Stuck in Knoxville - but it could be worse.

azure said:
I'm waiting to see how much of an effect it will have on the accident rate.
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Did the murder rate go down when they passed a law against it? ;)

It will have almost zero net-effect on the accident rate, but government revenues will go up until they attach jail time to it. Then it'll cost the rest of us who aren't morons more in tax dollars.

"You can't fix stupid."

Or the one someone here uses on their signature that made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it...

"There's a left side to the bell curve, and people do really live there!"

I've always thought a better solution than fines, which are private, would be fines plus you get a special dunce-cap license plate. On normal roads you have bright orange plates that warn everyone else to stay away.

On special sections of multi-lane highway instead of the useless HOV lanes, put up jersey barriers and all "dunce-plate" cars get ONE lane that's all theirs. They get the joy of going slowly if there's lots of dunces out that day, and Darwin will take care of the rest.

The rest of us don't have to deal with them in the other lanes.

In addition, one could "work off" their dunce plate by attending some serious and difficult "not every kid wins a trophy" driving courses. In fact, let's say only the top ten percent of graduates get their dunce plate removed. The rest just knock off a little time of their dunce-plate sentence. Get an "A" you get your regular plates back.
 
This reminds me of the conversation I had with my mechanic when they found the broken engine mount.

"Uhh... Ted, we found something. It's really bad."
"What?"
"The engine mount is cracked. It's going to need to be removed and repaired. It's going to take a lot of labor and cost a lot."
"No, that's a good thing."
"What?!"
"You found it on the ground. Really bad would be me finding it in the air!"

Glad that you're safe and on the ground. Hope they get it fixed soon.
 
EdFred said:
For the record, the entire state of Ohio, and its drivers should be removed from existence. Every car that was doing something stupid on the way back, starting 4 miles outside of Knoxville had an Ohio plate. When I crossed the Ohio River I went from doing 80 to doing 8. That many stupid people in one place, it's bound to cause problems. No joke, I was barely past the welcome to ohio sign (as in a matter of feet), and it was Idiotsville. I made it from TYS to the Ohio River in 3 hours and change. It then took another 2 hours to go 48 miles with all the morons sporting Ohio plates. Even after I got out of that void of intelligence and into Indiana, and then Michigan, the cars causing problems on the roads....Ohio plates.
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We in Ohio drive on the right hand side of the road. You should really try it some time.
 
steingar said:
We in Ohio drive on the right hand side of the road. You should really try it some time.
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No you don't. You all camp in the left lane, scared to pass the vehicles in the right lane.
 
Back to the airplane. Got a call from the mechanic this morning, and he cut open the oil filter to see if there was any metal in the filter just because we ran low on oil - twice. What he found was even more interesting. There's a gasket on the inside of the oil filter and that was pushed into the oil inlet holes. What? Yeah, think about that, the gasket INSIDE the filter was pushed into the INLET holes. How does that happen?

I have an AirWolf remote filter system installed, and when the engine was pulled out to repair the motor mount just before I bought it, we think that the oil lines got crossed during the re-installation. I've faxed the installation drawings to the mechanic and he's going to verify if the oil lines to the filter are flip flopped. If they are, which pretty much has to be the case, this will be an easy fix. Oh, but I do get to buy another oil cooler.
 
Did another shop do the re-install after the motor mount fix? If so, I would say that that shop just bought 2 oil coolers.

I keep trying to think of an interesting way for me to help you get your plane back, but I'm coming up blank.
 
EdFred said:
Back to the airplane. Got a call from the mechanic this morning, and he cut open the oil filter to see if there was any metal in the filter just because we ran low on oil - twice. What he found was even more interesting. There's a gasket on the inside of the oil filter and that was pushed into the oil inlet holes. What? Yeah, think about that, the gasket INSIDE the filter was pushed into the INLET holes. How does that happen?

