strikemaster crashes into hudson river

weilke said:
My understanding is that he had not purchased the plane but that he had it on a longer term lease to build SE jet hours.
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Could be. My understanding was based on these sentences from ANN:
"He had bought the plane in Nashville, TN, from Dragon Aviation, which used the warbird in airshows. Dragon Aviation president Andy Anderson described Faraldi as a "good friend," and confirmed the aircraft had been owned by his company." Of course, as Ken has said, that information is worth what I paid for it.
 
I have landed there many times, and it is a difficult approach. Landing tothe north you have to cross over the highway and traffic that approaches the Kingston -Rhinecliff bridge, while landing to the south you cross right over a housing development and low fence. Winds can be gusty.

First time did it was in a C150, and I was really proud of myself, until a C90 Kingair landed behind me with the main gear straddling the full width, or so it seemed. No hangar space and no tiedowns available. Still a tough place to land.
 
Bobanna said:
Tragic, as usual. Too bad this guy did the Lawn-Dart thing in front of his wife, kids, and colleagues. Sounds to me like careless and reckless operation: Low pass at high speed (according to witnesses) followed by vertical pull-up. I surmise that he had no intention of landing, and performed an aerobatic maneuver after the hot-dog pass and blacked-out with the high-g pull-up. Throttle and stick fall back in his (unconscious) lap, and the bird does what it's supposed to in those circumstances. I'm reminded that the Sea and the Sky are not inherently dangerous, but they are brutally unforgiving. QED.

God bless
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Let's not rush to judgment here. The articles also mentioned that the power appeared to fall off on the climb, so mechanical difficulty shouldn't be ruled out yet.
 
I have to agree that it's not a good place for such un-NOTAM'd stunting... aside from the obvious factor of it being a non-towered field, that's a fairly heavy traffic area, with enroute aircraft routinely following the river. At the very least, with all the bridge traffic and whatnot, the chances of riling up public fears would be very good, even if he'd pulled it off.

And of course he didn't pull it off, and so the media now has another reason for Chicken Little to panic whenever he sees aircraft over the Hudson. Maybe next we'll see some new airspace regs for the river... you'll need to talk to ATC all the way up to Albany or something.

Whatever the cause- blackout, flameout, or both, I can't support his decision to do what he did... if it was intentional and not due to a control problem or some other problem that made him want to get altitude and get out of there.... if he had any hand in making sure it went into the river, my hat's off to him.
 
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Bobanna said:
You are right, rushing to judgment on the absolute probable cause is not necessary; I indicated my speculation on a theory of the accident (loss of consciousness after high-g pull-out {witnesses report this flight maneuver}). My careless and reckless accusation stems from the fact that this airport had insufficient runway to land this aircraft; ostensibly, his sole intention was to perform the fly-by before proceeding to a landing elsewhere. And a pull-up to "vertical" flight (accoring to witnesses) constitutes aerobatic flight without suitable precautions, waivers, and clearances. Without excessive theatrics, I assure you that this high-speed incursion constitutes an unreasonable peril to other aircraft operating on or near that airport. My opinion only, but this guy sounds like an idiot to try something like he did withminimal experience in that type of aircraft. My sympathy for his family.
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Hmmm. Some information there that contradicts what I read in the published account, but not a real surprise, I guess. The report said that he was going to base it at 20N, the airport where I thought he crashed. But I just checked the length, and it's 3100 feet, which does sound a little short. It's used for rough turf strips and has an 86Kt stall speed, though. I don't know.

The vertical pull-up certainly raises questions, but I don't know his skill or experience or whether he had received permission and/or instruction in the maneuver.
 
Bobanna said:
You are right, rushing to judgment on the absolute probable cause is not necessary; I indicated my speculation on a theory of the accident (loss of consciousness after high-g pull-out {witnesses report this flight maneuver}). My careless and reckless accusation stems from the fact that this airport had insufficient runway to land this aircraft; ostensibly, his sole intention was to perform the fly-by before proceeding to a landing elsewhere. And a pull-up to "vertical" flight (accoring to witnesses) constitutes aerobatic flight without suitable precautions, waivers, and clearances. Without excessive theatrics, I assure you that this high-speed incursion constitutes an unreasonable peril to other aircraft operating on or near that airport. My opinion only, but this guy sounds like an idiot to try something like he did withminimal experience in that type of aircraft. My sympathy for his family.
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Wow, you could see all that from Omaha?
 
