Straight in approach for student pilots?

Xscaliber said:
Just reminded me about the other day, holding short for landing traffic, a guy in the pattern announced his position and followed up with "gear down"... same procedure ...downwind...base and final, obviously his way of checking, interestingly I checked as well for him as he came in on short final....but I did resist keying the mike and confirming "affirmative gear down"
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I do verbalize it, even when in the airplane alone. I just don't verbalize it with my push to talk depressed. :)
I *may* have confirmed it for him. ;)
 
EdFred said:
I agree stating that "I am in the pattern everyone must fit themselves around ME" definitely puts one squarely in the selfish jerk column.

We all share the airspace we all have to give and take a little. Maybe you have to extend your downwind by 5 seconds, maybe someone else has to practice slow flight because your patterns are larger and slower than what they are used to (or capable of) doing. I'm going to have trouble sharing the pattern with a Cub. Or maybe that jerkface butthole doing straight ins is actually getting instrument current and according to the powers that be he has to fly it to minimums under simulated instrument conditions for it to count. It is not your pattern, nor is it mine. Give a little take a little.
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:yeahthat: Well put, Ed!!
 
Every now and then I'll do a straight in approach with a student, maybe one in every 10+ flights. I will only do them if the airport is totally absent of traffic as best as I can tell, and I describe or remind the student of all the caveats and disadvantages of straight-ins.

I once got chewed out by another pilot for doing so, who was watching us from the terminal building, not another airplane. Totally uncalled for IMO.

Eta: I should note that the two airports I instruct at, we can't overfly the airport because one has Class C a few hundred feet above TPA and the other one has frequent skydiving.
 
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A student needs to learn straight in approaches. Agreed starting with them may not be a good idea, but he's going to end up a towered field sometime and they're going to ask him to do one and yes he needs to have worked out how to set up his descent (and lower the gear, etc...) from that orientation rather than knowing he needs to pull power abeam the numbers onn downwind. He also needs to know how to do base entries.

If a convenient towered airport isn't around, there's little choice but to do these at an uncontrolled field. Hopefully, with the student and an instructor, they can be vigilant about other traffic.
 
For the love of humanity. My one and only point which seemed to get missed by NUMEROUS apparently smart people because they like to argue has NOTHING to do with anyone flying IFR approaches it has NOTHING to do with flying a straight in approach. Had only to do with the selfish jerks who say to themselves I can sneak in here by flying a "straight in" let the other guy make the adjustment so I can save myself some hobbs time. My word your like a bunch of high school girls around here. Reading way more into things than is there and thus my comment about missing my point. But by all means cackle on hens.
 
DFH65 said:
For the love of humanity. My one and only point which seemed to get missed by NUMEROUS apparently smart people because they like to argue has NOTHING to do with anyone flying IFR approaches it has NOTHING to do with flying a straight in approach. Had only to do with the selfish jerks who say to themselves I can sneak in here by flying a "straight in" let the other guy make the adjustment so I can save myself some hobbs time. My word your like a bunch of high school girls around here. Reading way more into things than is there and thus my comment about missing my point. But by all means cackle on hens.
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And how do YOU know that he's trying to sneak in to save Hobbs time? I couldn't give a **** about Hobbs time - because I don't have a Hobbs meter. I haven't rented in years. But when I've been flying 4+ hours, have to pee, and I'm straight in from 20 out, why do you get to judge whether I'm being a selfish jerk or not. You're the one that started with the straight in people are selfish jerk people. And if 'everyone' else has the problem, maybe everyone else isn't the problem, and it's a little closer to home.

And since I was probably in the air and headed to that airport long before you got to the airport, why should I have to alter MY plans for some nincompoop clogging up the pattern? (I doubt you fly 4 hours worth of pattern work at a time)

See how that works both ways?
 
I like the guys who say "never" to the straight in. Come fly with me to an airport that maybe sees an aircraft land once or twice a week...the only reason to not go straight in is if your path is perpendicular to the runway...

If it's a tricky layout with a hill in the way or something then maybe fly the upwind to look things over. Prolly figure most of it out by studying the chart and just confirm when ya arrive.

