Strange Squawk Code

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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I came across something different Friday for the first time. After having my student request Flight Following, ATC responded with the oddest squawk code ever.... 7724.

It struck both of us by surprise. Especially since we were squawking 1200 at the time. I even had my student ask ATC to repeat the code for clarification. ATC came back with a annoyed tone and told us "Yes, I want you to Sqauwk 7-7-2-4." So I had my student key in the code backwards to not cycle through 7700. I even took a picture because of the unique code.

So anyone ever had this happen?

I figure this is a normal code. Just have not been flying long enough to see it yet.

A fellow CFI told me that he thinks ATC is trying to throw us under the bus since they are getting fired anyway. Slap us with a false emergency violation.

http://instagram.com/p/YBNCNkoGbF/
0c519568a3b311e2ac9b22000a1fb864_7.jpg
 
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You've struck a pet peeve of mine. Yes, I've seen the code 7700 range before. But on my plane, like many out there, we have an outer knob for the first two digits and an inner knob for the last two digits.

My peeve is when we get a new squak code with the current last two digits on '00' and the FO spins the outer knob first. There's a chance the spin will land on 77, 76, or 75 resulting in a momentary f'ed up situation for me...the guy with his name on the flight plan.

A much better technique would be to enter the last two first OR put the thing in standby whilst you spin away. Then turn it back on.

In a post 9/11 world I don't know if anything would happen from a momentary 7500 squak, but I don't want to find out.
 
Captain said:
You've struck a pet peeve of mine. Yes, I've seen the code 7700 range before. But on my plane, like many out there, we have an outer knob for the first two digits and an inner knob for the last two digits.

My peeve is when we get a new squak code with the current last two digits on '00' and the FO spins the outer knob first. There's a chance the spin will land on 77, 76, or 75 resulting in a momentary f'ed up situation for me...the guy with his name on the flight plan.

A much better technique would be to enter the last two first OR put the thing in standby whilst you spin away. Then turn it back on.

In a post 9/11 world I don't know if anything would happen from a momentary 7500 squak, but I don't want to find out.
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I tell my students to roll the first dial backwards if your going from high to low. Like from 3535 to 1200. This prevents them from cycling the transponder through 7***.

Now if we are in the new Garmin aircraft you have to input the code as it reads. So I guess use your suggestion and put it in standby.
 
ARFlyer said:
I tell my students to roll the first dial backwards if your going from high to low. Like from 3535 to 1200. This prevents them from cycling the transponder through 7***.

Now if we are in the new Garmin aircraft you have to input the code as it reads. So I guess use your suggestion and put it in standby.
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The proper technique when changing codes on a transponder with knobs is to switch to Standby, change the code, and then go back to Alt. That way you don't transmit someone else's code or an emergency one on the way to your newly assigned code. Some of the newer transponders use buttons for code entry and they don't alter the transmitted code until you finish entering the new one.
 
gismo said:
Some of the newer transponders use buttons for code entry and they don't alter the transmitted code until you finish entering the new one.
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Yeah and then when you punch in the new numbers too fast or get hit by a bump of turbulence and type 3 instead of 2, you end up squawking some weird code anyway and have to type in the whole code again.
 
The good news is that if you accidently squawk 7600 or 7700, you can tell the controller your mistake and life goes on as before. OTOH, if you accidentally squawk 7500, there's no taking it back, and you will be met on landing no matter what you say.

"Ahh...Center, we just accidentally squawked 7500."
"Yes, sir, we know."
"I don't suppose it would do any good to tell you it was mistake."
"No, sir, it wouldn't."
 
gismo said:
The proper technique when changing codes on a transponder with knobs is to switch to Standby, change the code, and then go back to Alt. That way you don't transmit someone else's code or an emergency one on the way to your newly assigned code. Some of the newer transponders use buttons for code entry and they don't alter the transmitted code until you finish entering the new one.
Click to expand...

And this was my point. No need to jump in on my excessive 'peeves' simply because I started a popular 'peeve' thread.

Ron Levy said:
The good news is that if you accidently squawk 7600 or 7700, you can tell the controller your mistake and life goes on as before. OTOH, if you accidentally squawk 7500, there's no taking it back, and you will be met on landing no matter what you say.

"Ahh...Center, we just accidentally squawked 7500."
"Yes, sir, we know."
"I don't suppose it would do any good to tell you it was mistake."
"No, sir, it wouldn't."
Click to expand...