I'm always surprised when someone is surprised that someone speculated on a forum.

Am I not showing signs of insanity?

Why are we not allowed to speculate. I read the report and it stinks of ill advised decisions making, but since I don't write the report, I get to say that without more detail or serious retribution.
 
Mike Faraldi was a frequent contributor at BeechTalk; had been working for some time to build time in the Strikemaster, preparatory to his plan of purchasing one.

He always presented as a cautious and careful pilot in his board discussions.

Sad loss, especially the circumstances.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Definitely lots of mis-information in the various news reports.

This one indicates that Dragon Aviation still owned the airplane and Faraldi was going to take it to an airshow in FL. Also indicates that he was not intended to land at 20N - just doing a flyby. Intended landing was supposed to be Columbia County 1B1

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...AA--Pilot-and-plane-in-crash-had-clean-record
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Dang. Since they've had more time to investigate, I tend to give this greater credence than the earlier reports. And it seems to support Bobanna's contentions. I'm disappointed. I'm saddened. I wish I could say I was surprised. Not about this particular pilot, about whom I knew nothing prior to this, but about pilot behavior in general.:cryin:
 
Bobanna said:
Thanks, Grant for your words and emotions; as pilots we mourn the tragic loss of fellow airmen, and strive to reconcile it with an easily digestable explanation. As we examine any accident, the human factors that contribute become hauntinly clear. Probably very few of us, and certainly not I, are without some experience based on our judgement that we would rather not have had. For what it's worth, I proposed or suggested an explanation based on the limited information available, but there is no great delight in having done so. I felt the term "contended" sounded more confrontational than analytic. No biggie.

Btw, I did my first solo at Clow many years ago...when it was just sod. I've been back a few times since. Great place. Fly safe.
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I came to Clow long after it stopped being a turf runway (though there's still an unofficial turf strip adjacent to the paved one). My use of "contention" wasn't meant to indicate any sort of, er... contention :dunno:. Maybe "assertion" would have been better? I was trying to get across the point that even now we don't truly now what happened. I certainly don't claim to have the crystal ball! :no: I just know that I'm sad that it happened and hope that we can help prevent a recurrence.
 
Unsanctioned low-level aerobatic displays tend to end badly. Sounds like this is another example.
 
NTSB Preliminary - Spouse says no Aerobatic Training

From the Prelim NTSB report it seems that he only had 21 hours in the Jet, with a type rating in December, 2010.

His spouse reported to the investigator that he had no aerobatic training.

This is very sad..... I knew this gentleman, as I too am based at 20N. He did not intend to land there, but he had called several friends to watch the airshow/flyby. The concensus with those that watched it happen is that he pulled up after his low pass, and then started a sharp left turn.....

The jet continued into the turn, and shortly after into the river! We are all thankful of many things: He did not hit the bridge; He did not have anyone with him; and he did not end up crashing into the housing development just North of the field; He did not crash into the city just South of the field.

The sad thing is, he left a wife and two kids, and many family and friends... because of this dangerous stunt.

RIP DR. Faraldi
 
Bobanna -

Yes I believe this was 100% avoidable.

There are many mindsets when it comes to aviation safety, and common sense. This event showed a lack of attention to either. Worsened by the fact that it causes a great deal of bad PR, and headache for the rest of the pilots that use the field.

As with any airport, there is always opposition to it's existance, and opponents look for any reason to deem it unsafe..... Something like this causes everyone take a look at all the "what-if's" and form conclusions.

I hope this event will cause many of the others with a reckless attitude to re-think, and to change their ways.
 
Very sad and very tragic. He and his family and friends are in my thoughts and prayers.
 
I was at the wake last night, and it was very crowded. He was obviously well liked, and had many people who knew him through aviation, and through his podiatry practice.

It is truely a pity that none of those people were influential enough to see where this was going to lead, and to strongly discourage it. I didn't know about the fly by or jet, until after it happened, and friends and family called me nervously to see if I was OK.

Other pilots from the field said it didn't surprise them, and that they knew he has going to eventually get hurt or killed.... they were all uncomfortable with the though of him flying that aircraft, but none of them were strong enough to try to stop it.

