Student Pilot Cross Countries

I wouldn't think there would be much opportunity to use an autopilot during a checkride. Maneuvers come by FAST, and you really don't spend much time doing the same thing for long enough for the autopilot to make a difference.

Even if it is installed.

And it's a good bet that that GPS is going Tango Uniform, but probably not before you use it for something.
 
MAKG1 said:
I wouldn't think there would be much opportunity to use an autopilot during a checkride. Maneuvers come by FAST, and you really don't spend much time doing the same thing for long enough for the autopilot to make a difference.

Even if it is installed.

And it's a good bet that that GPS is going Tango Uniform, but probably not before you use it for something.
Click to expand...

It's an extremely good bet that the GPS is going to be dead...mine was broken when I got in the plane. But then magically, once I didn't need it anymore (after my DPE magically got suddenly green in the face and needed to get on the ground (read: diversion)) it started working again. Go figure.

And I really don't see the need for an autopilot on the checkride, even if the DPE doesn't break it. You want to show him that you can FLY the airplane anyway.
 
MAKG1 said:
I wouldn't think there would be much opportunity to use an autopilot during a checkride. Maneuvers come by FAST, and you really don't spend much time doing the same thing for long enough for the autopilot to make a difference.
Click to expand...
I'd think that you'd have time to use it on the XC nav portion, and it would be real good headwork to do so on the diversion when you have to replan your course to the divert point, and then figure time and fuel to get there. Another time when it would be wise to use it would be when spinning the winds based on actual heading and GS. OTOH, it won't be much help for stalls/slow flight, ground reference maneuvers, or takeoffs/landings.
 
This is an area where my last instructor gave me a break. I did quite alot of my Private 20 years ago and life caught up with me. When I took it up again last year, after I FINALLY solo'd we had already done a VERY short cross country to the avionics shop, and another to a nearby fly in breakfast spot, but that's all the XC work he had done with me.

When I started planning my Long XC, he said if I was totally confident, then I could just plan it and he would go over it and sign me off. I did a trip that was significantly beyond minimum requirements and it couldn't have worked out better. This saved me from going through a bunch of XC flying with him before doing the long one on my own. He must have had a good instinct about it, because it all ended up going really well.

I finished that Long XC by about 11AM on a Friday morning and went home and took a nap. I then met him at the airport at Sundown and we knocked out my night XC. After that it was nothing but sharpening up for the checkride. Getting all the XC requirements out of the way is a big milestone in a student pilots process.
 
More than that, as a cross-country PIC, you're being a real pilot for the first time, certificates notwithstanding. That is, you're going someplace.

It's normal to be a bit apprehensive, but it helps tremendously to have multiple forms of navigation. Pilotage almost always works (but it can fail if you're flying above clouds -- not legal for a student pilot, but it is for a VFR private pilot). Ded reckoning works as well as forecasts and the ability to hold speed and heading allow. I'd suggest planning a backup method -- VOR navigation or a GPS track, or both if available.

I'd suggest using whatever your weakest navigation skill is as primary. I think for most student pilots, that's ded reckoning. If that fails, or even just as a cross-check, use your second-weakest. Maybe VOR nav (either dual VOR or VOR/DME).

The GPS is a bit too easy. I'd avoid that unless I was lost.

Even if you do get lost, getting un-lost is a really good exercise (I did this on my first dual cross-country, by locating minor landmarks on the chart).
 
My DPE had me demonstrate use of NRST and D> functions. I didn't learn much more about GPS usage until fairly recently, although I knew they were capable of more, just hadn't invested the time in learning one model only to change to another. Now I'm flying behind a KLN-94, so I can focus on proficiency with that.

Matt-If in doubt about finding the airport, remember the 4C's- Climb, Conserve, Confess, Comply.
 
MAKG1 said:
I did the same thing. I had to burn 3.1 hours solo cross country time. So, I went to Merced and Fresno. Fresno is far from anywhere.
?
Click to expand...


where did you started from to Fresno? there are pretty much nothing much going on besides following the highway from merced to FAT
 
azure said:
I think it's too bad that a lot of CFIs are so afraid of getting busted for something their students do that they don't allow them the experience of finding their way to an unfamiliar airport. In these days where controllers are expected to file paperwork whenever something unexpected happens I can understand it, but it really doesn't work to the student's benefit at all. My first CFI had been nearly burned by a student who got lost and ended up busting the DTW surface area so I understood, and didn't hold it against him, especially considering that otherwise he was really excellent. But I didn't regret leaving him, for other reasons (marginally airworthy aircraft was all he had access to at the flight school he was at at the time), and by the time I finished up I had done a few solo XCs, every one of them to at least one field I had never been to before. Since then I've never been afraid of visiting new airports and I think that getting that experience as a student pilot is invaluable, and instructors who force their students to do all their solo XCs first as dual are protecting themselves at their students' expense.
Click to expand...



I have never landed at any other airport before i go dual XC with my first CFI, and guess what, I have never used CTAF until my first XC, and everytime I visit a new airport, I under estimated the descent time to pattern altitude and have to do a left or right 360 and had to go around on the landings, all because I was not familiar with another new airport as a student pilot and got too used to the same airport. I have only visited 3 airports during my whole private pilot training with that instructor, which i would say, it sucks.
 
scarybus320 said:
where did you started from to Fresno? there are pretty much nothing much going on besides following the highway from merced to FAT
Click to expand...