I have an AirWolf remote filter system installed, and when the engine was pulled out to repair the motor mount just before I bought it, we think that the oil lines got crossed during the re-installation. I've faxed the installation drawings to the mechanic and he's going to verify if the oil lines to the filter are flip flopped. If they are, which pretty much has to be the case, this will be an easy fix. Oh, but I do get to buy another oil cooler.
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Ok question. If indeed the A&P crossed the intake and out put lines, is this something that should get:

1) Reported to the Shop that did the job with a hey you guys messed up and could have killed me please be more careful next time; or

2)Reported to the FAA so that they keep an eye on this shop or A&P; or

3) Both One and two?

CJones said:
Did another shop do the re-install after the motor mount fix? If so, I would say that that shop just bought 2 oil coolers.

I keep trying to think of an interesting way for me to help you get your plane back, but I'm coming up blank.
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If the shop did the work for someone other than Ed he may not get any assistance on the other hand if they were good business people I'd say they would reimburse Ed the cost of the coolers and labor. Then again is this something the prebuy should have caught?
 
CJones said:
Did another shop do the re-install after the motor mount fix? If so, I would say that that shop just bought 2 oil coolers.
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AdamZ said:
Ok question. If indeed the A&P crossed the intake and out put lines, is this something that should get:


If the shop did the work for someone other than Ed he may not get any assistance on the other hand if they were good business people I'd say they would reimburse Ed the cost of the coolers and labor. Then again is this something the prebuy should have caught?
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The work was not done for me. It was being done for the previous owner during the purchase process, and was completed before even saw the plane in person. Interesting that the problem wasn't noticed in 2 oil changes (I did a 3rd one, but that's not on the list of things to check) and an annual inspection since I got the plane. But, it's not really something on the list of things to inspect either. It is odd that I made it 2 years without it being an issue before.
 
EdFred said:
Back to the airplane. Got a call from the mechanic this morning, and he cut open the oil filter to see if there was any metal in the filter just because we ran low on oil - twice. What he found was even more interesting. There's a gasket on the inside of the oil filter and that was pushed into the oil inlet holes. What? Yeah, think about that, the gasket INSIDE the filter was pushed into the INLET holes. How does that happen?

I have an AirWolf remote filter system installed, and when the engine was pulled out to repair the motor mount just before I bought it, we think that the oil lines got crossed during the re-installation. I've faxed the installation drawings to the mechanic and he's going to verify if the oil lines to the filter are flip flopped. If they are, which pretty much has to be the case, this will be an easy fix. Oh, but I do get to buy another oil cooler.
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There was a pool of something or other under your plane on Friday when it was sitting out on the ramp...I wasn't that close to it, just going back and forth doing some stuff...
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Yep, that was the oil that blew out of the new oil cooler Friday morning. That's where I left the plane. The keys are where I left em - clipped to the vent window.
 
EdFred said:
Yep, that was the oil that blew out of the new oil cooler Friday morning. That's where I left the plane. The keys are where I left em - clipped to the vent window.
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If I had any experience flying a Comanche, I'd offer to bring it home for you when you got it fixed...alas, never flown anything in the Piper line with retract or more than 160HP (did learn on that white with brown stripes Warrior on the left of that picture though...did my check-ride in that very plane)...That plus the fact that have precisely 2.0 in retracts (R182 to do my HP/Complex endorsement)...
 
JeffDG said:
If I had any experience flying a Comanche, I'd offer to bring it home for you when you got it fixed...alas, never flown anything in the Piper line with retract or more than 160HP (did learn on that white with brown stripes Warrior on the left of that picture though...did my check-ride in that very plane)...That plus the fact that have precisely 2.0 in retracts (R182 to do my HP/Complex endorsement)...
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Hmmm...good idea Jeff.

I'm not that far away (a few hours drive). If you need someone to fly the plane back to Michigan, Ed, let me know. I can do it for you. I do have time in Piper Retracts (but not Comanche specific).
 