At the Minum Lodge, Bob did have us make a downwind pattern entry. The 45 was blocked by the side of a mountain. Similar approach at Big Creek...gotta love the pattern purists though...
 
Unless I am using a glide slope of some sort (VASI, VNAV, LPV, ILS) I make an effort to make at least one turn before landing. I can think of a few times I didn't do that, but making a base usually leaves me better off than making a long straight in with no guidance.

Clark1961 said:
I like the guys who say "never" to the straight in. Come fly with me to an airport that maybe sees an aircraft land once or twice a week...the only reason to not go straight in is if your path is perpendicular to the runway...

If it's a tricky layout with a hill in the way or something then maybe fly the upwind to look things over. Prolly figure most of it out by studying the chart and just confirm when ya arrive.

At the Minum Lodge, Bob did have us make a downwind pattern entry. The 45 was blocked by the side of a mountain. Similar approach at Big Creek...gotta love the pattern purists though...
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I would think airports that don't get much traffic are more in need of a flyover than anywhere else. Who knows what is on that grass runway or what kind of damage the last rain did to it. Obviously, some airports in the mountains you really don't get much of a choice because of terrain but overflying the field at a rarely used airport seems pretty important to me.
 
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If you want your student to get straight-in practice, call any non-busy tower about 10 miles downwind from the active runway, and odds are good you'll get a straight-in, without the hazards of doing same in an uncontrolled field.
Landing straight-in at an uncontrolled field is like crossing the street blindfolded. You'll make it across in one piece most of the time, but can't call yourself "safe".
 
Xscaliber said:
Just reminded me about the other day, holding short for landing traffic, a guy in the pattern announced his position and followed up with "gear down"... same procedure ...downwind...base and final, obviously his way of checking, interestingly I checked as well for him as he came in on short final....but I did resist keying the mike and confirming "affirmative gear down"
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It's an Air Force thing.
 
Yeah, at our nearby mixed-use field you'll keep getting Check Gear Down from the tower unless you voluntarily report gear down. I always found it amusing when flying a 172 there.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Unless I am using a glide slope of some sort (VASI, VNAV, LPV, ILS) I make an effort to make at least one turn before landing. I can think of a few times I didn't do that, but making a base usually leaves me better off than making a long straight in with no guidance.



I would think airports that don't get much traffic are more in need of a flyover than anywhere else. Who knows what is on that grass runway or what kind of damage the last rain did to it. Obviously, some airports in the mountains you really don't get much of a choice because of terrain but overflying the field at a rarely used airport seems pretty important to me.
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So far I haven't had a problem seeing the runway from final...
 
Clark1961 said:
So far I haven't had a problem seeing the runway from final...
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And the windsock?

I find I see it much more clearly from above. I should already know if an airport has non-standard traffic, but it's one more chance to be reminded by the segmented circle markings.

Again, I virtually always overfly non-towered airports before entering the pattern. I do think it enhances safety overall.

But part of that enhanced safety comes from being cognizant that other pilots may be doing all sorts of things - landing without a radio or with one tuned to the wrong frequency, coming straight in - announced or unannounced, practicing low approaches from practice instrument approaches, flying insanely wide patterns - possibly in the wrong direction, that sort of thing. Happens often enough that it's not worth getting upset over.

BTW, I literally cannot remember the last time someone flying a non-standard pattern has been a problem for me. So while alert for it, it's not the kind of thing I obsess over.
 
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FastEddieB said:
And the windsock?
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Yes. Do you guys have your eyes outside the cockpit? Do you pay attention to what the aircraft is doing so you know the wind? Have you encountered/delt with unreported conditions?

I understand some folks like a set routine. I also understand there are other ways to do things.
 
flyingron said:
Yeah, at our nearby mixed-use field you'll keep getting Check Gear Down from the tower unless you voluntarily report gear down. I always found it amusing when flying a 172 there.
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Air Force controllers, actually even FAA controllers too, required to say that for military aircraft, including helicopters. I was sent to Quonset RI during the controllers strike in 1981 and recall saying "check wheels down" to a RI Guard Huey and pilot responded, "skids down and welded". It was funny, but still was required on our part. If it saves one pilot from landing gear up it's worth it!
 
Does a parachute deployment count as a straight in approach? I need to make sure i log it correctly.
 
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