Student Drop out rate

saracelica

saracelica

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saracelica
Always heard that alot of students drop out before they received their license. I couldn't believe why anyone would do that after investing thousands of dollars. The last couple of days I definetly considered it. But then I remember why I started flying (to fly with my licensed husband). The level of perfection that two CFI's are asking of me is getting quite fustrating.:mad2: This is more of a rant for me but if anyone has feel free. I have over 100 hours of flight time logged. So it's not for a lack of training. Hopefully I can pull myself together well enough to convince my CFI I'm good and then to do it again with the DPE.
 
better than them passing you along when you know you need more practice.

students drop out for a multitude of reasons. most have to do with the age old time and money though.
 
saracelica said:
Always heard that alot of students drop out before they received their license. I couldn't believe why anyone would do that after investing thousands of dollars. The last couple of days I definetly considered it. But then I remember why I started flying (to fly with my licensed husband). The level of perfection that two CFI's are asking of me is getting quite fustrating.:mad2: This is more of a rant for me but if anyone has feel free. I have over 100 hours of flight time logged. So it's not for a lack of training. Hopefully I can pull myself together well enough to convince my CFI I'm good and then to do it again with the DPE.
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Are you meeting the PTS standards for private pilot? A certain level of performance is mandated to pass....
 
I think I'm "close". I also think that I'm so comfortable with my CFI that it turns so friendly and I can totally bring it when it comes to crunch time with the DPE.
 
Tell your CFI to come to your next lesson disguised as a DPE. Then see how it goes.

saracelica said:
I think I'm "close". I also think that I'm so comfortable with my CFI that it turns so friendly and I can totally bring it when it comes to crunch time with the DPE.
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Olympic athletes are careful about something many of us do not consider....overtraining.
 
The PTS standards are both written down and available. If the CFI is holding you to much tighter standards, a little talk might be in order. If not, a bit of introspection.

Good luck. I suspect even reading these forums to be a good thing for your training. Gives you some degree of inculcation.
 
Yes Steingar it does. (I had to look up the word first - never knew inculcation before)

Overtraining is a possibility. I think the CFI is holding me to a little higher then PTS so that if I mess up at the 'ride then I won't fail.
 
Are you currently flying with two different CFIs who've independently evaluated you?
Are the standards they're using the same standards you'll be tested against in terms of heading, airspeed, and altitude?
Have they given you good tips on how to improve your performance where you're not meeting the standards?

If you mess up "a little" on the ride you won't fail either, provided you immediately correct the problem and don't do it continuously. What I mean here is that if the standard is +/- 10 degrees for heading, and you go -14 and correct it right away and stay within tolerance for the rest of the manuever, your examiner is not likely to fail you. Now, if you're all over the place that will be a different story.
 
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saracelica said:
Yes Steingar it does. (I had to look up the word first - never knew inculcation before)

Overtraining is a possibility. I think the CFI is holding me to a little higher then PTS so that if I mess up at the 'ride then I won't fail.
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Nothing wrong with that so long as it doesn't interfere with your progress. The good weather season is here, even in Toledo. Get some concentrated flight time in if possible and finish up your rating.
 
I flew with a different CFI last night (mine was tied up - figuratively - at work) and he said "You're definetly close" but may have held back since he can't sign me off for the 'ride since he and I didn't do the oral part of the exam.

Like I said above I think my CFI is pushing me a little above the standards so that if I mess up on the ride I'm still good (like he says I should only give myself 40 ft of altitude on the maneuvers instead of 100 - why get use to having 100 during practice if that is all I have)

I keep getting new tips and I don't know why I can't just pull it all together...hence why others maybe dropping out.
 
Remember the "plateau" you had when learning to land? It's not uncommon to have one just before the checkride. And I think it has a lot to do with confidence, to the point where you are relaxed while flying and "the outcome of the manuever is never seriously in doubt".

