Student Medical Question

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This question is for the docs on the board, but I thought other CFIs might benefit from it.

I recently started teaching a new student, the first student I'm starting from lesson 1 (and hoping to get through the checkride). In the past, all my students have had some experience previously and already gotten their medicals.

Although I have no reason to believe this student has any health issues or other potential disqualifiers, I also know that a lot of items that could cause problems (i.e. certain medications or diagnosis of a condition) are not necessarily obvious from instruction or casual discussion (SQUIRREL!). So as a basic precaution, I'd like to explain a bit more about what can get in the way and ask a few questions so that if this student needs to have a chat with Dr. Bruce prior to heading to the AME, that it's all taken care of first rather than later.

Of course, this gets into potentially sensitive information that can make for a touchy discussion, but I think I can handle that part just fine. The concern is one of what to ask as general questions first.
 
Have the student fill out the medical form and bring it to you before they go to the doctor. If they checked any of boxes "YES" or are taking any medications or have a legal history that is reported on the form then they need to probably consult an expert. Otherwise, they shouldn't have any problem.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
Have the student fill out the medical form and bring it to you before they go to the doctor. If they checked any of boxes "YES" or are taking any medications or have a legal history that is reported on the form then they need to probably consult an expert. Otherwise, they shouldn't have any problem.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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And yet I disagree - it's not the CFI's business what boxes have been checked YES. I go with the suggestion to contact AOPA rather than the CFI. Now, what the CFI *can* provide is an explanation (without knowing the details) about those boxes. For example, a conversation with the student explaining the various categories of those boxes and what type of backup would be needed. But again, I don't assume nor expect the CFI to know what's reportable and what doesn't need to be reported.
 
LearDriver said:
Its none of the instructors business. You just tell them to get the medical or they don't get to solo.
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I couldn't agree less.

I would hope that an instructor would provide at least some guidance and some suggestions on how to avoid medical pitfalls and, potentially, screw one's chances of being at least a Light Sport Pilot...

Students rely on instructors for advice and support.
 
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If you don't feel up to explaining what is involved in getting a medical and maybe even if you do, I think joining AOPA and doing the Turbo Medical is a real good start. It will flag any potential issues. The student should also be aware of Part 67 of the FAR which goes over standards for the medical. And last if he thinks he may have an issue, have him talk it over with his AME before he goes for the exam. And help him pick a good AME.

Barb(AME)
 
I think the MOST you can do is insist that the candidate get the heck over to an AMEs and see if they can get issued. However, advise the pilot that if there is any history of being on ADD meds, heck any pills at all, they probably want to do a consultation OFF the record and to not touch any paper, prior to doing an application.

I applaud your being proactive. But any AME can do a consultation for ?XY dollars and if he's got a turbomedical filled out (or, and not recommended, a MedXpress with a SHARP AME who knows how to view it w/o dumping it into the certification subsystem) ....many times we can proceed and to the medical.

Common issues: ADD meds & ADD. Deuteranopia (red-green partial color blindness). A DUI (amazingly common....and AMEs have to get the court records; we can no longer issue after even a single DUI if they didn't blow).

Bruce :)
 
LearDriver said:
Its none of the instructors business. You just tell them to get the medical or they don't get to solo.
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I'm glad you weren't my instructor with that attitude. People just learning to fly don't know about medicals, the potential pitfalls, or any other details. So you'll instruct them how to fly but not on this aspect of regulations?
 
Thanks for the answers, that gives me a good idea of how to proceed. Great help on here as always! :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm glad you weren't my instructor with that attitude. People just learning to fly don't know about medicals, the potential pitfalls, or any other details. So you'll instruct them how to fly but not on this aspect of regulations?
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Its not the instructors job to explain all of the details of a medical with a student other than duration of medical certificates. You help them get a few phone numbers of different docs and tell them to pick one. Unless you are an AME also, its not your place to discuss their medical status or to give them advise on their situation. If they go and make answers on the form and then get in trouble for making a false statement based on your advise, who do you think is going to be getting a phone call from the feds?

Don't worry you wouldn't have been one of my students anyways.
 
I'd suggest going over the medical process and form with the student, explaining the blocks to be filled out. Don't solicit information. Recommend AOPA TurboMedical. Do advise the student to contact an AME or post here if there are concerns that he won't qualify.
 
LearDriver said:
Its not the instructors job to explain all of the details of a medical with a student other than duration of medical certificates. You help them get a few phone numbers of different docs and tell them to pick one. Unless you are an AME also, its not your place to discuss their medical status or to give them advise on their situation. If they go and make answers on the form and then get in trouble for making a false statement based on your advise, who do you think is going to be getting a phone call from the feds?
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Ok, note to self: don't teach students regulations that are applicable to flight, either (or where to find them), because if I teach them wrong the feds are going to call me. Yeah, that's being a really responsible instructor looking out for his students and his fulfilling his/her obligations. It looked to me like the OP was talking about helping the student look out for any potential pitfalls the first time on a medical. That's looking out for the student.

Don't worry you wouldn't have been one of my students anyways.
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Good to know we're in agreement on that. :rolleyes:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm glad you weren't my instructor with that attitude. People just learning to fly don't know about medicals, the potential pitfalls, or any other details. So you'll instruct them how to fly but not on this aspect of regulations?
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Not to mention sucking up the students money until he finds out he can't get a medical.
 
