Stock Market thoughts (continued - no politics please!)

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FastEddieB, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In the US? HA!

    We can't even get people to wear masks or admit that Covid is a real disease.

    The government will always bail us out. And if not, we'll just elect people who give us free money.

    (sarcasm intended).
     
  2. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And manages to screw those of us who need to buy a new car because someone in a 2020 BMW 8-series managed to run a light and total the old one. Probably more damage to their car than ours was worth, but that's their problem as they accepted blame. Really short on inventory on some kinds of used vehicles around here (don't wanna take the depreciation hit on a new one).
     
  3. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Unless it gets extended, which is highly likely given unemployment numbers and election year pandering.
     
  4. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

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    ???
     
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  5. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Might not. Congressional dysfunction is reaching new levels of incompetence and partisan appeals to the base about how any compromise or working across the aisle is sacrilege and therefore deserves to be exiled from the party.

    Tim
     
  6. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Ouch.

    Banks are going to lend like crazy into this thing. Fed gives them free money AND we’ll definitely bail every single one of them out later, if it doesn’t work out for them.

    Sub prime car loans are the new hotness. LOL

    The “I need loan forgiveness because I bought a car I can’t afford” crowd, is all queued up for next year. LOL.
     
  7. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't borrow for a depreciating asset. Drives car sellers crazy because much of their profit is there.

    If I like a car and its in stock, and we can reach a reasonable price, I avoid the whole finance dance. I've walked over a $900 "documentation fee" before.
     
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  8. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Cleared for Takeoff

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    My annual taxes on the home I purchased for 135K are now 8k/yr, and have never been less than 6.5k/yr. Sooo....your statement is far from true for many of us re/ taxes and time spent at McDonald's. We did pay off our house as fast as we could, just for the peace of mind, but in hindsight it may NOT have been the best financial decision, although I'm still glad we did.
     
  9. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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  10. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Eh, my guess is that neither party wants to go on record as not giving one more round of "free" money right before the elections. However, the amount and which business get bailed out will certainly be points of contention. Even Trump alluded to a second payout that would be coming after July, not that he has the power to grant such a thing, but I'm sure they have it in the works.
     
  11. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    We were comparing property tax rates elsewhere on another more financial forum recently and the differences are impressive.

    Some of y’all sure pay a lot. I hope you get stellar services for that. Honestly.

    Your property taxes are many multiples of mine on 4 acres.

    I think I’d be asking for dinner at least before that. LOL
     
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  12. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    But what do they do there besides plow the roads? :rofl:. Actually, they did a pretty good job, at least on the roads I drove on.

    I benefit from longevity of family ownership here, but my taxes are still over twice as much as there. Property is worth twice as much too, even though there's no way that it should be. However, I'm lucky, I'm sure the property taxes would be be much worse if I was a new owner.
     
  13. Pugs

    Pugs Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It's all a bit of shell game. States need to do stuff and I've done a lot of analysis of places we want to retire to over the years and the differences in overall costs are less than you think. We're retiring to NH. Property taxes vary wildly all over the state and are generally higher than many states (although where we are looking about the same as where we are in MD). But NH has no income tax and no sales tax.
     
  14. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    Both parties have mentioned big bailout bills directed at infrastructure. I'm hoping one of them passes. My employer is in that line of work, and it would be a great boost to our 1200 employees.
     
  15. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Most states are fairly equal in terms of overall tax rate. Obviously some are a bit more extreme, but they're generally pretty close when you add up the typical tax burden between income, sales, and property taxes. The advantage to living in a low property tax state is normally recognized once retirement comes along and many of the larger purchases are finished, as well as a lower tax bracket for income.
     
  16. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Agreed. There’s games like that. Texas does similar and your analysis has to be on all of it.

    But there’s a few places where WOW you get hit with all of them for no significant increase in actual services. That’s all I was sayin.

    And sorry it wandered off of stock market topic.

    Taxes on investments is a whole ‘nother interesting deal. I seriously wish the Roth option was available to me in my 20s. Now it complicates my life. LOL. Heck I wish the HSAs were also. The kids have some nice deals if they choose to partake!

    But... being young and broke they often miss it. Or ignore us old farts who try to tell ‘em, like our old farts did. Haha.

    Quite a few of them buty into this weirdness that capitalism is going away also. Certain social media sites are littered with the totally useless phrase “late stage capitalism”. I always laugh at that one. If you refuse to play the game, expect a new non-late-stage capitalist to be making a lot of money off of you while you wait around for them to not be interested in selling you something. Hahaha!

    Every single personal finance mistake for the really far into that crowd is always, “Loan forgiveness! Loan forgiveness!” No. Pay your bill, kiddo. You signed the contract. Or file the bankruptcy and deal with the consequences. The game wasn’t a mystery or unavailable information to you. Sucks, I know. Been there, done that. Paid off my “stupid with zeros on the end”. :)
     
  17. ebetancourt

    ebetancourt Line Up and Wait

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    Although, I might give it a different definition, "Late Stage Capitalism" might be as good a description as any of where we are. The Fed is helping those with substantial equity ownership and screwing the 90% who don't have enough to really benefit. Poorly run companies are not allowed to fail. The government (Fed) is about to buy corporate bonds and there is discussion of its buying equities. None of that sounds like real (classic) capitalism to me.

    EDIT: A much better discussion of our situation today is available at
    : principles.com
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  18. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I do too, but I doubt I would have taken advantage of it. I want my tax break NOW, not when I'm 70. :D

    At least I had the foresight to invest in my 20s, which I'm happy about now.
     
