Strengthening my resolve

DaleB

DaleB

Final Approach
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DaleB
Not that I needed a reason, really, but I just went through the nonsensical TSA security theater in Omaha. After having to get half undressed (belt, shoes, pockets emptied out, lose the watch, yadda yadda) I got my dose of X-ray radiation, followed by having my nuts fondled by a rubber gloved septugenarian whose salary I involuntarily pay.

Now, as a 51 year old, clean cut, professional WASP male I guess I'm a high security risk. Same with the little wisp of a female fitness instructor right in front of me, and the biker dude behind me. Actually, the three of us along with the other 150 or so poor SOBs they will pack into this flying sardine can would probably be the best defense the damn plane could have.

I really... REALLY... hope to make this my last CONUS airline flight, ever. I would be happy to spend a lot more time and money to avoid being treated like a criminal and cattle, all before breakfast.

Checkride next month, as soon as I can manage it.
 
a word of caution: DHS/TSA non-security procedures also impact small airports, to varying degrees. The security pukes don't have the honesty to tell airport managers when proposed procedures significantly exceed requirements. For example, KBED and KBOS share common procedures. It shouldn't take someone with the IQ above a common house plant to realize that KBOS procedures are overkill for KBED.

In other words, you might not be able to completely escape the insanity of DHS/TSA.
 
All of the posts about, "does flying GA make sense?", are answered by your experience.

If I were an airplane salesperson I would hang out at the terminal of a commuter airline just as passengers were getting off after sitting on the tarmac 2 hours for a gate hold with a sign that said, "I can fix this".
 
No no no. You have to keep flying commercial and posting about getting done by the gustappo. It's very important that you do.

Every time you go through that abuse and complain, some terrorist somewhere dies. They die because they are reading about your experience on internet and choke to death on the donut they're eating while laughing so hard. To them it's hilarious. They don't have to do anything. We get boogalooed, and even as they're dying off, we are creating our own terrorist organization against us from within.
 
Bob Noel said:
a word of caution: DHS/TSA non-security procedures also impact small airports, to varying degrees. The security pukes don't have the honesty to tell airport managers when proposed procedures significantly exceed requirements. For example, KBED and KBOS share common procedures. It shouldn't take someone with the IQ above a common house plant to realize that KBOS procedures are overkill for KBED.

In other words, you might not be able to completely escape the insanity of DHS/TSA.
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Are you talking about the FBO?

I've flown in and out of Bedford a few times, and have never once been checked (Signature).

In and out of Logan once, and I had to run through a detector as well as take my shoes off. The detector went off, but the FBO attendant still let me pass through to to the ramp :rofl:
 
CBeaulieu said:
Are you talking about the FBO?

I've flown in and out of Bedford a few times, and have never once been checked (Signature).

In and out of Logan once, and I had to run through a detector as well as take my shoes off. The detector went off, but the FBO attendant still let me pass through to to the ramp :rofl:
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I'm talking more about us poor sods based at KBED, needing badges and background checks every two years, "training", escorts, etc.
 
Thank the airlines for not securing their aircraft the next time you see a TSA agent.

Let's get real. It's not a government function to secure a vehicle you give someone else a ride in.

We made it so in a panic after 9/11, but by now, it should be the airline's responsibility with testing and oversight by government -- not government doing the screenings.

Gosh, that would raise the price of tickets, you say? Yep. Exactly. Maybe a few re airlines would go under until someone learns how to manage customer price expectations.

I know, keep dreaming.
 
When will they ever learn that post-9/11, we passengers are the best weapons against terrorists, and not the threat?
 
While I believe that some of the security at the airports is necessary, I think that the TSA take it too far. It went from treating suspicious people like they were a criminal candidate to treating everyone as such.
 
Eagle I said:
When will they ever learn that post-9/11, we passengers are the best weapons against terrorists, and not the threat?
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EXACTLY!

But the answer is... letting citizens protect and defend themselves and their neighbors runs counter to the total contol/police state mentality that we have allowed our government to adopt. But I digress. Please don't get me started.
 
The resolve to not use airlines is simple as can be to have, financing that resolve proves more difficult.
 
DaleB said:
Not that I needed a reason, really, but I just went through the nonsensical TSA security theater in Omaha. After having to get half undressed (belt, shoes, pockets emptied out, lose the watch, yadda yadda) I got my dose of X-ray radiation, followed by having my nuts fondled by a rubber gloved septugenarian whose salary I involuntarily pay.