EdFred said:
Back to the airplane. Got a call from the mechanic this morning, and he cut open the oil filter to see if there was any metal in the filter just because we ran low on oil - twice. What he found was even more interesting. There's a gasket on the inside of the oil filter and that was pushed into the oil inlet holes. What? Yeah, think about that, the gasket INSIDE the filter was pushed into the INLET holes. How does that happen?

I have an AirWolf remote filter system installed, and when the engine was pulled out to repair the motor mount just before I bought it, we think that the oil lines got crossed during the re-installation. I've faxed the installation drawings to the mechanic and he's going to verify if the oil lines to the filter are flip flopped. If they are, which pretty much has to be the case, this will be an easy fix. Oh, but I do get to buy another oil cooler.
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That's inexcusable. The filter base assembly and the engine accessory case adapter are stamped with big letters.

From the Airwolf manuals

Install assembled hose assy’s (xx) and (xx) connecting the “A” port on the filter adapter to the “A” port on the filter base and the “B” port on the filter adapter to the “B” port on the filter base and torque to 270-350 in/ lbs.

I remember verfying the hose routing when I reinstalled my engine more than once because the inlet and outlet hoses were virtually the same length despite the different individual routing paths.

At least it appears you have identified the blockage.

The mechanic should submit an SDR on this, imho.

http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Default.aspx

fwiw, if you can't schedule a local ride to pick up the plane I'd be willing to make a run, splitting the gas from MI to TN.
 
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JeffDG said:
If I had any experience flying a Comanche, I'd offer to bring it home for you when you got it fixed...alas, never flown anything in the Piper line with retract or more than 160HP (did learn on that white with brown stripes Warrior on the left of that picture though...did my check-ride in that very plane)...That plus the fact that have precisely 2.0 in retracts (R182 to do my HP/Complex endorsement)...
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SkyHog said:
Hmmm...good idea Jeff.

I'm not that far away (a few hours drive). If you need someone to fly the plane back to Michigan, Ed, let me know. I can do it for you. I do have time in Piper Retracts (but not Comanche specific).
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"Flying a Comanche ain't like dusting crops kid!"

No knock on any of your piloting skills, but when I bought the Comanche I had 550-ish hours, with about 450 of that in PA28 series. Most of that in the Hershey bar version. When I was going to get the Comanche, I was having trouble finding a Comanche CFI mandated by my insurance company. It was only 5 hours, and I figured, "bah, it's a plane, you fly it, you land it." Well, it's different than landing the Arrow, the Cherokee, the Beech, and all the Cessnas I flew. The only other plane I have time in that it lands like is the Seneca. The sight picture is different, the approach setup is different, and the airspeed window is 3knots. Also, there is no mush on landing like the Cherokees or 172's. When she's done flying, she's done flying, and you better be inches off the runway when it does. Oh yeah, and if you're outside that 3knot window, you're climbing again, and that balloon is gonna pop.

Plus, neither of ya meet the open pilot clause on there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on the board who does meet it - unless someone has a bunch of PA24 time I don't know about.
 
Steve said:
That's inexcusable. The filter base assembly and the engine accessory case adapter are stamped with big letters.

From the Airwolf manuals

Install assembled hose assy’s (xx) and (xx) connecting the “A” port on the filter adapter to the “A” port on the filter base and the “B” port on the filter adapter to the “B” port on the filter base and torque to 270-350 in/ lbs.

I remember verfying the hose routing when I reinstalled my engine more than once because the inlet and outlet hoses were virtually the same length despite the different individual routing paths.

At least it appears you have identified the blockage.

The mechanic should submit an SDR on this, imho.

http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Default.aspx

fwiw, if you can't schedule a local ride to pick up the plane I'd be willing to make a run, splitting the gas from MI to TN.
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I talked with a mechanic a couple minutes ago on this, he verified the hoses. Yep, it was absolutely 100% installed backwards. A --> B, and B --> A. It's been this way for 7 years - the Airwolf system was installed in April 2004. Off the record there's a reason this was discovered, but I ain't gonna make it public. :eek:
 
EdFred said:
"Flying a Comanche ain't like dusting crops kid!"

