Student Pilot Certificate Confusion

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wickedsprint

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Wickedsprint
I have a PPL fixed wing license. I am looking to take helicopter flight training in the near future.

Was not sure if I needed student pilot privileges on my medical.

Called FAA. They sent me a new copy that reflects student pilot. Said their copy showed the privileges.

Do I need this and endorsement to solo NEW aircraft that I am not yet licensed for? Is that the whole point?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Yes you will need the student pilot endorsed for the helicopter before you fly solo.
 
So if one wants to add a new rating every two years in lieu of a BFR will they need a new student pilot medical every time? Student pilot is only good for 24 months.
 
wickedsprint said:
So if one wants to add a new rating every two years in lieu of a BFR will they need a new student pilot medical every time? Student pilot is only good for 24 months.
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The FSDO can issue you a Student Pilot Certificate independent of your medical.
 
The student pilot certificate does not have to be combined with the medical.

Contact your local FSDO.
 
No, you cannot get another pilot certificate. You are a PP ASEL, any other category solo requires the logbook endorsement in 61.31(d).
 
I can't believe the FSdO screwed this up. Well, yes I can.

You already hold an airplane private pilot rating. You cannot have two pilot certificates.
You are not a "student pilot" with a new "training certificate" just for helicopters.

The flight school does not know the rules, the FSDO does not know the rules.
You will simply get an instructors endorsement for 61.31(d)(2) to fly solo and act as PIC while in the training program.

Do some more research, then call, better yet, go to FSDO and get it resolved for your FAA records. Need to make sure the helo CFI gets training also.

We deal with this all the time with rated airplane pilots working on their glider "additional rating".
 
BillTIZ said:
I can't believe the FSdO screwed this up. Well, yes I can.

You already hold an airplane private pilot rating. You cannot have two pilot certificates.
You are not a "student pilot" with a new "training certificate" just for helicopters.

The flight school does not know the rules, the FSDO does not know the rules.
You will simply get an instructors endorsement for 61.31(d)(2) to fly solo and act as PIC while in the training program.

Do some more research, then call, better yet, go to FSDO and get it resolved for your FAA records. Need to make sure the helo CFI gets training also.

We deal with this all the time with rated airplane pilots working on their glider "additional rating".
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This agrees with what a CFI told me this afternoon. The FAA still sent me another medical with "student pilot privileges" on the back so I guess that doesn't apply ever again?

So the FAA gave me the wrong medical?

I now have a fresh 3rd class re-issued by their Doc with student pilot privileges on the back and "passenger carrying prohibited".

Yeehaw.

I simply want to keep the flight school and myself out of trouble.
 
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Ok, so you now have a private pilot airplane certificate and a "student" 3rd class medical that says you can't carry pax. I guess all you airplane flying will be solo or with a CFI from now on.

Did you have a current medical before? You must have, but now you cannot carry pax in an airplane.

Keeping yourself and the school out of trouble? Your current airplane rating certificate and a class 3 medical with no pax limitations is all that is needed.

Your school obviously does not know how 61.31(d)(2) works.
They and you have just created more problems.
 
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I appreciate your feedback.

Yes, I had a current medical that was up for renewal. I got it renewed this summer. Normal 3rd class.

Two weeks ago I called FAA asking whether I needed a student pilot cert to go train in helicopters. They said I ALREADY had it and sent me a duplicate. :lol: wtf?

That's where I am today.

I NEVER asked for a student pilot medical during my renewal but apparently got one anyway.

I'm going to send you a PM
 
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BillTIZ said:
Ok, so you now have a private pilot airplane certificate and a "student" 3rd class medical that says you can't carry pax. I guess all you airplane flying will be solo or with a CFI from now on.

Did you have a current medical before? You must have, but now you cannot carry pax in an airplane.

Keeping yourself and the school out of trouble? Your current airplane rating certificate and a class 3 medical with no pax limitations is all that is needed.

