Student pilot dies in crash... with sibling aboard

TangoWhiskey said:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28194843/detail.html

Hmmm. Says she was visiting from Scotland. Probably didn't fly here in the 152. How'd she rent a 152 stateside? Assuming she rented; maybe it was family owned? Sad.

I doubt Scotland's rules allow taking a passenger when you're a student pilot, either.
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My guess is she was taking flying lessons here, and decided to take her brother on her cross-country.
 
Another example where failure to follow the rules self-enforces.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Another example where failure to follow the rules self-enforces.
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It isn't at all clear that the crash had anything at all to do with the pilot's student qualifications. Could be they lost the engine over hostile terrain. That could happen to anyone.
 
steingar said:
It isn't at all clear that the crash had anything at all to do with the pilot's student qualifications. Could be they lost the engine over hostile terrain. That could happen to anyone.
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Don't want to speak for Jay, but I interpret that as there being a good reason for student pilots not being able to take passengers. Its called lack of skills and experience.

If they did lose an engine over hostil terrain as in your hypothetical scenario who would be better prepared to deal with it, a student pilot or an experienced certificated pilot?
 
Anthony said:
Don't want to speak for Jay, but I interpret that as there being a good reason for student pilots not being able to take passengers. Its called lack of skills and experience.

If they did lose an engine over hostil terrain as in your hypothetical scenario who would be better prepared to deal with it, a student pilot or an experienced certificated pilot?
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Often, the student pilot would be far better prepared, as they've learned the stuff we're all supposed to know more recently. I am not in any way advocating student pilots take passengers or do anything else they shouldn't do. It just ruffled my feathers to hear someone say that this crash is due to the fact that it was conducted by a student pilot, which I felt was strongly implicated.
 
I'm a student pilot and I would never, EVER even dream of taking a passenger. The first two reasons that pop in my mind are; two people could get killed instead of one AND a student pilot would be much more susceptible to distraction. Give me about a half hour and I could probably come up with about a hundred more reasons, not the least of which is because it's against the law.

I personally am not at all anxious to start carrying passengers even after I get my private until I've built a considerable number of hours. Maybe even enough to get beyond "The Killing Zone." I don't think I'll even be in a hurry to carry our little house dog.

My $0.02,
Doc
 
If you break the rule of carrying a passenger....... what other rules are you willing to break?

Question is how she got her brother in the plane. For all my x-countries, my CFI was there to sign me off. Im pretty sure he would have noticed an extra person walking around, getting into my plane. Small airport though.
 
It may have not been a student pilot, but a pilot that is a student...but that shouldn't stop unfounded speculation, I suppose.

Professor Ruth Farwell, Vice Chancellor of Buckinghamshire New University in High Wycombe, said: 'We have been informed that Carly Beattie, a second year student studying air transport with commercial pilot training, has been killed in an incident involving a small plane in Florida.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-aircraft-crash-Florida.html#ixzz1PB79qvcd
 
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As a new PP, I can tell you that I'm more at ease flying solo than I am with my family. There's more risk and that risk affects people's judgement differently.

If she'd been following the rules would there have been a different outcome? ABSOLUTELY. At minimum her brother would still be here! I mean no disprespect to the family's loss, but we should not condone the wanton disregard for FARs out of pity. She broke the rules, she paid with her life and her brother's.

OTOH, possibly there was something that occured during the flight, that she would have been able to handle by herself. (???) Or who knows, maybe they decided that it would be fun if Big Brother flew the plane for awhile....
 
Steve said:
It may have not been a student pilot, but a pilot that is a student...

Professor Ruth Farwell, Vice Chancellor of Buckinghamshire New University in High Wycombe, said: 'We have been informed that Carly Beattie, a second year student studying air transport with commercial pilot training, has been killed in an incident involving a small plane in Florida.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-aircraft-crash-Florida.html#ixzz1PB79qvcd
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I stand corrected....Carry on.
 
Steve said:
It may have not been a student pilot, but a pilot that is a student...but that shouldn't stop unfounded speculation, I suppose.

Professor Ruth Farwell, Vice Chancellor of Buckinghamshire New University in High Wycombe, said: 'We have been informed that Carly Beattie, a second year student studying air transport with commercial pilot training, has been killed in an incident involving a small plane in Florida.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-aircraft-crash-Florida.html#ixzz1PB79qvcd
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Good point! Not like the media understands our lingo. That's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
 
From one of the Babes and Airplanes members, an instructor; posted on Saturday.

