Stinson => Inst trainer?

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gtmule

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gtmule
All,

Interested in slowly starting my Instrument rating in the not-too distant future. My current airplane is a Stinson 108 that is VERY VFR. I have a DG, AH, TC and VSI. I have ONE comm. That's it. I've been looking at various nav-comms and other possibilities for getting the airplane set up for limited IFR training (not in actual).

I recently found that the KNS80 RNAV receivers (and similar) can be had pretty cheaply. I don't really have a problem with my current single comm (with backup handheld) setup. Anybody know what all I'd need to get in addition to the KNS 80? I assume I'd need a VOR/LOC/GS indicator as well as antennas, but which ones? Is this a good solution for getting some instrument training? Looks like the terra trinav indicator is the only one I can find that's not WAY more than the KNS 80, am I missing something?

Other possibilities are the Terra Nav/COM/LOC/GS's or similar. How much of a disadvantage is not having DME?

Any other suggestions?
 
I fly an IFR C152 sometimes that has dual VOR and COMM, single GS. No (ifr) GPS and no DME.

To answer part of your question, it really sucks not having DME. If I could buy one thing for that panel, it would be a DME setup.

Honestly I don't know the costs for the equipment (used) but if you can fit it with dual VOR / NAV (single GS is ok) and dual COMM plus DME you'll be in good shape. I'm guessing all this old radio nav stuff can be found cheap these days now that gps is so prevalent.
 
The indicators for the KNS80 can be spendy. They work well with the Garmin GNS units, that's why they are never for sale with the KNS80s.
 
As a minimum, you need the instruments and equipment listed in 91.205(d). For the nav/comm radios, the absolute minimum is one VHF comm and one VOR/LOC/GS receiver since you must be able to do a precision approach, and that means ILS unless you spring for a WAAS GPS like a Garmin 430W. That said, the legal minimum may not be the practical minimum, especially as regards the nav radios. While I know I can do a partial panel single VOR hold at an intersection, it's not an easy task, and you may require extra time to learn how to do things like that with absolute minimum equipment. From a practical standpoint, I'd suggest dual comm and dual nav (with GS on one), even though I've trained people with less.

As for training with one comm and a KNS80, if the KNS80 included GS, it would be possible, and having the DME and VOR/DME RNAV capability would make it easier than just one VOR. I believe there are several Bendix/King CDI's which can be driven by the KNS80 -- your avionics shop can tell you for sure, and they're probably available on the used market.

One final point is instrument power sources. If your AI and HI are powered by venturis rather than a vacuum pump (something occasionally seen in aircraft of that vintage), you may find instrument flying made increasingly difficult by the delay in those gyros spinning up on takeoff.
 
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Your situation is a lot like mine, VFR PA28 with one comm radio and an old Narco MK16 NAV/COM w/GS that is a bit flakey at times. Localizer is off a little, it will line you up on the taxiway instead of the runway. On the Com side it doesn't seem to transmit too good.

The bad part is that it's not legal to repair these radio's anymore so the avionics shop says. I purchased a KNS80 as you did and haven't found an indicator for mine either yet. Looks like I may pick up an older KX 170B or 175B to replace the MK16. They aren't as pricey as all of the newer radios and still do a good job. I have a friend that has a Piper Arrow that had (2) KX170's and the second time he had trouble with his digital radios he re-installed the old 170's and has yet to have anymore problems.
 
Bwing96 said:
Your situation is a lot like mine, VFR PA28 with one comm radio and an old Narco MK16 NAV/COM w/GS that is a bit flakey at times. Localizer is off a little, it will line you up on the taxiway instead of the runway. On the Com side it doesn't seem to transmit too good.

The bad part is that it's not legal to repair these radio's anymore so the avionics shop says.
Click to expand...
It's not even legal to use that Narco MK16 any more -- and has been since 1997. Your transmitter problems are the issue, and every time you key the mike you're breaking FCC rules. See here for the FCC statement on this, and if you click on that list there, you'll see your MK16 on it under National Aircraft Radio Corp. You need to replace that MK16 with a legal transmitter sooner rather than later.
 
You could get to "most basic" by adding this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Narco-Nav-1...ear&vxp=mtr&hash=item20c00340aa#ht_500wt_1190

Me, I'd prefer to have either DME or IFR-Cert GPS as well. Practical matters, I would not enjoy doing IFR in the system today without at least DME-equivalent, and an IFR-Cert GPS gives you that, plus the ability to navigate direct-to, which is expected in the IFR system no matter how you file.

You could get the NAV122 like linked-to above (or its later, electronic-display equivalent if one pops up for sale), and a Garmin GNS300XL - but by the time you've spent he samolians required to install and certify, you might just wish you'd gotten a GNS430 anyway. The 300XL is IFR-Cert (if properly installed), and gives you that second COM as well.

You get a 430, and you get the second NAV and the second COM.

In either case, of course, you will need to get a NAV indicator (GI106 or equivalent).

I keep thinking that there will be a "flood" of less-costly Garmin 430s on the market, but that is not happening.

Of course, when it was new, the Bonanza was marketed as having a "complete IFR panel" because it had a two-way radio (so you could hear the 4-course range), a sensitive altimeter and a turn-and-bank indicator. (!)
 
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