Someone told me that the first words from his wife were "was he showing off?", this was the day before they found him.
Thankfully, she was not in attendance at the airshow/fly by, so I am told.

Two little girls (2 yrs and 5 yrs) lost their dad....... IT SUCKS!!!
 
The news outlets were saying anything that came to mind. I heard from the airport manager that she was not there the day it happened, or the next day when they were trying to recover the body.

There were nine or ten of his friends that were watching the event first hand, and the trauma has hit a few of them pretty hard.

But, thankfully she didn't see it.....

Take care
 
845flier said:
The news outlets were saying anything that came to mind. I heard from the airport manager that she was not there the day it happened, or the next day when they were trying to recover the body.

There were nine or ten of his friends that were watching the event first hand, and the trauma has hit a few of them pretty hard.

But, thankfully she didn't see it.....

Take care
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Vast condolences from one '845' flier to another...(845 is the area code in this part of the world)

This accident has created a huge array of discussion, conjecture and dismay among the pilot community in the Valley. The crew at KPOU has been nonstop about it and we are heartsick. Personally, it's creepy that I was flying not more than 5 minutes before the accident just about over the spot in the river setting up for a GPS approach into 1B1 and heard nothing until we landed back into KPOU about 45 minutes later from the tower controller who asked us if we had seen or heard anything while we were aloft.

The approach into 20N is tricky at best on a good day, and the bridge makes for a daunting obstacle...

The notion, which has been confirmed, that friends were on the bridge walkway awaiting his arrival enroute to 1B1, makes it so much sadder: for their sakes having to witness this, and of course, for the decisionmaking chain that led to the often unwise and in this case fatal choice to do a low altitude flyover. The margins for error are just too slim.

Me he rest in peace and may his family and friends find solace and peace.
 
DutchessFlier said:
The approach into 20N is tricky at best on a good day, and the bridge makes for a daunting obstacle...
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Just looked at this on google maps. Who owns this airport, how come that someone was allowed to put a subdivision right off the end of the runway ?
 
weilke said:
Just looked at this on google maps. Who owns this airport, how come that someone was allowed to put a subdivision right off the end of the runway ?
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It happens all the time. I have seen new subdivisions built almost on top of existing GA airports, then the new inhabitants complain about the noise the airplanes cause, and of course the dange of imminent death by Cessna.

Fair? No. Stupid? Yes. Life ain't fair.
 
Anthony said:
It happens all the time. I have seen new subdivisions built almost on top of existing GA airports, then the new inhabitants complain about the noise the airplanes cause, and of course the dange of imminent death by Cessna.

Fair? No. Stupid? Yes. Life ain't fair.
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Well, the FAA airport funding process with all its warts requires for a airport zoning process to be in place that allows the sponsor to maintain the obstacle planes. But I see that N20 is privately owned and charges landing fees so they probably don't have that mechanism available.
 
Before we spread anymore mis-information.....

The housing development was there long before the airport was, and it was IBM Kingston that was instrumental in getting the airport up and running. There haven't been many noise complaints over the years, this is due to good pilot knowledge, a higher traffic pattern, and a recent compromise (approx 1 1/2 yrs) to remove some daunting trees that were in the approach path to Rwy 15.

The approach into Kingston is a piece of cake, however it doesn't get you any lower than the VFR traffic pattern, so it is like many of the other airports that are very restricted in less than optimal weather.

Approx 15-20 yrs ago (not sure of the exact date), 20N received federal funding for expansion and development, and that improved the runway and airport environment tremendously. But, learning to fly there in the mid 80's, it also put the brakes on some pretty great memories. The larger airport brought larger aircraft, and of course bigger egos. But that's the case with many airports.... (I do visit many airports).

So, fuel up.... and plan a trip to Kingston-Ulster (20N), there are many reasons to do so.... mostly because it sits on the Hudson River, just East of the beautiful Catskills. There is a great fuel farm (self serve with credit card), and plenty of parking. Most importantly, there is a great staff that will help where they can, and welcome you to the small but adequate pilots lounge and Flight school.

Safe travels ..... Don't forget to close your flight plan.

Bring a group and take a taxi over to "The Auld Rhinebeck Aerodrome"...
 