Now, as a 51 year old, clean cut, professional WASP male I guess I'm a high security risk. Same with the little wisp of a female fitness instructor right in front of me, and the biker dude behind me. Actually, the three of us along with the other 150 or so poor SOBs they will pack into this flying sardine can would probably be the best defense the damn plane could have.

I really... REALLY... hope to make this my last CONUS airline flight, ever. I would be happy to spend a lot more time and money to avoid being treated like a criminal and cattle, all before breakfast.

Checkride next month, as soon as I can manage it.
Click to expand...



You obviously don't understand the mission of the TSA. They are much more interested in not offending someone by profiling than they are about providing security.:mad:
 
Henning said:
The resolve to not use airlines is simple as can be to have, financing that resolve proves more difficult.
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Meh. I've worked really hard for a long time, and I'm pretty good at what I do. Or so the people who give me money to do it tell me, anyway. It'll be interesting to revisit this in five years or so, though.
 
Henning said:
The resolve to not use airlines is simple as can be to have, financing that resolve proves more difficult.
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This guy right here has figured it out

file.php


Of all the planes he has, that isn't the one I'd take :)

Now, I just need to own my own railroad and I'm set.

*That's a P2V in the background,.
 
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Tuck the FSA! I can't remember when more BILLIONS have been wasted to create mostly window dressing. On the bright side, though, during this era of high unemployment and austerity some otherwise unemployable people get a paycheck.
 
j1b3h0 said:
Tuck the FSA! I can't remember when more BILLIONS have been wasted to create mostly window dressing. On the bright side, though, during this era of high unemployment and austerity some otherwise unemployable people get a paycheck.
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I sleep well at night knowing all of the potential threats that TSA has removed from the equation!






















Har har! :lol: Would be nice to hear if they've actually EVER been responsible for stopping an event in the CONUS.
 
Sure. Just think of all those deadly water bottles, tubes of Crest and the dreaded Starbucks coffee cups they've kept off of planes.
 
The easiest and simplest way to determine that the TSA is overkill at US airports is to ask one question:

"Of all the guns, knives, spear guns, poisons, water bottles, lipstick containers and everything else seized since September 14, 2011, how many prosecutions have resulted for attempted air piracy?"

Zero. Not a SINGLE gun or knife seized from the half-wits who wander through security with these weapons have been a threat to the flight they were about to board . . . . thus - TSA has done absolutely nothing to keep us safe except for the deterrent effect of having smurfs everywhere . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
The easiest and simplest way to determine that the TSA is overkill at US airports is to ask one question:

"Of all the guns, knives, spear guns, poisons, water bottles, lipstick containers and everything else seized since September 14, 2011, how many prosecutions have resulted for attempted air piracy?"

Zero. Not a SINGLE gun or knife seized from the half-wits who wander through security with these weapons have been a threat to the flight they were about to board . . . . thus - TSA has done absolutely nothing to keep us safe except for the deterrent effect of having smurfs everywhere . . .
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I'm stealing that for FB. :)
 
Our next major attack will not come from the air, it will simply be shipped to us.
 
Tom-D said:
Our next major attack will not come from the air, it will simply be shipped to us.
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That may be more difficult than you may imagine, there is much unseen and unmentioned in that realm. In maritime shipping at least it's the opposite of aviation, there is no 'security theater' except as cruise ship terminals, however there most certainly is some interesting stuff going on.
 
My wife and her traveling buddy recently went to Holland for the tulip whatever. Friend's ~3 oz shampoo was declared illegal, TSA turd said 2.5 oz was the limit. A few weeks earlier I was told by local TSA tha limit is actually 3.4 oz. I hate to think of the devastation that might have been caused by the extra .4 oz or .9 oz that might have been in that tube.

The TSA couldn't track a wounded elephant through fresh snow.

DaleB said:
Sure. Just think of all those deadly water bottles, tubes of Crest and the dreaded Starbucks coffee cups they've kept off of planes.
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A buddy had given me a nice Calibra lighter and a 500ml can of high quality butane, I also had a Bic Lighter. The good lighter I had to take to the counter and have checked through, although I was allowed to keep the can of butane and Bic lighter.:lol::mad2::rolleyes2:
 
Before the TSA came about I had no idea this was a deadly weapon, capable of taking over a 767:
 
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Tom-D said:
Our next major attack will not come from the air, it will simply be shipped to us.
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They don't have to waste the postage on us? We're doing it to ourselves. All they have to do is break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the freak out stuff on the news and try to not choke to death on their snacks while laughing.