And this was the point of my peeve. Funny how nobodies jumping on Cap'n Ron for saying the same thing...

:rolleyes2:
 
Glad I read this thread. I had no idea ATC had such sensative recievers that they could pick up a momentary "7700" squawk. If you were spinning the knob wouldn't you be squawking 7700 for like a half a second tops? Does the ATC automatically receive some alert whenever anyone squawks a warning code?

I could see if you accidentally squawked a warning code for a long time, a visit from the local authorities may be justified but cycling through the knob and momentarily squawking warning code does not seem to justify such a response.

I'm really glad I have the push button style!
 
Like a few posters above me, I thought it took a few seconds for the transponder to send the new code, that even if you spin thru codes it doesn't broadcast until it "rests" on a code.

Can anyone with avionics knowledge clear this up for us?
 
jspilot said:
Glad I read this thread. I had no idea ATC had such sensative recievers that they could pick up a momentary "7700" squawk. If you were spinning the knob wouldn't you be squawking 7700 for like a half a second tops? Does the ATC automatically receive some alert whenever anyone squawks a warning code?

I could see if you accidentally squawked a warning code for a long time, a visit from the local authorities may be justified but cycling through the knob and momentarily squawking warning code does not seem to justify such a response.

I'm really glad I have the push button style!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I always found it funny that the procedure to change codes recommends going to standby first. I never do. First, like you said it's a split second that you might have had 7700 in the box. Odds of the interrogator picking it up would be slim. Second, if ATC does see the code and hear the alarm, most likely they won't care. I've seen 7700 momentarily a few times while on position and didn't both me in the least. It's like an MSAW alarm going off and they go off a lot during the course of the day. It's not a big deal, query the pilot, no emergency, no paperwork. The pilot didn't verbally declare and I had no reason to treat it as an emergency. I've said before, ATC isn't sky police, and if a pilots error doesn't affect separation, generally they don't care.
 
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Ron Levy said:
The good news is that if you accidently squawk 7600 or 7700, you can tell the controller your mistake and life goes on as before. OTOH, if you accidentally squawk 7500, there's no taking it back, and you will be met on landing no matter what you say.

"Ahh...Center, we just accidentally squawked 7500."
"Yes, sir, we know."
"I don't suppose it would do any good to tell you it was mistake."
"No, sir, it wouldn't."
Click to expand...

If you dial through 7600 or 7700 it's likely nothing will happen. Even if there was a radar hit on the code it would be just one momentary hit, the controller probably wouldn't notice what code it was or what aircraft generated it.
 
jspilot said:
Glad I read this thread. I had no idea ATC had such sensative recievers that they could pick up a momentary "7700" squawk. If you were spinning the knob wouldn't you be squawking 7700 for like a half a second tops?!
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Yes.

Does the ATC automatically receive some alert whenever anyone squawks a warning code?
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Yes, if the radar sweeps past the code while it's being squawked. As you say, if you're spinning the knob you may be on that code for about half a second at most. IIRC ARSR sweeps at 6 RPM, ASR about twice as fast, so the radar is probably pointed in another direction.

I could see if you accidentally squawked a warning code for a long time, a visit from the local authorities may be justified but cycling through the knob and momentarily squawking warning code does not seem to justify such a response.
Click to expand...

'Zackly.
 
roncachamp said:
If you dial through 7600 or 7700 it's likely nothing will happen. Even if there was a radar hit on the code it would be just one momentary hit, the controller probably wouldn't notice what code it was or what aircraft generated it.
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So what's the minimum number of hits on a 7500 code before the automatic alarms go off? My understanding was that it is one. Are you saying otherwise?
 
So what happens when they meet you upon landing after a 7500 oops, and you're the only one in the plane?
 
Ron Levy said:
Then I guess one sweep while you have 7500 in there even momentarily is enough to spoil your day, so y'all be careful spinning those knobs.
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As was explained in message #23, that is unlikely.
 
roncachamp said:
As was explained in message #23, that is unlikely.
Click to expand...

Steven if you got one "ping" of a 7500 code and then all subsequent sweeps were his normal assigned code, would you ask him "verify squawking 7500?"
 
Velocity173 said:
Steven if you got one "ping" of a 7500 code and then all subsequent sweeps were his normal assigned code, would you ask him "verify squawking 7500?"
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Nope. I'd just conclude the pilot dialed through 7500 on the way to whatever code I just assigned to him.
 
roncachamp said:
Yes.



