Stephen Hawking Dies

It's also rather ironic, because although Hawking was an atheist, he was also an early proponent of the Big Bang theory, even before Penzias and Wilson discovered the CMB. (The BBT, of course, has been also used by some creationists to bolster their arguments for the existence of a Creator.)
Well isn't it interesting that the Creation stories are pretty close to the actual order of development (narrative timeline notwithstanding) and were told thousands of years before Hubble or people even knew what stars and planets are.
 
Well isn't it interesting that the Creation stories are pretty close to the actual order of development (narrative timeline notwithstanding) and were told thousands of years before Hubble or people even knew what stars and planets are.
Yeah at this rate the lock is coming soon... so I'm not gonna go there. Suffice it to say that I agree that it's interesting, but... well... I don't dare say any more.
 
True story. I'd love to see what the world would be like if we treated physicists/scientists/etc. with the same adoration and compensation that pro-athletes get. We'd have solved all sorts of the universe's questions by now!
We kind of tried that, and it bombed. Not the celebrity status thing, but the elevating of science to a religious type of hope. Lots a dark things followed last century when too much hope and trust was put into science. Scientist are smart and talented but they are still just people and they can make grave errors. That’s not to mention the limits of what kind of questions science can answer. Hawking’s predictions and outlook got kookier and kookier over the years. https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j0i22i10i30j0i22i30j33i160j33i21.JkLyJue2aqM=

I don’t want people like that to have the power to act unrestrained on their beliefs, anymore that Steingar wants Oral Roberts making all the calls. Athletes get paid a lot but they are mostly harmless because people know that they just play a game. No one wants Shaq or Dennis Rodman making decisions for them, but they don’t mind paying to watch them play ball.
 
Of course scientists can make grave errors. And they can open themselves up to accusations of political bias (in some cases well-deserved) by prematurely releasing half-baked results to the press and by engaging in a little data-spinning (a la Michael Mann's hockey stick graph). Nevertheless the public ignores warnings from the scientific community at their own peril, and the contempt for science that we see in some politicians today (and their popularity) is another reason I fear for the future of this country.
 
Nevertheless the public ignores warnings from the scientific community at their own peril,
The public ignores science to the extent that they stray from their lane. Politics and scare tactics diminish their credibility. Allowing Al Gore (and others like him) to be a spokesman for anything science related shuts people’s ears. The continual doomsday prophesies have numbed the public to their warnings. How many bird flu, West Nile type scares have we had that resulted in nothing? Every year there’s a new epidemic that we should all fear. Nutritionist seem to change sides every ten years about what is killing us, when common sense has proved to be the best guide all along. Over time, you just quit worrying about it. If science stays in its lane, knows its limits, and is honest about its motivations, people will indeed heed what it has to offer.
 
Just got caught up on this thread. Religion/Politics is not to be discussed. Let's please just remember the man for his greatness and not use his memory for division.
 
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The irony in that is that, had it not been for the ALS, Hawking probably would not have been nearly as well known nor his writing as popular. How many other physicists can the average layman name? Even Nobel winners (which Hawking wasn't) aren't public figures.

The only one I'm very familiar with is Neil deGrasse Tyson...that man rocks!

I'd love to see what the world would be like if we treated physicists/scientists/etc. with the same adoration and compensation that pro-athletes get.

Tangentially:

March Madness Statistics:

Money bet = $10 billion
Money lost due to worker productivity decline = $2.5 billion
Money paid to athletes = $0
 
Religion/Politics is not to be discussed. Let's please just remember the man for his greatness and not use his memory for division.

Was he great or just famous?

That question will make some angry but even though I was impressed with how he persevered with a disease, there have been many other math giants who’s work has had bigger practical applications that made other’s lives measurably better.

It’s hard to pick on him. He was interesting and tough as hell. But I tend toward not idolizing anyone at all, and less interested in stuff that doesn’t have practical impact. Just me I guess.
 
I haven't seen this mentioned but admittedly haven't read every post in this thread. This was tweeted by another physicist (I think):

"Stephen Hawking was born January 8, 1942, on the 300th anniversary of Galileo's death. He died today, March 14th, on the anniversary of Einstein's birth. Time is circular - no beginning, no end."


And, of course, it was also Pi Day
 
But I tend toward not idolizing anyone at all, and less interested in stuff that doesn’t have practical impact. Just me I guess.
Surely no one thought that NASA going to the moon would have a practical impact on many of us, but the innovations that are a direct result of those missions most definitely do impact us right now. My point is... it might not be today that it helps us, but maybe next century when we're exploring new technologies on the boundaries of physics that his research and insight most definitely does apply practically.
 