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  19. airdale

    airdale Pattern Altitude

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    Yup. I never pay those. The F&I guys look like they've been hit with a 2x4 when I tell them. It apparently never happens.

    One fun one: F&I: "You'd lose this deal for $200?" Me: "That's your decision." He caved, knocked $200 of the price of the truck so his bosses wouldn't know that he failed to collect the "documentation" gouge.
     
  20. wrbix

    wrbix Pattern Altitude

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    ....thought we were discussing the Stock Market?

    in that vein, if you haven’t gotten out yet, now might be the time.
     
  21. denverd1

    denverd1 Pre-Flight

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    Yup!

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  22. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I used to play those games. I "helped" my wife when she wanted to buy a car a few years ago. I negotiated the price, then the doc fee.... After about twenty minutes of this; she speaks up and says.
    This is the bottom line. Here is what I will pay net. This is the car I want. Can you do it... They tried to get her to discuss the parts of the deal, she would just repeat. Here is the net I am willing to pay.
    F&I got a little frustrated, and she replied. Ok, bye and started to walk away. lmao, it was funny. The store manager stepped in at that point, and worked with her and then told the F&I guy what to do.

    Really rather amazing; then she repeated the whole deal for my son to buy his car.

    Tim
     
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  23. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Around here, $500 is typical.

    Last two used cars I’ve bought at dealers (2011 Ford Flex and 2006 Honda Ridgeline), I was ready to walk over the doc fee. In each case they would not budge on the doc fee, but dropped the price so that the “doc fee” just brought the price back up to the price we had agreed upon beforehand. Games people play.
     
  24. denverd1

    denverd1 Pre-Flight

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    Stocks anyone?

    Another 700 down today. Financials leading the drop.

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  25. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    It seems to me the market must be running on pure emotion. The prez sez "We're doing great. Its gonna be a V shape recovery." and the markets shoot up 1,000 points in a week. Then, reality sets in, and we realize 'da COVID' ain't going away any time soon. And, ----guess what?

    I'm just setting tight. Got my budget put away for a couple of years. And, we're ready to ride it out.
     
  26. denverd1

    denverd1 Pre-Flight

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    I was ready to deploy funds last week. Soooo glad I waited. Yea we're in for a long road IMO. Wait till more earnings come it. I think we'll begin seeing the real picture.

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  27. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    My wife kept insisting we keep a lot of cash. I fought her on this right up until Nov '16. Then, I didn't fight her anymore. Instead, we started putting a percentage of tax-deferred into fixed accounts, earning modest interest. And, we built up our taxable savings.

    We still had more than 70% of our total portfolio in stocks. So, we got a nice ride on the Trump train. But, when we saw what this COVID thing, along with the Saudi's and the Russians trying to corner the energy market, we cut our stock holdings back to 50%, paid off the mortgage and put the rest into cash. Big tax hit next year. But, uncle Sam will get his piece one way or another anyway.

    Now, we've discovered peer-lending investments. we've put a little bit of our 3-to-5 year bucket in these, earning about 8% average. Haven't gone whole hog yet. Because I want to see what the market downturn will do to the default rate on this type of lending.
     
  28. denverd1

    denverd1 Pre-Flight

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    Interesting for sure. Do you a preferred group you work with?

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  29. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    When we bought a truck a couple of month ago, my wife was swapping texts with the dealer while I was driving home from GA. This fee, that fee, add this, oops forgot that, on and on, back and forth... I finally told her to text "Bottom line - our trade plus a check for $XX and we drive away. You work out the numbers any way you like." Ten minutes later we had a reply. "You have a deal." We picked it up the next day.

    The BS gets tiresome.
     
  30. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I updated a software package for a car dealer many years ago. It took all the numbers, did all the calculations and printed the fill in the blanks on the contract (daisy wheel printer on multipart paper-pre laser days).

    The F&I person makes a bunch of commission on all that add on stuff. That’s why they fight so hard for it. And why I suspect they lower the price of the car rather than cut the fees.
     
  31. airdale

    airdale Pattern Altitude

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    Yes. People have a very unhealthy respect for numbers printed on paper. The first thing I do when the F&I guy slides the sheet over to me is to cross out the doc fee and change the total to reflect the cross-out. The absolutely predictable then happens -- every single time: "What are you doing?"

    Good job. One of the rules from Negotiating 101: "If you're not willing to leave the table you aren't negotiating; you are begging."
     
  32. Juliet Foxtrot

    Juliet Foxtrot Filing Flight Plan

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    I don't mind unemployment benefits. I don't at all understand why the government would add a premium of $600/wk over what a lot of people were making when they were actually going to work.
     
  33. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    I tried Prosper and Lending Club. I think I like Prosper's way of doing things a bit better. Lending Club's tech has been a little glitchey for me. I've only had money there for 6 months. But so far, I haven't seen any late payments from borrowers in either one. So, their screening and approval process must be pretty good.
     
  34. Juliet Foxtrot

    Juliet Foxtrot Filing Flight Plan

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    Just remember: The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
     
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  35. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    This is what I guess based on reading the news.
    because most unemployment benefits around the country are actually significantly below poverty levels, even below minimum wage. The goal of the program was to keep people spending money; so the $600 bump was a rough estimate based on the gap between benefits and real earnings.
    Then when the layoffs happened; there came the realization that the estimate was based a cross section of the economy, instead it was actually just the roughly bottom 40% of the income earners who lost jobs. The result, was a pay bump for many of them.

    Tim