P.S. the neighbors were not complaining about the noise of a Cessna, Piper, or Beechcraft (or any other GA plane).

But..... they were ****ed that a British Fighter Jet was doing Barrel Rolls over their homes..... followed shortly afterwards by it crashing into the Hudson and spilling the remainder of it's fuel.

Let's not generalize..... there is a huge difference between the planes us GA pilots fly, and the one that Dr. Faraldi got his hands on.
 
I grew up in the 845 (nee 914) and am looking forward to flying in to 20N after I get my ticket...
 
I grew up in Woodstock (yes, THE Woodstock), and went to high school in Kingston during the heyday of IBM in the mid Hudson valley. In a way, now that IBM is gone, the area is almost like the old steel towns of Pennsylvania. The airport is OK, but has tricky approaches and departures due to the proximity of the bridge roadway and the housing development. Landing short or having an engine fail on a departure can have big consequences. Ramp space is limited, so at times I have had to park on soggy grass. If you go there, bring tiedowns and boards for under the tires. Think Oshkosh.

It is a short ride across the bridge to the Rhinebeck Aerodrome, something clearly worth
seeing for any aviator, and much closer than Columbia county or Dutchess county airports. On the other hand, these fields have better services and easier approaches.
 
More comments on the "tricky" approach..... are we talking about the same place, lol.

I consider the NDB approach into PSF as tricky, but the 20N approach is a straight in VOR to 3000+ foot runway. Additionally, there is lighting controlled on 123.30 that turns on a vertical guidance to the runway from either direction.

The Displaced threshold to 33, or the recently (@ 1yr) removed trees to 15 make for a very nice approach to a very nice surface.

I do admit... Flat - Sloppy - TLAR - approaches or departures are not a good idea at 20N, or at any airport for that matter. Vy works great on Departures :wink2:, but if you want to get up to altitude quicker.... try Vx.

Call ahead on Unicom 122.80 and you'll get help with all your needs. Parking in abundant on the new ramp area near the Self service fuel pumps (there is someone there 9 - 5 to fuel you if you desire). I'm based there, and have never seen anyone parked on the grass, but I can't really say for sure if it happens or not.

It has had many updates over the past several years, and is one of the nicer airports in the area.... in my humble opinion. 1B1 is a good choice, but fueling there is sometimes difficult due to the lack of order with parking and some chosing to block the ramp near the pumps. KPOU was always a fun jaunt, but not nearly as mellow as 20N is.

We're lucky to have so many great places to fly to/from. KGBR is one of my personal favorites (we miss you Walt).

Try the DME Arc into Jackson Hole, Wy........ Or the Expressway Visual into KLGA..... NOW they are tricky :ihih:
 
845flier said:
Try the DME Arc into Jackson Hole, Wy........ Or the Expressway Visual into KLGA..... NOW they are tricky :ihih:
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Try the River Visual to DCA - I crashed a 767-400 (Sim fortunately) trying to do that one. Totally hosed the last turn.
 
845flier said:
More comments on the "tricky" approach..... are we talking about the same place, lol.

I consider the NDB approach into PSF as tricky, but the 20N approach is a straight in VOR to 3000+ foot runway.

It has had many updates over the past several years, and is one of the nicer airports in the area
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We were based at KPOU but frequently used 20N to practice our approaches. We had also landed there often (John Morrow, our commercial instructor is based there & his EAA chapter orgarnize Young Eagle flights at 20N every year).

I agree that 20N is a very nice airport especially after the FBO added the self service fuel pump. We have never needed to tie down our plane at 20N but there are plenty of paved parking places both near the pump and along the taxiway.

Hai Longworth,
Another 845 flyer
 
30703 said:
(John Morrow, our commercial instructor is based there & his EAA chapter orgarnize Young Eagle flights at 20N every year).
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How is John? He used to post a lot on the Citabria forum, but hasn't posted in a long time. Does he still have his Citabria?
 
John still has his Citabria. I was supposedly to take float plane training in his Citabria last year but could not squeeze it in between our South Africa bush pilot training/flying safari last May and building the Sportsman last September. We plan to take a couple of long cross country trips this year in the Sportsman so I will have to put off the floatplane rating for another year.

Hai Longworth
 
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