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The ironic thing is he really wasn't the best scientist, or even the best physicist for that matter. He never received the Nobel Prize, for example. I bet none of you could name those who did (without a reference to Wikipedia or some other source).
 
We kind of tried that, and it bombed. Not the celebrity status thing, but the elevating of science to a religious type of hope. Lots a dark things followed last century when too much hope and trust was put into science. Scientist are smart and talented but they are still just people and they can make grave errors. That’s not to mention the limits of what kind of questions science can answer. Hawking’s predictions and outlook got kookier and kookier over the years. https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j0i22i10i30j0i22i30j33i160j33i21.JkLyJue2aqM=

I don’t want people like that to have the power to act unrestrained on their beliefs, anymore that Steingar wants Oral Roberts making all the calls. Athletes get paid a lot but they are mostly harmless because people know that they just play a game. No one wants Shaq or Dennis Rodman making decisions for them, but they don’t mind paying to watch them play ball.

I was thinking more along the lines of having children (and adults) using science/math heroes as a driver to dig into their own educations. Tons of kids strive to be better in sports so that they can become the next Jordan, Woods, or Jeter. If that same passion was applied to education you’d see a lot of breakthroughs later on just due to the sheer volume of minds attacking problems.

No doubt that any profession/ideology unrestrained can result in catastrophic results.


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The ironic thing is he really wasn't the best scientist, or even the best physicist for that matter. He never received the Nobel Prize, for example. I bet none of you could name those who did (without a reference to Wikipedia or some other source).


True. His (losing) bets with Higgs and with Preskill are good examples. Higgs complained that Hawking's celebrity status resulted in unwarranted credibility.
 
Surely no one thought that NASA going to the moon would have a practical impact on many of us, but the innovations that are a direct result of those missions most definitely do impact us right now. My point is... it might not be today that is helps us, but maybe next century when we're exploring new technologies on the boundaries of physics that his research and insight most definitely does apply practically.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the manned programs are not where innovations are done and boundaries are pushed in space flight. The huge risks we took with humans on board in the past were driven by a Cold War that had everyone thinking the whole world was headed for a nuclear fireball, really.

But in any sane reason to send humans to space, the unmanned systems are where the new tech is normally tested. Even back then, the Titan and Atlas programs for blowing up the planet led the way and people crossed their fingers that Saturn wouldn’t kill the spam in a can but based the tech on the ICBM programs.

Most of the space program has been about blowing other humans up and spying on the ones we think are going to blow us up. The things that actually made a difference in day to day lives were communications satellites mostly.

Humans in space is highly inspiring but generally a huge PITA from an engineering standpoint. Keeping spam alive is hard. The most inspiring stories are dumb stuff like a docking gone wrong with a bad thruster and two guys trying like hell to get control of it before they passed out, totally unnecessary if the humans aren’t aboard, just disconnect and call it a day. No G force limits other than ripping the spacecraft apart and making space junk out of them.

Same with inspiring events on the ground, we all know the famous “SCE to Aux” call from John Aaron but we must wonder why we didn’t think an ionized smoke trail and a pointy metal thing would NOT be hit by lighting in the most lightning prolific State in the Union. Haha.

Most of what we find inspiring is that humans are continual morons and still managed to keep MOST of the astronauts alive. Minus a little over a dozen.

Probably the most amazing human space program event thus far is the Hubble repair mission, driven by one enormous screw up, and Story Musgrave’s role can’t be up-played enough. That man nearly singlehandedly through sheer persistence made sure that satellite was fixed.

The other amazing work is the simplicity and robustness of the Russian stuff. Still using Soyuz today. If you can’t afford bling, you figure out how to keep the spam alive in a very simple can. For the most part. They killed a few too.

Anyway... most of the practical stuff didn’t come from landing on the moon. Inspiration came from that, in a specific time in history when we wanted to believe we were better at space than the other people who we thought wanted to blow us all up. Many joke that we got Velcro but it was around prior to manned space flight. :) And then there’s the stupid “space pen” crap... LOL.

Seeing people given a nearly impossible task accomplish it with huge risks and deadly consequences is worth the price of the ticket to watch maybe. It was awfully expensive.

Shuttle was my inspiration as a kid. As I got older and read up on it, the reasons it even existed were completely asinine. It was fully destined to kill people and it did. Still an impressive but ultimately deadly machine.
 
The ironic thing is he really wasn't the best scientist, or even the best physicist for that matter. He never received the Nobel Prize, for example. I bet none of you could name those who did (without a reference to Wikipedia or some other source).

I can name a few, but Euler still kicks all their butts for sheer willpower to solve crazy stuff for no reason other than to work on it. :)
 
I was thinking more along the lines of having children (and adults) using science/math heroes as a driver to dig into their own educations.
Gotcha, that makes sense.