No knock on any of your piloting skills, but when I bought the Comanche I had 550-ish hours, with about 450 of that in PA28 series. Most of that in the Hershey bar version. When I was going to get the Comanche, I was having trouble finding a Comanche CFI mandated by my insurance company. It was only 5 hours, and I figured, "bah, it's a plane, you fly it, you land it." Well, it's different than landing the Arrow, the Cherokee, the Beech, and all the Cessnas I flew. The only other plane I have time in that it lands like is the Seneca. The sight picture is different, the approach setup is different, and the airspeed window is 3knots. Also, there is no mush on landing like the Cherokees or 172's. When she's done flying, she's done flying, and you better be inches off the runway when it does. Oh yeah, and if you're outside that 3knot window, you're climbing again, and that balloon is gonna pop.

Plus, neither of ya meet the open pilot clause on there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on the board who does meet it - unless someone has a bunch of PA24 time I don't know about.
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Um...that's why I said "If I had any experience..." I'd offer!
 
EdFred said:
"Flying a Comanche ain't like dusting crops kid!"

No knock on any of your piloting skills, but when I bought the Comanche I had 550-ish hours, with about 450 of that in PA28 series. Most of that in the Hershey bar version. When I was going to get the Comanche, I was having trouble finding a Comanche CFI mandated by my insurance company. It was only 5 hours, and I figured, "bah, it's a plane, you fly it, you land it." Well, it's different than landing the Arrow, the Cherokee, the Beech, and all the Cessnas I flew. The only other plane I have time in that it lands like is the Seneca. The sight picture is different, the approach setup is different, and the airspeed window is 3knots. Also, there is no mush on landing like the Cherokees or 172's. When she's done flying, she's done flying, and you better be inches off the runway when it does. Oh yeah, and if you're outside that 3knot window, you're climbing again, and that balloon is gonna pop.

Plus, neither of ya meet the open pilot clause on there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on the board who does meet it - unless someone has a bunch of PA24 time I don't know about.
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Bah. An airplane is an airplane. From an ultralight to a 747, I think I could land anything, and still be ok to take it back up again.
 
steingar said:
Easy to go as fast as you want when you live in a state so awful no one else wants to live there.
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No, the difference is that in Michigan, if someone is in front of you going too slow in the left lane, you just have to wait for them to fall into one of the numerous massive potholes so you can drive over them. :rofl:

That's the one (1) thing Ohio has on Michigan - Ohio's roads are in MUCH better shape. OH is probably one of the top three in the nation for road quality, Michigan's in the bottom three.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No, the difference is that in Michigan, if someone is in front of you going too slow in the left lane, you just have to wait for them to fall into one of the numerous massive potholes so you can drive over them. :rofl:

That's the one (1) thing Ohio has on Michigan - Ohio's roads are in MUCH better shape. OH is probably one of the top three in the nation for road quality, Michigan's in the bottom three.
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Well, if the truckers wouldn't cause all the problems...

I think Michigan has a higher gross weight allowance for trucks than other states, doesn't it?
 
EdFred said:
I think Michigan has a higher gross weight allowance for trucks than other states, doesn't it?
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That is the problem, yes. Normal MGW on the Interstates is 80,000 pounds. I think every other state requires an overweight permit above that (and how hard it is to get such a permit depends on the state and the reason for it - and it's a permit for one load only, on a specific routing). Michigan, OTOH, allows WAY higher weights (I forget the exact limit, but it's somewhere in the 120K-160K range IIRC) without a second thought. Those are the trucks you see that have about seventeen axles on the trailer.