I went to FCH, not FAT, but yes, following 99 was a really simple way to get there. Note that MER is NOT on 99, but it's not hard to find it. 99 is also the boundary for the FAT Class C surface area, really important on climb-out until contact with ATC is established (FCH is nontowered).

I started from Palo Alto. Outbound over Livermore Valley, inbound over San Luis Reservoir and Gilroy. I tried to mix up all the nav methods at my disposal. VOR nav to find MER, I Follow Roads to FCH, then ded reckoning home. I had to do a bit of replanning when I discovered that the DME only worked within 15 miles of the station (not hard, great learning experience measuring cross-radials on a sectional while airborne).
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
I really believe that solo flying and especially solo XC are the most important things you do as a Student Pilot. It really builds both confidence and proficiency in the things you will probably do most as a pilot. I'm still beaked over the FAA's decision to cut the solo and solo XC requirements in half 15 years ago, and I think we'd see a lot fewer problems if the FAA kicked the solo requirements back up to the old 20 solo/10 solo XC.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with that.
 
I'd add that 50nm isn't often enough to change the weather system you're flying in. One of the big "scary" things to many low time pilots is reading the weather chart on that first 300-500 nm or more X-C. And maybe in some weather conditions, rightly so.

How many threads here start with "treat it like a whole bunch of little cross-countries"...

I think flying with others on longer trips early on in the logbook helps a whole lot to see how they're managing changing weather far from "known" airports... Maybe a diversion into an unfamiliar one... How to choose a good airport to divert to, or is this changing too fast and we need to use the closest possible runway with a reasonable length and land NOW... Etc.

Nothing in the Private PTS really forces that length of X-C. Some folks get it... Some folks just get their "long X-C" requirement ticked off the checklist on a perfect day, and then they're cut loose with the ability to go coast-to-coast the next day after the checkride.
 
scarybus320 said:
I have never landed at any other airport before i go dual XC with my first CFI, and guess what, I have never used CTAF until my first XC, and everytime I visit a new airport, I under estimated the descent time to pattern altitude and have to do a left or right 360 and had to go around on the landings, all because I was not familiar with another new airport as a student pilot and got too used to the same airport. I have only visited 3 airports during my whole private pilot training with that instructor, which i would say, it sucks.
Click to expand...
I would have to agree. I try to get my primary trainees around other airports in the local area even before solo. I'll take them up to the grass runways at Laurel or Bennett for real soft field field work, and over to Ocean City so they know a good paved airport only a few miles away in cases something bad happens at Salisbury and closes the airport while they're up, and they need somewhere else to land. There's just no substitute for experience.
 
Jaybird180 said:
My DPE had me demonstrate use of NRST and D> functions. I didn't learn much more about GPS usage until fairly recently, although I knew they were capable of more, just hadn't invested the time in learning one model only to change to another. Now I'm flying behind a KLN-94, so I can focus on proficiency with that.

Matt-If in doubt about finding the airport, remember the 4C's- Climb, Conserve, Confess, Comply.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I was just reading this on the AOPA website. I have been flying this route on flight sim x. I am sure the real thing is going to be MUCH different in comparison. But it at least gives me practice with observing the sectional to scan for landmarks. Also, I have been using Google maps to find what some of these landmarks look like. Also, it allows me to see the VORs around, and practice flying to the airport using the VOR.

I am confident I will be fine, but once under the pressure of doing this on my own things may change.
 
denverpilot said:
I'd add that 50nm isn't often enough to change the weather system you're flying in. One of the big "scary" things to many low time pilots is reading the weather chart on that first 300-500 nm or more X-C. And maybe in some weather conditions, rightly so.
Click to expand...

Maybe not for the weather system to change. But with significant terrain (or bodies of water), the weather itself can change drastically in 50 miles. It can be severe clear on one side of the mountains and IMC on the other.

I once did a short cross-country to MRY in perfect conditions. Except when I got there, MRY was obscured by the marine layer. ATIS said scattered at 2500. It was wrong. Descending through 2000, I could just see the runway threshold poking out from under the clouds.

MRY was the only airport with this problem in the region. SNS was in the clear, just a few miles away, so a quick diversion ensued for this VFR pilot.
 
MAKG1 said:
Maybe not for the weather system to change. But with significant terrain (or bodies of water), the weather itself can change drastically in 50 miles. It can be severe clear on one side of the mountains and IMC on the other.

I once did a short cross-country to MRY in perfect conditions. Except when I got there, MRY was obscured by the marine layer. ATIS said scattered at 2500. It was wrong. Descending through 2000, I could just see the runway threshold poking out from under the clouds.

MRY was the only airport with this problem in the region. SNS was in the clear, just a few miles away, so a quick diversion ensued for this VFR pilot.
Click to expand...

I'm still sticking with my comment. Marine layer is a locally known phenomenon. You hear local pilots talk about it during time at the airport.

To get comfortable traveling longer distances you gotta get out further into new weather systems in the same flight, and I'll add... Fly into "well known" weather phenomena in other places that you don't hear about from local pilots.

Places like PoA are good to find out about them, though. "I'm flying to X, any pointers?"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top