Those kids are out there, but they usually get called dorks and other names. Little do the cool kids know that the nerds will rule the world! My high school is kind of testament to that.
 
Gotcha, that makes sense.

Those kids are out there, but they usually get called dorks and other names. Little do the cool kids know that the nerds will rule the world! My high school is kind of testament to that.

The TV show Big Bang Theory has probably done more than anything else to make geekiness socially acceptable.
 
The TV show Big Bang Theory has probably done more than anything else to make geekiness socially acceptable.
Yeah, I’m dating myself. I haven’t watched a regular TV show in 20 years, things have definitely changed. I’m a bit out of touch that way. But I have noticed that wimpy is cool, I didn’t know smart was cool too.
 
Sorry @dell30rb. Quoted the wrong post when I was in a hurry.

I was at the eyeglasses place having a Hubble moment. Haha. They told me I had to come in and pick less cool frames because my old man eyeballs need progressives that can’t be put in those frames. Hahahaha.

I don’t think I’ll need to call in Story Musgrave and special tools and methods to fix this one though. :)

Just had to pick uglier frames. Argh!!!! Get off my lawn!!!
 
Yeah, I’m dating myself. I haven’t watched a regular TV show in 20 years, things have definitely changed. I’m a bit out of touch that way. But I have noticed that wimpy is cool, I didn’t know smart was cool too.
Last thing I watched regularly was Burn Notice. Some of that stuff could come in handy.
 
I think Elon Musk is playing a big role in that. He's one badass dude!

He’s a narcissist with a lot of good staff and enough charisma to get other people to pay for his mistakes.

Not kidding. Not impressed with him at all.

The whole train in a tunnel thing where he exploits the young engineering students for more marketing to get government funding someday for his train toys is disgraceful.

The car thing is looking more and more disgraceful too, with the majority of the government money going to build the race car version of his toys for his rich friends and massive losses coming and production problems forming on the “everyday person” version of the cars now that he’s leveraged his way into the car biz with taxpayer money.

As he wanders off to go do something else. You don’t see him doing big press conferences for the cheap cars. He knows those would turn into some really hard questions and a PR disaster.

Quick, let’s go play with the rockets! They’re cooler and distract from the messes being made in the other businesses that he’s not addressing.
 
The ironic thing is he really wasn't the best scientist, or even the best physicist for that matter. He never received the Nobel Prize, for example. I bet none of you could name those who did (without a reference to Wikipedia or some other source).
I can't name a lot of them. But it's kind of hard to forget the Obama one.
 
I don't see the problem here. That's freaking awesome!

Integrity and character aren’t much valued these days, it’s true. Just fame.

Which leads back to the question about Hawking... great, or just famous?

Musk isn’t in the same league as Kelly Johnson.

Yeah, ultimately another guy who got the taxpayer to pay for his toys, but did it all in secret where nobody could see, so a notch up in the character scale.
 
I can't name a lot of them. But it's kind of hard to forget the Obama one.


Who could possibly claim he didn't do a damned thing to deserve it?
 
Integrity and character aren’t much valued these days, it’s true. Just fame.

Which leads back to the question about Hawking... great, or just famous?

Musk isn’t in the same league as Kelly Johnson.

Yeah, ultimately another guy who got the taxpayer to pay for his toys, but did it all in secret where nobody could see, so a notch up in the character scale.
Amazing what you can do with an unlimited black budget and no interference from the bosses.
 
Which leads back to the question about Hawking... great, or just famous?


Great in the early part of his career. His proof of a singularity as the beginning of the universe and Hawking radiation were both extremely significant.

In the latter years, I think he was more famous than great. But who am I to say?
 
Amazing what you can do with an unlimited black budget and no interference from the bosses.

Yup. Musk couldn’t quite get that deal so he went with non-black budget and obfuscation via financing, as well as a screaming deal leasing old Cold War launch facilities. Almost as good in the modern era.

Only folks I know working off of likely black budgets also aren’t exactly hurting these days, but they’re not building airplanes much, they’re building satellites and data centers. I’m sure there’s another Johnson somewhere but we’ll never hear about his or her exploits until we’re really old, if then.

And yes. I consider the Cape just another Cold War launch facility. It wouldn’t exist without the Red Scare.

Of course the politicians are still trying to keep that one going today too. Russians Russians Russians! Marsha Marsha Marsha!
 
All this discussion of geniuses and “we” as a society just dropped another bridge on some poor unsuspecting people in Miami. LOL. Sigh.

Must be a utopia around here somewhere in all this brilliance. Maybe it’s in my seat cushions of my couch? :)
 
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