Airplanes are the big threat especially the tiny 150. Yet no one even thinks to question the huge enclosed semi trailers parked next to the christmas season mall entrance or driving by ___fill in the blank__. I never figured out how a couple hundred pounds of whatever could be more devistating than 80,000 lbs of the same stuff parked in a busy public location. A 150 might break a window and make a mess on the sidewalk. The truck could drive down there illegally and knock a few buildings down...but it's the small airplane that is the serious threat.
 
fgcason said:
They don't have to waste the postage on us? We're doing it to ourselves. All they have to do is break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the freak out stuff on the news and try to not choke to death on their snacks while laughing.

Airplanes are the big threat especially the tiny 150. Yet no one even thinks to question the huge enclosed semi trailers parked next to the christmas season mall entrance or driving by ___fill in the blank__. I never figured out how a couple hundred pounds of whatever could be more devistating than 80,000 lbs of the same stuff parked in a busy public location. A 150 might break a window and make a mess on the sidewalk. The truck could drive down there illegally and knock a few buildings down...but it's the small airplane that is the serious threat.
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Exactly 11-12X the OKC bombing force in a crowded area of any major city, very bad. Coordinated attack with 20-30-40 of the same trailers.... I don't even want to think about it.

You don't have to be very smart or think very long to come up with some scenarios that would be much worse than any Cessna trainer attack. Although it does keep the F-16 pilots sharp on their slow flight skills.

All we can hope for is that behind the curtains at least some resources are working on real security threats.
 
Last week I met up with a friend, a young Army officer with multiple tours in Afghanistan. He was made a double-amputee there (below the knees) by an IED. This man has never had a word of complaint about the sacrifice he made for his country. That's character, gentlemen, and it stands in marked contrast to all this whining about the modest sacrifice you're asked to make by the TSA at our airports.

You all need to have some humility about your knowledge of the security rules and their reasons for existing. They are not arbitrary. The amount of liquid you can bring on a plane is what it is for a specific and sound reason. There is a reason that even you "clean cut, professional WASP" must be thoroughly screened. You may not know the reasons, but they are not arbitrary.

You must understand that while it's true that we have had major successes in our war against terrorism since 9/11--bin Laden, al-Libi, et al.--the threat from al-Qaeda and other Islamist groups remains very real. There are men and women fighting every day around the world to combat these threats on your behalf. They are there to keep you safe so that you can go to bars with your friends, fly on the weekends as you do, and in general live a nice, tranquil life. All that is asked of you in this effort is a little patience and support. And so I am amazed when some of my fellow Americans, who have given absolutely nothing to this effort, complain about trivial inconveniences. You insult those who really know what sacrifice is.

Of course, you can keep whining and pontificating on blogs and be smugly satisfied with your own genius and omniscience. But results speak for themselves. The TSA has kept our airspace completely safe for the last decade. I have no connection to that organization, but I have spent my entire life working on behalf of the national security, in and out of uniform. I believe that those TSA officers have an important but thankless job, forced to endure the uninformed ridicule of whiny civilians.

But at least for my part, I thank you all for your service and keeping me safe while I travel in the States.
 
Tommy3 said:
Last week I met up with a friend, a young Army officer with multiple tours in Afghanistan. He was made a double-amputee there (below the knees) by an IED. This man has never had a word of complaint about the sacrifice he made for his country. That's character, gentlemen, and it stands in marked contrast to all this whining about the modest sacrifice you're asked to make by the TSA at our airports.

You all need to have some humility about your knowledge of the security rules and their reasons for existing. They are not arbitrary. The amount of liquid you can bring on a plane is what it is for a specific and sound reason. There is a reason that even you "clean cut, professional WASP" must be thoroughly screened. You may not know the reasons, but they are not arbitrary.

You must understand that while it's true that we have had major successes in our war against terrorism since 9/11--bin Laden, al-Libi, et al.--the threat from al-Qaeda and other Islamist groups remains very real. There are men and women fighting every day around the world to combat these threats on your behalf. They are there to keep you safe so that you can go to bars with your friends, fly on the weekends as you do, and in general live a nice, tranquil life. All that is asked of you in this effort is a little patience and support. And so I am amazed when some of my fellow Americans, who have given absolutely nothing to this effort, complain about trivial inconveniences. You insult those who really know what sacrifice is.