Hi Babes

I had a horrendous day yesterday at the flight school. One of
our time builders from the UK crashed on Thursday in a
swampy part of Florida, Blue Cypress Lake area, and she
and her brother died when the Cessna 152 decended rapidly.
The radar showed a southern heading, then. 180 to the north,
another 180 to the south, a turn to the west, and then the
rapid descent, at 11am on Thursday. The wreckage was
found at 2:45 am on Friday. Her parents and brother had
arrived from Scotland on Monday as Carly was finishing up
her hours of time building. We have 7-8 students from the UK
here at any given time. I was unaware of the tragedy until I
arrived at work fri am at 6:30. Of course the media plagued
the school and students all day. We have about 80-90
students from all over. I left to go to the hotel where the UK
students were staying to console them at 2pm. I took them to
Chili's along with one of the CFIs because they had not eaten
all day, while one of the students stayed with the parents.
Afterwards, we held a memorial service at the end of the
runway, near the edge of the river. A curious manatee played
nearby as we tossed carnations into the water and prayed for
the two. The students took turns taking about Carly. The grief-
stricken parents appreciated everything we did, though
nothing seemed like enough. Thank you Moxie for your texts
as I struggled through my day.

Gypsy
******************************************************

HR
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
Good point! Not like the media understands our lingo. That's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
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Yeah, the media doesn't understand the difference between a stall and an engine quitting. They very rarely get that one right.

This now makes sense that a pilot who happened to be a student would be carrying a passenger.

Doc
 
Nothing like a fair hanging before the trial is even done :eek: .

This place is at times as bad as the red board.
 
TripleZ said:
If you break the rule of carrying a passenger....... what other rules are you willing to break?

Question is how she got her brother in the plane. For all my x-countries, my CFI was there to sign me off. Im pretty sure he would have noticed an extra person walking around, getting into my plane. Small airport though.
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If you are willing to speed perhaps you are a puppy killer too? I know what you are trying to say, but the slippery slope is not always slippery. People CAN chose to break one rule but not other, or any other, for that fact.
 
In Australia, after you have passed your GFPT, you can take passengers into the designated training zone or within 50nm to another airfield, so long as you take a flight check with your instructor every 3 months (to take pax) or every 6 hours of flight time.

General Flying Proficiency Test. You also have had to pass your BAK exam (basic aeronautical knowledge) and then passed your GFPT checkride. (for me it was around 25 hours into training with 1 NAV completed and 2 or 3 training area solos completed.

One big but.... I couldn't use that GFPT endorsement/rating to fly anywhere else in the world.
 
weilke said:
Nothing like a fair hanging before the trial is even done :eek: .

This place is at times as bad as the red board.
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Sounds to me like we're defending the "student", not hanging her. Despite what the media reported, it's likely that she wasn't a "student pilot", but rather a "certificated pilot who is a student".
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Sounds to me like we're defending the "student", not hanging her. Despite what the media reported, it's likely that she wasn't a "student pilot", but rather a "certificated pilot who is a student".
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.....or a private pilot who is a student when it comes to instrument or commercial training.
 
Lots of unanswered questions here.

I wouldn't venture a guess at this point, but it's way too early to wag fingers and assess blame. Just a damn shame is the only certainty here.
 
DutchessFlier said:
Hey Skyhawk Captain:

A bit harsh there don't you think?

There but for the grace of god go thee....
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We try not to call each other out or get personal on this forum. If you kept reading, you'd see several posts later where he realized his potential error, and called himself out on it.
 
The lesson here is not to have too much faith in the media. Aviation is not the only area they do not understand well.
 
Gary F said:
The lesson here is not to have too much faith in the media. Aviation is not the only area they do not understand well.
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Really, I thought having a Journalism degree made you an expert in everything?

;)
 
Anthony said:
Really, I thought having a Journalism degree made you an expert in everything?

;)
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Yup, just like owning a Grumman makes someone the best pilot in the world. :D
 
Gary F said:
The lesson here is not to have too much faith in the media. Aviation is not the only area they do not understand well.
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I'm having deja vu.

Seems like journalism is a lost art. Just give us the 5 Ws for kripes sake! :mad2:
 
Bravo3 said:
I'm having deja vu.

Seems like journalism is a lost art. Just give us the 5 Ws for kripes sake! :mad2:
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CNN used to do that on Headline News. No commentary (except for the cutesy or sports stuff) at all. Just perfect hair and teeth reading off a sheet. "Competition" (read: commentary) arrived and they started down the path themselves. Nowadays, like their competitors, it's 23 hours of commentary with news accidentally left in.
 
I doubt the media has ever been terribly accurate with highly technical matters. The smart ones don't go to Journalism school, they become doctors and engineers. With the more modern trend of never ending political commentary, I doubt it has improved any.
 