Hey, be kind to the CFI guy. He's just trying to do the right thing and NOT suck up anyone's $$s. I get asked about this stuff till I'm blue in the face at the airport- I'm the only CFI who's an AME out at the ranch.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Ok, note to self: don't teach students regulations that are applicable to flight, either (or where to find them), because if I teach them wrong the feds are going to call me. Yeah, that's being a really responsible instructor looking out for his students and his fulfilling his/her obligations. It looked to me like the OP was talking about helping the student look out for any potential pitfalls the first time on a medical. That's looking out for the student.



Good to know we're in agreement on that. :rolleyes:
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Lighten up Ted. You are reaching with that one. I never said that I didn't teach them the information out of the FAR/AIM regarding medical status or requirements. Its just not my area of expertise. I don't know enough about all the medical issues to make a determination for the student. We have a several good senior AME's that can do a much better job with that than I can. I do tell my students to get the medical out of the way early so if there are any issues they will have time to deal with them or stop training before wasting a lot of money. I think that is doing right by the students best interests. Thats my way of doing it. I expect the students to become responsible for themselves and how to work within the system. If you want to hand hold a student through every little issue so they are completely dependent on you, by all means go ahead.
 
My recommendation to view the students form is mostly to just to insure they don't make an dumb mistakes that they can't easily fix. And is only the most though way to do so, there are other ways to educate the student about medical issue.

If your concerned that you can't keep their information confidential then don't review it or at the very least let them know that. Also let them know they are not required to inform you of any medical conditions.

At the very least go over the form with them and show them what things can easily hold up the medical process or be a red flag that they should get a consultation with a AME before applying for the Medical.

I remember the one student a fellow flight instructor had that had his medical held up for months because he marked YES on the unconscious for any reason question. The reason he was unconscious was because he had once played a "pass out" game when he was a young teenager 15 years earlier. While stupid it certianly wasn't any indicator of a medical issue.

At the very least the CFI could have advised this student to leave it blank and ask the AME how it should be answered.

While I haven't seen it I am sure someone has answered the Dizziness question for something simliar.

Brian
 
brcase said:
My recommendation to view the students form is mostly to just to insure they don't make an dumb mistakes that they can't easily fix. And is only the most though way to do so, there are other ways to educate the student about medical issue.

If your concerned that you can't keep their information confidential then don't review it or at the very least let them know that. Also let them know they are not required to inform you of any medical conditions.

At the very least go over the form with them and show them what things can easily hold up the medical process or be a red flag that they should get a consultation with a AME before applying for the Medical.

I remember the one student a fellow flight instructor had that had his medical held up for months because he marked YES on the unconscious for any reason question. The reason he was unconscious was because he had once played a "pass out" game when he was a young teenager 15 years earlier. While stupid it certianly wasn't any indicator of a medical issue.

At the very least the CFI could have advised this student to leave it blank and ask the AME how it should be answered.

While I haven't seen it I am sure someone has answered the Dizziness question for something simliar.

Brian
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It sounds like from that scenario you are suggesting that the instructor tell the student to answer no on the form when the answer is yes. That can get you in a ton of trouble. Especially if the student was to get their certificates yanked for lying on a medical application at a later time. That one may tend to come back to haunt the instructor. If people make dumb mistakes, they need to pay for them. Its how they learn. If they don't have enough common sense to figure out how to answer questions like that then they really shouldn't be flying airplanes anyways. Though I am sure Ted will disagree with that too.
 
murphey said:
And yet I disagree - it's not the CFI's business what boxes have been checked YES. I go with the suggestion to contact AOPA rather than the CFI. Now, what the CFI *can* provide is an explanation (without knowing the details) about those boxes. For example, a conversation with the student explaining the various categories of those boxes and what type of backup would be needed. But again, I don't assume nor expect the CFI to know what's reportable and what doesn't need to be reported.
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I hate to say it but I received bad info from the AOPA regarding issuance of my Sport Pilot student certificate. They told me I would not be able to get it if I put in a conviction history but they were wrong.

Just my .02
 
brcase said:
My recommendation to view the students form is mostly to just to insure they don't make an dumb mistakes that they can't easily fix. And is only the most though way to do so, there are other ways to educate the student about medical issue.

If your concerned that you can't keep their information confidential then don't review it or at the very least let them know that. Also let them know they are not required to inform you of any medical conditions.

At the very least go over the form with them and show them what things can easily hold up the medical process or be a red flag that they should get a consultation with a AME before applying for the Medical.

I remember the one student a fellow flight instructor had that had his medical held up for months because he marked YES on the unconscious for any reason question. The reason he was unconscious was because he had once played a "pass out" game when he was a young teenager 15 years earlier. While stupid it certianly wasn't any indicator of a medical issue.

At the very least the CFI could have advised this student to leave it blank and ask the AME how it should be answered.

While I haven't seen it I am sure someone has answered the Dizziness question for something simliar.

Brian
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Heh, I had to ask the AME about that one. The way it is phrased, sleeping would make you unconscious for 'any reason'. I asked to make sure it wasn't a trick question.
 
Keane said:
Heh, I had to ask the AME about that one. The way it is phrased, sleeping would make you unconscious for 'any reason'. I asked to make sure it wasn't a trick question.
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I had a friend whose medical got held up on that because she once passed out when very ill. Took several months to get it straightened out.
 
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