Of course, you can keep whining and pontificating on blogs and be smugly satisfied with your own genius and omniscience. But results speak for themselves. The TSA has kept our airspace completely safe for the last decade. I have no connection to that organization, but I have spent my entire life working on behalf of the national security, in and out of uniform. I believe that those TSA officers have an important but thankless job, forced to endure the uninformed ridicule of whiny civilians.

But at least for my part, I thank you all for your service and keeping me safe while I travel in the States.
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I certainly understand your post and perspective, but the TSA and the military's efforts overseas are not the same. Also, keep in mind you are also talking to a lot of veterans on this board as well. How does it feel when any veteran and natural born citizen of this country is told they can't be trusted with a pair of nail clippers or a bottle of water on an airliner? With the information systems available today, I wonder what it takes to be a trusted citizen of this country? Many of us are also ready to be part of the solution if given the chance, i.e. the comments about the passengers protecting the aircraft. All that's being suggested is that taking away grandmas depends, or patting down babies, is obviously being done because of our issues around profiling; not because anyone really thinks grandma is a threat. How do we know it isn't working? Not ONE terrorist act that has been stopped by the airport TSA procedures? In fact they have failed to prevent every airline based attempt at terrorism since 9/11. Just a week ago we had an ex-con slip past TSA security and get on an airliner. He was only caught by a stewardess doing a head count.

People call this stuff out, because we want a safe country, period. We are here to be another pair of eyes and ears, and to help if given the opportunity. We are loyal citizens, don't alienate us with nonsense.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I certainly understand your post and perspective, but the TSA and the military's efforts overseas are not the same. Also, keep in mind you are also talking to a lot of veterans on this board as well. How does it feel when any veteran and natural born citizen of this country is told they can't be trusted with a pair of nail clippers or a bottle of water on an airliner? With the information systems available today, I wonder what it takes to be a trusted citizen of this country? Many of us are also ready to be part of the solution if given the chance, i.e. the comments about the passengers protecting the aircraft. All that's being suggested is that taking away grandmas depends, or patting down babies, is obviously being done because of our issues around profiling; not because anyone really thinks grandma is a threat. How do we know it isn't working? Not ONE terrorist act that has been stopped by the airport TSA procedures? In fact they have failed to prevent every airline based attempt at terrorism since 9/11. Just a week ago we had an ex-con slip past TSA security and get on an airliner. He was only caught by a stewardess doing a head count.

People call this stuff out, because we want a safe country, period. We are here to be another pair of eyes and ears, and to help if given the opportunity. We are loyal citizens, don't alienate us with nonsense.
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:yeahthat:
As a vet myself, I defended the freedom of Americans. One of those freedoms was to not be molested just because I want to go somewhere far away.
 

Tommy3 said:
Last week I met up with a friend, a young Army officer with multiple tours in Afghanistan. He was made a double-amputee there (below the knees) by an IED. This man has never had a word of complaint about the sacrifice he made for his country. That's character, gentlemen, and it stands in marked contrast to all this whining about the modest sacrifice you're asked to make by the TSA at our airports.

You all need to have some humility about your knowledge of the security rules and their reasons for existing. They are not arbitrary. The amount of liquid you can bring on a plane is what it is for a specific and sound reason. There is a reason that even you "clean cut, professional WASP" must be thoroughly screened. You may not know the reasons, but they are not arbitrary.

You must understand that while it's true that we have had major successes in our war against terrorism since 9/11--bin Laden, al-Libi, et al.--the threat from al-Qaeda and other Islamist groups remains very real. There are men and women fighting every day around the world to combat these threats on your behalf. They are there to keep you safe so that you can go to bars with your friends, fly on the weekends as you do, and in general live a nice, tranquil life. All that is asked of you in this effort is a little patience and support. And so I am amazed when some of my fellow Americans, who have given absolutely nothing to this effort, complain about trivial inconveniences. You insult those who really know what sacrifice is.

Of course, you can keep whining and pontificating on blogs and be smugly satisfied with your own genius and omniscience. But results speak for themselves. The TSA has kept our airspace completely safe for the last decade. I have no connection to that organization, but I have spent my entire life working on behalf of the national security, in and out of uniform. I believe that those TSA officers have an important but thankless job, forced to endure the uninformed ridicule of whiny civilians.