Yes, if the radar sweeps past the code while it's being squawked. As you say, if you're spinning the knob you may be on that code for about half a second at most. IIRC ARSR sweeps at 6 RPM, ASR about twice as fast, so the radar is probably pointed in another direction.



'Zackly.
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If we're talking about 1 radar sweeping your aircraft I'd agree. Except there are usually many many radars sweeping and they, IIRC, are all tied into one another. The higher you go the more ping you...

This point is easily proved by looking at the little 'xmit' light on all the xponders I've ever used. The higher I go the faster that little guy flashes until it's basically a steady light.

With that in mind and the state of the world today I don't understand why it's so hard to:

A. Put it in standby, or
B. Dial the last two digits first negating a 7500 possibility, or
C. Enter the squak on the number pad and instantly change it (if avail).

I had this 'Ms. Thing' FO who wanted to make a point of this. For the week we flew we got a couple inflight squak changes. The first couple I simply turned the unit to standby when I heard ATC giving the code. That prompted a discussion in which she made it clear she thought I was being annal. Whatever, I'm the guy with his name on the flight plan was my position on that.

Then we take off VFR and get the IFR clearance enroute. This time I'm not quick enough on turning it to standby and sure enough she spins in the outer dial first and it spins all the way to '74'. We are now squaking 7400. One more little click and it would have been 7500 and that's a headache I don't need.

I re-emphasized my request to put it to standby or dial the inner knob first to which she took offense and keyed the mic in her whiny little girl voice and complained to ATC about it. "Center, do you receive a momentary squak when we change the dials"...to which they were like, "....ahhhh, what?"

So now I get to pick between looking stupid from her squaking 7500 or making a spectacle of us on the open freq.

I had a talk with her and pro-standards about that little inflight circus.
 
Captain said:
If we're talking about 1 radar sweeping your aircraft I'd agree. Except there are usually many many radars sweeping and they, IIRC, are all tied into one another. The higher you go the more ping you...
Click to expand...

The higher you go the more likely you are to receive your code while on the ground and keeping that same code until you're on the ground again.

This point is easily proved by looking at the little 'xmit' light on all the xponders I've ever used. The higher I go the faster that little guy flashes until it's basically a steady light.
Click to expand...

Even if every radar within range swept your aircraft in the same fraction of a second you were on one of the codes that generates an alarm they'd all get only one hit and the alarm is only generated while you're on that code. You can believe whatever you choose but the fact remains that this is just not an issue.
 
roncachamp said:
Nope. I'd just conclude the pilot dialed through 7500 on the way to whatever code I just assigned to him.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are automatic alarms triggered by the 7700/7600/7500 codes. If so, how do you deal with that? And what does 7110.65 say about it?
 
Ron Levy said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are automatic alarms triggered by the 7700/7600/7500 codes. If so, how do you deal with that? And what does 7110.65 say about it?
Click to expand...

There's nothing to deal with in this case. The alarm is only generated while the radar sees the code.
 
Ron Levy said:
The good news is that if you accidently squawk 7600 or 7700, you can tell the controller your mistake and life goes on as before. OTOH, if you accidentally squawk 7500, there's no taking it back, and you will be met on landing no matter what you say.

"Ahh...Center, we just accidentally squawked 7500."
"Yes, sir, we know."
"I don't suppose it would do any good to tell you it was mistake."
"No, sir, it wouldn't."
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
If you dial through 7600 or 7700 it's likely nothing will happen. Even if there was a radar hit on the code it would be just one momentary hit, the controller probably wouldn't notice what code it was or what aircraft generated it.
Click to expand...

Between these two post I thought you're position was even a momentary squak of 7500 could bring bad results. My thinking was you left 7500 out on your reply on purpose for this point.
 
Captain said:
Between these two post I thought you're position was even a momentary squak of 7500 could bring bad results. My thinking was you left 7500 out on your reply on purpose for this point.
Click to expand...

If you dial through 7500, 7600 or 7700 it's likely nothing will happen. Even if there was a radar hit on the code it would be just one momentary hit, the controller probably wouldn't notice what code it was or what aircraft generated it.

Happy now?
 
roncachamp said:
If you dial through 7500, 7600 or 7700 it's likely nothing will happen. Even if there was a radar hit on the code it would be just one momentary hit, the controller probably wouldn't notice what code it was or what aircraft generated it.

Happy now?
Click to expand...

See post 26. I'm not happy yet.
 
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