...no reason he couldn't operate an aircraft, and obviously had if he was that close to his license. Bad judgment can come at any age. Sad for his parents. Can't imagine losing a childe.
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Rayden said:
I am real interested in knowing the real reasons for the crash. Is it just teenagers doubling their bravado when their friends are around and they want to show off? From the story that sounds like it because the night time condition sure doesn't sound like he should be flying.

Maybe I am not alone to think that 17 is too young to be having a PPL? The maturity level is not there for 99% of the 17 year olds. I know at 17 I wouldn't want myself with a PPL.
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hell they are too damned foolish to drive. But you have to weight restricting all the people with control for the cause of a few idiots. There are some who will never be old enough so what do you do about them?
 
I got my PPL on my 17th birthday. Flying definitely made me old - maybe it's the fact that most of the folks I hang around with are a good bit older than I am, or it's that I almost cooked in a Cessna 210 (with pure dumb luck being the reason I didn't). Of course, every once in awhile I'll do something silly and I'll be reminded that as old as I feel sometimes, I am just a dumb teenager. Anyone who says they didn't do dumb things as a teenager was either in a coma, or a liar.

I never did do joyrides as a student pilot though, especially in a twin in bad weather. Hell, I'm legal to fly twins for hire and I still wouldn't be comfortable flying one without a CFI for a little while.


David White - 18 year old CP-ASEL/AMEL IA.
 
You are the example of that 1% I alluded to. From many of your posts you sound like having a good head on your shoulder.


DavidWhite said:
I got my PPL on my 17th birthday. Flying definitely made me old - maybe it's the fact that most of the folks I hang around with are a good bit older than I am, or it's that I almost cooked in a Cessna 210 (with pure dumb luck being the reason I didn't). Of course, every once in awhile I'll do something silly and I'll be reminded that as old as I feel sometimes, I am just a dumb teenager. Anyone who says they didn't do dumb things as a teenager was either in a coma, or a liar.

I never did do joyrides as a student pilot though, especially in a twin in bad weather. Hell, I'm legal to fly twins for hire and I still wouldn't be comfortable flying one without a CFI for a little while.


David White - 18 year old CP-ASEL/AMEL IA.
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As of right now we don't know if it is teenage bravado that is the main cause of it. FWIW it may be mechanical issues. From a general POV if I have a 17 yr old son that get a couple of his teenage friends to go do something that majority of 17 yr olds don't do, then as a parent my concern rightly goes up.

I am not advocating restrictions or laws, just some soul searching from a parent's POV ... (I have a 15 yr old step son and am sadden for those parents.)


Tony_Scarpelli said:
hell they are too damned foolish to drive. But you have to weight restricting all the people with control for the cause of a few idiots. There are some who will never be old enough so what do you do about them?
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DavidWhite said:
Hell, I'm legal to fly twins for hire and I still wouldn't be comfortable flying one without a CFI for a little while.
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You know, some started saying that you are making a mistake. What you really need is sim time, not CFI onboard, because of the prompt (!), correct, aggressive action required. The contention is that CFI cannot teach that safely even though they were dispensing this duty for a century. Worse, if he's only a little bit rusty, if you guys lose a second for control transfer, it's curtains for you two, and so he's the false safety that is worse than no safety. I'm not multi rated, but just FYI what they say. Still, looking at youtube videos of King Air flipping over (in Phillipines and Brasil), and simulated failures in FAA lectures adds credibility to that.
 
Very sad, regardless of the circumstances.
 
Rayden said:
Agreed with all of your points. However, at 17 even driving a car is more likely to be less safe (ESPECIALLY if 2 other teenage friends come along for the ride) than a 40 year old,
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Ah but you see this is where you are wrong. If a 40 year old with 6 months driving experience were driving and a car vs. a 17 year old with 6 months driving experience I would imagine very similar risk factors. However, 40 year olds generally have 20+ years of driving experience, you are not comparing things evenly.

The argument for the 17 year old is that the brain is more mold able and will pickup driving/flying quicker than the 40 year old. The argument for the 40 year old is that the 17 y/o's brain is not fully developed including the risk/reward area.

Age does not determine ability... skill/experience determines ability.

DavidWhite said:
I got my PPL on my 17th birthday. Flying definitely made me old - maybe it's the fact that most of the folks I hang around with are a good bit older than I am
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:yeahthat:

Austin Levin 17 year old PP-ASEL
Complex/High Performance/Tailwheel. ~190 hours.
 
You are not reading me correctly ... In General and in more likelihood, a 40 year old would be a little bit more risk adverse and more likely to make more mature decisions than a 17 yr old. I would agree that a 17 yr old is more likely to pick up and develop natural driving and flying skills faster/better.

Remember, us older folks have been 17 once and know the difference b/t 17 and 40 ;) A 17 yr old only know what a 17 yr old knows, for the most part ... unless you are 17 going on 35 :goofy:


Mtns2Skies said:
The argument for the 17 year old is that the brain is more mold able and will pickup driving/flying quicker than the 40 year old. The argument for the 40 year old is that the 17 y/o's brain is not fully developed including the risk/reward area.

Age does not determine ability... skill/experience determines ability.
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