Kinda hard to make roads that can stand up to that, especially in a cold climate.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That is the problem, yes. Normal MGW on the Interstates is 80,000 pounds. I think every other state requires an overweight permit above that (and how hard it is to get such a permit depends on the state and the reason for it - and it's a permit for one load only, on a specific routing). Michigan, OTOH, allows WAY higher weights (I forget the exact limit, but it's somewhere in the 120K-160K range IIRC) without a second thought. Those are the trucks you see that have about seventeen axles on the trailer.

Kinda hard to make roads that can stand up to that, especially in a cold climate.
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Yeah, I wonder why they allow that here, probably some palm greasing way back when, and now no one wants to change it. The hot and cold doesn't really help either.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No, the difference is that in Michigan, if someone is in front of you going too slow in the left lane, you just have to wait for them to fall into one of the numerous massive potholes so you can drive over them. :rofl:

That's the one (1) thing Ohio has on Michigan - Ohio's roads are in MUCH better shape. OH is probably one of the top three in the nation for road quality, Michigan's in the bottom three.
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But we like it that way.
 

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flyingcheesehead said:
That is the problem, yes. Normal MGW on the Interstates is 80,000 pounds. I think every other state requires an overweight permit above that (and how hard it is to get such a permit depends on the state and the reason for it - and it's a permit for one load only, on a specific routing). Michigan, OTOH, allows WAY higher weights (I forget the exact limit, but it's somewhere in the 120K-160K range IIRC) without a second thought. Those are the trucks you see that have about seventeen axles on the trailer.

Kinda hard to make roads that can stand up to that, especially in a cold climate.
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I thought the Dakotas had some pretty extreme MGW limits, too. Of course, there are only 5 cars in the whole state up there, so the chance of running into anyone are pretty slim. ;)

Iowa bumps their MGW up to 90 or 100,000 in the fall so farmers can haul more corn/soybeans to the elevators.
 
EdFred said:
The sight picture is different, the approach setup is different, and the airspeed window is 3knots. Also, there is no mush on landing like the Cherokees or 172's. When she's done flying, she's done flying, and you better be inches off the runway when it does. Oh yeah, and if you're outside that 3knot window, you're climbing again, and that balloon is gonna pop.
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Sounds like a job for a Mooney pilot!
 
EdFred said:
Plus, neither of ya meet the open pilot clause on there. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on the board who does meet it - unless someone has a bunch of PA24 time I don't know about.
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Yeah, but do you have a girlfriend?




:D
 
Ed, weather permitting I could fly you down there Thursday or Saturday. The weather is a long shot I know, now that winter is back.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, she's in Knoxville, with a ruptured oil cooler.
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That tends to happen. If I might make a suggestion, work it up a little more first. Ruptures only happen when she's not ready to go. Sometimes, a little work up front makes the whole experience better.
 
Pretty incredible that it made it that many years without any problems.

I might have enough time to meet the open pilot clause. I've got about 15-20 hours Comanche time (did my complex and CFI in one), and definitely would meet the total time and complex time requirements. You're right, not too many instructors have Comanche time out there.

To how the Comanche lands: It's got a less forgiving wing than the M20F that I used to fly, but is overall similar. Stall characteristics go from flying to not flying in a very short range, and it's difficult to make a greaser, much like a Mooney. Could you land it first try? Yeah, probably. Would it be pretty? No, probably not.
 
I am really glad all this happened on the ground. The rocks there might be small by western comparisons, but they're a lousy place to have an in-air emergency. I'd happily run you down from Cbus wx permitting and all. I hope it can get fixed sans rapine.
 
UPS shipped the parts to the wrong state. Should arrive Monday. I have a root canal on Tuesday, so I'll see what later in the week brings for retrieval weather.
 
EdFred said:
UPS shipped the parts to the wrong state. Should arrive Monday. I have a root canal on Tuesday, so I'll see what later in the week brings for retrieval weather.
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Seriously? There's an Alcoa in some other state? (That's where TYS, actually...not Knoxville)
 
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