But at least for my part, I thank you all for your service and keeping me safe while I travel in the States.
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Tommy,

I believe that protecting the public from terrorism is an important job that needs to be done. I just don't believe that the TSA does that job well. Much of what they do is security theater. When I have to get molested to get onto the airport grounds on one side of the airport while I'm able to walk through open doors on the other side of the airport...something is wrong. When the pilots and flight attendants have to go through a full TSA screening to get to their airplanes while minimum wage employees are able to walk right through unlocked doors...something is wrong.

I'll give just a couple of examples of stories that I feel demonstrate how misguided the TSA is in their current charge.

I was standing in line, at the gate, preparing to board a flight when a TSA agent approached me and a coworker with a device that "sniffed" liquids in an attempt to determine if they had explosive properties. This is, mind you, after we were already screened and stripped of all excess liquids. I was drinking from an open bottle of water. I was approached by the agent and he told me that I had to let him "sniff" my water for explosives. I complied, mostly out of curiosity. After my scan, my coworker pulled an unopened bottle of Gatorade out of his bag and offered it to the agent who asked him if the bottle had been opened. My coworker said replied that it had not yet been opened and the agent informed him that, since it was an unopened bottle of liquid, it was not subject to search. What? First, he took my coworker at his word that the bottle had not been opened. Second, what sense does it make that only opened bottles pose a danger? If anything, it should be the opposite. He had just witnessed me drink from my bottle. Why would I ingest (or even pretend to ingest) an explosive substance?

Second, this....
http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.c...et-anything-past-the-tsas-nude-body-scanners/
Enough said on that...

There are an infinite number of ways for somebody with malicious intent to kill between a couple hundred to a thousand innocent citizens. The Oklahoma City bombings proved that. Anything from an RPG at the end of the runway at Chicago Midway to a Ryder truck loaded with explosives in Times Square. If we accept that it is impossible to protect from the loss of a single airliner full of passengers**, we then need to turn our attention to protecting the country from a terrorist using the airliner as a weapon of mass casualty. That is not best accomplished in the way that the TSA is going about it. It is best accomplished by armed air marshals, armed pilots and fortified cockpits. Plus, no post 9/11 airline pilot would likely allow his airplane to be turned into a weapon. He'd likely sacrifice himself and all of the passengers before he allowed a terrorist into his cockpit.

I also deal with security in my job on a daily basis. I understand that if I'm able to hop a six foot tall chain link fence at our local airport with commercial air service at 1:00 AM and walk unencumbered to a parked (unguarded) airliner, it doesn't make sense to molest paying passengers in the name of protecting them.

I really don't care about inconveniences. I'd be screened for an hour per commercial flight if it truly guaranteed that we would never lose another airliner full of passengers to a terrorist attack. But it's just not possible to protect against that in the way that they're approaching it.

I believe that the average TSA agent is well intentioned and unappreciated. I don't dislike them because they inconvenience me. Hell, I don't even dislike them. I do believe that most of them feel like they are working to protect us. What I do dislike is what those above them force them to do and that they do it mindlessly without any thought to the reasons behind the theatrics.

The chain of security is only as strong as its weakest link. While passengers are able to board airliners in countries with considerably less strict security procedures and disembark that aircraft inside of the security perimeter at JFK, the terrorists will use that ability to attack us if they so choose. If anything that the TSA does treads on the liberties of the citizens of this country (liberties that your friend risked his life to protect), while not protecting us from easier methods of attack...it is, plain and simply, security theater.


**: I'm not advocating that we stop trying - by using effective methods - to protect from the loss of a single airliner. I'm just saying that it is impossible to do so...and, as such, our efforts need to be used to protect against more catastrophic losses.
 
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Abraham Lincoln said:
At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
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We seem to be doing a damn good job of writing our destruction...Sigh.

There will always be risk, and there will always be people trying to destroy our way of life, and we will always take losses as a result of that. I just can't understand why the public as a whole cannot accept that. The "terrorists" cannot destroy America but they can most certainly scare us into destroying ourselves.
 
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jesse said:
We seem to be doing a damn good job of writing our destruction...Sigh.

There will always be risk, and there will always be people trying to destroy our way of life, and we will always take losses as a result of that. I just can't understand why the public as a whole cannot accept that. The "terrorists" cannot destroy America but they can most certainly scare us into destroying ourselves.
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Yes, I could not agree more. Well, except that I do think terrorists, even without our frightened complicity, could do serious, maybe fatal, damage to this nation. The threat remains acute. But your point is right on.