So, keep at it, and do some solo practice for each dual lesson.
 
saracelica said:
I flew with a different CFI last night (mine was tied up - figuratively - at work) and he said "You're definetly close" but may have held back since he can't sign me off for the 'ride since he and I didn't do the oral part of the exam.

Like I said above I think my CFI is pushing me a little above the standards so that if I mess up on the ride I'm still good (like he says I should only give myself 40 ft of altitude on the maneuvers instead of 100 - why get use to having 100 during practice if that is all I have)

I keep getting new tips and I don't know why I can't just pull it all together...hence why others maybe dropping out.
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As many reasons for students dropping out as there are students. Like I said, I suspect that a number of flights spaced closely together will do more help than harm. Certainly worked for me. Good luck.
 
Study the PTS and understand the tolerances. Then go out solo and relax. Most things with me click when I'm solo (sometimes a CFI can be a distraction). Solo time is also a confidence booster for many...then show what you got to the DPE!
 
Sara, I don't know where you are, but chances are good there may be a POA CFI near you who might be willing to go up and play DPE for you.
 
Are you flying solo and practicing? Sometimes you need to show yourself that you can do it. I tell students their objective is to shut me up.

There should be a transition when you become the critic, and set your own high standards.

Also -- schedule with a DPE you have to fly to. It really helps shake out any rust and gives you some solo time before you have a passenger.
 
saracelica said:
Yes Steingar it does. (I had to look up the word first - never knew inculcation before)

Overtraining is a possibility. I think the CFI is holding me to a little higher then PTS so that if I mess up at the 'ride then I won't fail.
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My CFI more or less did the same thing. Take the PTS, and cut the tolerances in half, and thats what he made me get down to. It was probably a good thing because on my checkride, (whether its nerves, or the gustyness of that day), i was definitely kissing the edges of some tolerances.
 
Thanks everyone. I'll just pull up my boot straps and bring the confidence the next time I go flying maybe I'll get the endorsement I want tomorrow. :)
 
I originally soloed when I was 17, but I had to drop out of flight training because I couldn't afford it. I picked it up a few years later when I had the money.
 
Definitely study up on the PTS information. Not just for the flying parts of it, but for the oral exam as well.

I didn't really focus on the PTS as the primary guide for study and kinda went off on my own. Short end of the story was that I spent way to much time getting too much detail for things that didn't have as much bearing in the oral exam and not enough on the things that did. So I was listed as week in a few areas and way to overprepared in others (aka, brough my own hangin' rope with me).

My examiner was a real good one. But very much straight out of the PTS. If I had focused just on those 6-10 pages worth and known all those points cold, it would have taken much less time and and not been as big of a mental struggle for me. Got the certificate, but came out knowing I coulda done much better.

Wisdome I pass on to candidates like you: Know the PTS info so cold, it insta-freezes the DPE's cuppa joe.

(oh, and know your airspace info really good as well, especially when he points at the fading magenta rings on a sectional and asks, "So, what do I need to know when I'm inside this ring? And what changes when we fly outside of it?").
 
Sara:

I have been flying awhile, and just about every time I go somewhere or just enjoying the sky, I think "Boy, what a pitiful performance." Hang in there. You can never get good enough to satisfy yourself, but you can easily get good enough to be safe. You're close -- don't give up!

Stacey
 
And by the way, Sara, the DPE doesn't want to fail you. He/she is a person too, and goofs up once in a while also.
 
somorris said:
And by the way, Sara, the DPE doesn't want to fail you. He/she is a person too, and goofs up once in a while also.
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While this is well intentioned reassurance, I've met my share of prick DPE. Including one who liked to fail private candidates for obscure stuff, such as not knowing details about minimum equipment lists.

Karma usually catches up. In this case he's doing time for tax evasion.

My DPE was a wonderful fellow however. It felt like 2 hours of gentle reassurance, and he even bought me lunch.
 