JesseD said:
Nowadays <snip> it's 23 hours of commentary with news accidentally left in.
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That's a great quote, hope you don't mind if I steal it! (because I plan to :wink2:)

bravo3 said:
Seems like journalism is a lost art. Just give us the 5 Ws for kripes sake!
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Don't forget the "H" (for kripes sake!)
 
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MBDiagMan said:
I'm a student pilot and I would never, EVER even dream of taking a passenger. The first two reasons that pop in my mind are; two people could get killed instead of one AND a student pilot would be much more susceptible to distraction. Give me about a half hour and I could probably come up with about a hundred more reasons, not the least of which is because it's against the law.

I personally am not at all anxious to start carrying passengers even after I get my private until I've built a considerable number of hours. Maybe even enough to get beyond "The Killing Zone." I don't think I'll even be in a hurry to carry our little house dog.

My $0.02,
Doc
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Me too. At first I was excited for passengers but now the more I think about it I don't know if I will be ready. Though there are people like my Dad who was a pilot long ago in the air force who I wouldn't mind taking up right away.
 
JesseD said:
CNN used to do that on Headline News. No commentary (except for the cutesy or sports stuff) at all. Just perfect hair and teeth reading off a sheet. "Competition" (read: commentary) arrived and they started down the path themselves. Nowadays, like their competitors, it's 23 hours of commentary with news accidentally left in.
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So many news channels yet...how long I have to wait to actually get the news in the midst of the commentary is ridiculous!

Years ago there was only the 1/2 hour long news like 3 or 4 times a day so there was very little time for commentary so they stuck more with the news facts...little time to dream up stupid questions that obviously have no immediate answers so a waste of time to even ask...and you don't need a degree to use your brain and know the answer is nowhere to be found at that point so why waste airtime and bother asking it?
 
She was legal to have him with her. Perhaps working on an instrument rating and building xc hours. Sad.

DOI:5/2/2011Certificate:PRIVATE PILOT (FOREIGN BASED)
Rating(s):PRIVATE PILOT (Foreign Based)
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND


Limits

ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
ISSUED ON BASIS OF AND VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY UNITED KINGDOM PILOT LICENSE NUMBER(S) <redacted> ALL LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS ON THE UNITED KINGDOM PILOT LICENSE APPLY.
 
Anthony said:
Really, I thought having a Journalism degree made you an expert in everything?

;)
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In their minds, that is true. There's very little truth in the news these days. It's all about ratings which really translates to money. As was said elsewhere on this board, when the bureaucracy increases to the point it reaches critical mass, then it isn't about the original purpose any more; it IS about sustaining that bureaucracy.
The news outlets would be better off trimming their budgets, spending more time fact checking, and reporting the news straight and without emotion. Actually, we'd be better off.
If you want an accurate view of an event, you need to witness it in person. Even then, your "eyewitness" report will vary considerably from the guy standing next to you.
 
silver-eagle said:
In their minds, that is true. There's very little truth in the news these days. It's all about ratings which really translates to money. As was said elsewhere on this board, when the bureaucracy increases to the point it reaches critical mass, then it isn't about the original purpose any more; it IS about sustaining that bureaucracy.
The news outlets would be better off trimming their budgets, spending more time fact checking, and reporting the news straight and without emotion. Actually, we'd be better off.
If you want an accurate view of an event, you need to witness it in person. Even then, your "eyewitness" report will vary considerably from the guy standing next to you.
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I think a huge shift (I won't use paradigm as I hate buzzwoards) has occurred in the media, and we are witnessing the death of traditional, major "news" outlets which have just become ratings (money) driven infotainment. Many people are getting their news form other sources, as most of the newspapers and networks are dwindling in popularity, and status.

News has always been unreliable, from the day people found they could make money from reporting it, and obtain power from manipulating it.
 
I have the opposite view about news. I would rather not just get the headlines but also like the story behind it. But I like information delivered in a dispassionate way, which is the problem I have with many news channels. Actually I like PBS the most.
 
By the description, it sounds like she was doing clearing turns. I wonder if she was doing something silly like, "Here bro, check out this spin..." and wasn't high enough or balanced enough to recover in time. :/
 
Everskyward said:
I have the opposite view about news. I would rather not just get the headlines but also like the story behind it. But I like information delivered in a dispassionate way, which is the problem I have with many news channels. Actually I like PBS the most.
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I too enjoy the more in depth coverage, on site stories and expanded interviews NPR radio provides.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
I may have missed it, but has anyone figured out if she was a student pilot or a pilot that was a student?
 
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