I just want to stress that it is important that people have a little humility about these things. Just because you do not know the reason behind a certain security protocol (e.g. the full body scanner) doesn't mean there isn't a reason. The fact that you read some diatribe on an Internet website should not be compelling to you. As is so commonly the case with these things, those who talk don't know, and those who know can't talk. I'll leave it at that.

But have people's experiences with the TSA really been that terrible? I don't fly that much in the States anymore; maybe a couple dozen times over the last few years. And they basically make me take off my belts and shoes and put my luggage through the x-ray machine. Recently I had to walk through one of the full body scanners and that didn't seem bad. It took like 15 seconds. I guess the lines to get through security can be long, but I've never missed a flight because of them. Once I got pulled out for random screening and the fellow patted me down and went through my luggage. It took maybe three minutes and he was polite. None of it bothers me. And I tend to be very attentive when civil liberties are concerned.
 
From my viewpoint, you're buddy should be more ****ed about the whole TSA situation than anybody. Guys like him selflessly do whatever is asked of them to protect the freedom and constitutional rights of all of us only to see them stripped from us by policies like these ineffective security procedures. You may not have ever been mistreated by a TSA screener but there are too many other citizens of this country that have to continue with the current process in my opinion.

Too many citizens of this country share your opinion and willingly sacrifice their constitutional rights under the guise of greater personal protection, when in reality the evidence does not point to substantially greater safety. The escaped convict that successfully got behind the security front and boarded a flight should have opened more eyes.
 
Tommy3 said:
Yes, I could not agree more. Well, except that I do think terrorists, even without our frightened complicity, could do serious, maybe fatal, damage to this nation. The threat remains acute. But your point is right on.

I just want to stress that it is important that people have a little humility about these things. Just because you do not know the reason behind a certain security protocol (e.g. the full body scanner) doesn't mean there isn't a reason. The fact that you read some diatribe on an Internet website should not be compelling to you. As is so commonly the case with these things, those who talk don't know, and those who know can't talk. I'll leave it at that.

But have people's experiences with the TSA really been that terrible? I don't fly that much in the States anymore; maybe a couple dozen times over the last few years. And they basically make me take off my belts and shoes and put my luggage through the x-ray machine. Recently I had to walk through one of the full body scanners and that didn't seem bad. It took like 15 seconds. I guess the lines to get through security can be long, but I've never missed a flight because of them. Once I got pulled out for random screening and the fellow patted me down and went through my luggage. It took maybe three minutes and he was polite. None of it bothers me. And I tend to be very attentive when civil liberties are concerned.
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None of it bothers you. That's awesome.

Do you think that there are some people who would feel quite violated by the pat downs and nude-o-scans?
 
Protecting America could have been done with out shedding one drop of American blood or any arms or legs.

When you make the price of attacks high enough the Arabic nations will police them selves.

We do have the weapons to do just that.

NSA is not about protecting America, it is about making you dependent upon the government.

Safety of flight belongs to the Pilot/Company rules. the government has no place in the equation, hold the airlines responsible for their passengers safety. and quit waisting our taxes running a government agency that can not do the job.
 
Tom, your friend is to be commended for his bravery in the face of adversity and for his sacrifice in the name of liberty.

That said, we are all entitled to our opinion - thats one of things those who served fought for.

I am all for security - that works. The TSA is just a mindless misguided agency who thinks that by doing what they do they improve security. They don't.

TSA works because of 20 people in blue standing around a checkpoint - its the deterrent that you might get caught - not the certainly that you will. So - we could go BACK to the type of security we had before and just keep the smurfs wandering the neighborhood doing nothing but what they do now - stand around.


What provides real security for commercial aviation is a locked and reinforced cockpit door with the knowledge that no one is going to be allowed to breach that door by the pax sitting up front. Thats why the threat has advanced to explosives.

I'll tell you something - I know an acquaintance who has a son who is significantly overweight with a 'dunlap' stomach. One day, at the airport, he realized he had his small leatherman inside his bag - so he has his son tuck it into his fold of skin [these are no brain surgeons btw - obviously] and they set up to go through the backscanner machine. My friends son gets the glow in the dark treatment and it fails to see the leatherman tucked into his belly fold - or so goes the story. And they travel happily ever after. Ok then. And this what you are defending.
 
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