My checkride for my multi-engine rating was cake. It didn't even feel like a test. It was just a couple hours of what felt like "casual chatting" about twins, and just some casual flying. Maybe I got lucky.
 
steingar said:
My PP checkride was more lesson than test.
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I still get the shivers when I think about all of the exam anxiety I had for my fist check ride.

It was for private pilot, rotorcraft, gyroplane and I had to travel out of state to the DPE.

After the check ride I was blown away by how much of a "non-event" it was.

It really is ( or at least should be) just like a friendly demo ride with a friend.

Have faith that you can do the PTS maneuvers and focus on the work and you will do great.

There are some good books available that give exam advice, but don't let them give you the impression that your check ride is going to be a worst case.

.
 
steingar said:
My PP checkride was more lesson than test.
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Felt the same. Even though he frequently said, "I'm not here to instruct you," I still learned a lot about things my instructor did cover, and many things he didn't.

A tip on dealing with crosswind drift in the pattern continues to be very valuable (especially when the drift is toward the runway when on downwind).
 
steingar said:
My PP checkride was more lesson than test.
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Same. I had a great examiner and learned a few tips. My last CFI really prepped me for the practical. Questions during maneuvers, back to back to back. Hour of that, and I needed to wring my shirt out. The actual test was more like a leisurely flight lesson.
 
Sara's experience is exactly what I mean when I say that "standards are too tough as it is, there's no need to have a CFI forcing more strict requirements upon a candidate."

Personally, if I were you, I would find another CFI pronto, and let the CFI you have now know that you don't appreciate the "lump tax" in the right seat. Sounds like he's made more than double his allotted "Almost to the airline" hours off you.

40 feet?? Wow. At those standards I'd probably still not have my PPL.
 
saracelica said:
Always heard that alot of students drop out before they received their license. I couldn't believe why anyone would do that after investing thousands of dollars. The last couple of days I definetly considered it. But then I remember why I started flying (to fly with my licensed husband). The level of perfection that two CFI's are asking of me is getting quite fustrating.:mad2: This is more of a rant for me but if anyone has feel free. I have over 100 hours of flight time logged. So it's not for a lack of training. Hopefully I can pull myself together well enough to convince my CFI I'm good and then to do it again with the DPE.
Click to expand...


Surely in the 100 or so hours you have been in training you have flown with your "licenced Pilot husband" .. What does he say about your flying skills? :dunno::dunno::idea:

Ben.
 
How have you built that 100 hours? Was most of that actual training? Or was some of it fooling around?

I only ask because I know a guy who had alot of time, but it was because once he got to a solo stage, he kind of stopped training. All he would do is fly to a practice area, do some maneuvers and fly back. and just barely kept doing that for a while. Never actually finished for whatever reason.
 
SkyHog said:
Sara's experience is exactly what I mean when I say that "standards are too tough as it is, there's no need to have a CFI forcing more strict requirements upon a candidate."

Personally, if I were you, I would find another CFI pronto, and let the CFI you have now know that you don't appreciate the "lump tax" in the right seat. Sounds like he's made more than double his allotted "Almost to the airline" hours off you.

40 feet?? Wow. At those standards I'd probably still not have my PPL.
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So you plow a 40' deep trench in the runway everytime you land?
 
N801BH said:
Surely in the 100 or so hours you have been in training you have flown with your "licenced Pilot husband" .. What does he say about your flying skills? :dunno::dunno::idea:
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I was actually thinking that it might even have a detrimental effect if her husband trained a long time ago and picked up some bad habits since that maybe Sara's picked up on.

There's definitely an interesting dynamic to a husband/wife pair who are both pilots.
 
N801BH said:
Surely in the 100 or so hours you have been in training you have flown with your "licenced Pilot husband" .. What does he say about your flying skills? :dunno::dunno::idea:

Ben.
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I have not Ben. By the time I'm done with the lessons for the week I don't want to go flying for fun. Next time I go flying with my husband I want to be PIC.
 
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