Your school obviously does not know how 61.31(d)(2) works.
They and you have just created more problems.
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Huh??? Sarcasm intended???:confused:

Just because he has a "Student Certificate" doesn't mean he's lost his PP privileges. If that were true, all pilots would have to get a new medical immediately after their checkride. :no:
 
wickedsprint said:
So the FAA gave me the wrong medical?

I now have a fresh 3rd class re-issued by their Doc with student pilot privileges on the back and "passenger carrying prohibited".
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I am confused. As far as I know, the FAA cannot issue a medical. An AME can issue the medical. (I suppose an FAA Doc can, but I don't think that is the case.)

What I suspect is that the FAA issued a Student Pilot Certificate, which is separate from the medical. The Student Pilot Certificate typically issued by the AME is on the same piece of paper as the Medical Certificate, but they are in reality two separate things.

I simply want to keep the flight school and myself out of trouble.
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Don't worry too much about the flight school. Just keep yourself out of trouble. And as far as I can tell from reading your posts, you don't have a problem.
 
Apache123 said:
I think all he'll need is a 61.31(d) endorsement. It's how I flew my twin as a PP-ASEL.
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That is correct. You do not, and legally cannot, get a FAA Student Pilot certificate while you hold any other FAA pilot certificate, and the one combined with your medical became invalid the instant the DPE issued your Temporary Airman Certificate when you passed your first practical test. BTW, the exact regulatory citation is 61.31(d)(2).
 
wickedsprint said:
I appreciate your feedback.

Yes, I had a current medical that was up for renewal. I got it renewed this summer. Normal 3rd class.

Two weeks ago I called FAA asking whether I needed a student pilot cert to go train in helicopters. They said I ALREADY had it and sent me a duplicate. :lol: wtf?
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Combination of you asking the wrong question (or at least, not providing full information, i.e., that you already held a PP-ASEL) and them boggling the job (yes, it happens). If you hold a PP-ASEL and want to train in another category or class, you do not need (and cannot legally obtain) a Student Pilot certificate to solo that other cat/class aircraft. When you're ready to solo in it, your instructor makes a 61.31(d)(2) endorsement in your logbook, and that's that. The reason this doesn't come up that much is that there are no solo requirements for an additional Airplane class rating, and adding AMEL to ASEL is probably the most common additional aircraft rating, followed by adding ASES to ASEL.
 
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Long and short, you have a situation that through the FAAs own error left you with too much documentation which runs across a minor snafu in rules protocol. Since the documentation shows that you have and are meeting the intended obligations and this was a clerical type error rather than some intended obfuscation of the rules, the likelihood of anybody getting in actual trouble over this lies in an area statistically insignificant north of none.
 
Henning said:
Long and short, you have a situation that through the FAAs own error left you with too much documentation which runs across a minor snafu in rules protocol. Since the documentation shows that you have and are meeting the intended obligations and this was a clerical type error rather than some intended obfuscation of the rules, the likelihood of anybody getting in actual trouble over this lies in an area statistically insignificant north of none.
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Actually, the person who issued the Student Pilot certificate to someone who already held a PP could "get in trouble," at least to the extent of being retrained on that issue. Best bet for the person holding that extra ticket would be to take it back to the FSDO and return it with explanation, then get the proper 61.31(d)(2) logbook endorsement from his/her instructor to solo that other cat/class aircraft.
 
You are NOT a STUDENT PILOT. You're a fixed wing pilot transitioning. Ay yi yi. Facepalm.
 
wickedsprint said:
So if one wants to add a new rating every two years in lieu of a BFR will they need a new student pilot medical every time? Student pilot is only good for 24 months.
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Worth pointing out also that this is not true either. Certainly a new rating (i.e. instrument or multi) or new endorsement (i.e. high performance) does not require you to do anything with your existing certificate. You are not a "student pilot" just because you're training for something additional.

The helicopter training is, obviously, a bit different and somewhat less common because it's a different category altogether. But, it sounds like there's some good info on this thread already if you can pick out the good stuff and then look it up for confirmation.
 
This has been very helpful guys, I definitely appreciate it.
 
Ron Levy said:
Actually, the person who issued the Student Pilot certificate to someone who already held a PP could "get in trouble," at least to the extent of being retrained on that issue. Best bet for the person holding that extra ticket would be to take it back to the FSDO and return it with explanation, then get the proper 61.31(d)(2) logbook endorsement from his/her instructor to solo that other cat/class aircraft.
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Probably would be best, although I'm always hesitant to tell a bureaucrat they made a mistake.
 
BillTIZ has run into this a bunch of times, as we do in our glider club. It does get confusing when we have PP folks adding on a rating and just need the endorsement, and then we have non-rated students who DO need a student certificate but no medical. Our local DPE handles the paperwork for that.

But just trying to explain the differences to someone always seems to end up with something lost in the translation.
 
Henning said:
Probably would be best, although I'm always hesitant to tell a bureaucrat they made a mistake.
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I've never had any problem talking with an FAA Inspector about what appears to me to be an error as long as I'm polite about it. All the ones I've ever worked with have had a good sense of humor and seem to appreciate it when someone cares enough to ask them for guidance first rather than just doing something which might be wrong.
 
Without wanting to high jack the OP thread,just reading one of the above posts regarding a student cert becoming invalid once you obtain PP cert, may I ask the advice of the more experienced pilots here...

I passed my PP check ride in October, my next class 3 medical is due June 2013, so my question is, as the Student certificate/medical cert. is combined and the student cert became invalid once the DPE issued my Temp. Airmans Cert, what is the status of my class 3 medical, do I continue to keep the student cert/medical cert. until renewal is due or should I be getting a new medical done right away?

Thank you.
 
alland said:
I passed my PP check ride in October, my next class 3 medical is due June 2013, so my question is, as the Student certificate/medical cert. is combined and the student cert became invalid once the DPE issued my Temp. Airmans Cert, what is the status of my class 3 medical, do I continue to keep the student cert/medical cert. until renewal is due or should I be getting a new medical done right away?
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The fact that both the Student Pilot and Medical Certificates are printed on the same piece of paper does not mean they are joined legally. Your Student Pilot certificate is no longer valid because your PP certificate was issued, but your Medical certificate remains in effect until its expiration per 61.23.
 
Thank you for your reply Ron, excuse my ignorance I'm still very much a novice and learning as I come across stuff I don't clearly understand.
 
I'm a Private Pilot in Gliders and ran into this question on my transition to ASEL. No issues getting a regular 3rd class medical prior to solo. Endorsement under 61.31(d)(2) and tailwheel and I was good to go!
 
Walter233 said:
I'm a Private Pilot in Gliders and ran into this question on my transition to ASEL. No issues getting a regular 3rd class medical prior to solo. Endorsement under 61.31(d)(2) and tailwheel and I was good to go!
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That's the way it's supposed to work!

I've had to coach (train) local airplane CFIs when our glider trained and private rated pilots go to get an airplane rating. This happens a lot when you get 16 yr old glider pilots moving to airplane.
 
I just got off the phone with my FSDO. They were asking me about my checride and DPE. Since I'm a sport pilot, but am planning tp upgrade to private in the spring, I was told that since I already have a pilot certificate, all I will need is the medical, and I won't be issued another student certificate.
 
wickedsprint said:
This agrees with what a CFI told me this afternoon. The FAA still sent me another medical with "student pilot privileges" on the back so I guess that doesn't apply ever again?

So the FAA gave me the wrong medical?

I now have a fresh 3rd class re-issued by their Doc with student pilot privileges on the back and "passenger carrying prohibited".

Yeehaw.

I simply want to keep the flight school and myself out of trouble.
Click to expand...

Make sure the name on both are exactly the same. It is possible that they could have issued a copy for a different name (again not sure why the FAA would issue a medical).
 
JB1842 said:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO. They were asking me about my checride and DPE. Since I'm a sport pilot, but am planning tp upgrade to private in the spring, I was told that since I already have a pilot certificate, all I will need is the medical, and I won't be issued another student certificate.
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Correct!
 
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