Step up from a Cessna 172

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spcalan1

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SpcAlan1
I am thinking of purchasing/partnership of an airplane.. but where to begin ?

It doesn't make too much sense to buy a Cessna 172, when I can rent or fly the CAP 172...

This is what I have looked at ( that is available )...

1969 Mooney 180hp
1958 Comanche 250hp

I like the idea of a complex airplane.

What did everyone move up to after training and 150tt ?

Mission :
Mostly 1-2 passengers.
 
What's your range/speed/average leg length need? Do you have a budget in mind?
 
I bought a Mooney after I got my private. You can get a decent Mooney M20C that's within your budget. The speed and range match your criteria as well. Whatever you decide to purchase, ensure it has the avionics you want from the beginning. It'll be more expensive to add it later and you won't get your money back if you decide to sell it.
 
So what would be a decent complex airplane ?
Mooney ?
What Piper Models ?
Cessna ?
 
Any Mooney model would work. Piper Arrow's are complex as well (among other models). "Decent" is relative to your budget and mission. Have you factored in maintenance, fuel, insurance, hangar, etc. into your budget?
 
How squashed together do your passengers like to be? If they like intimacy get the Mooney. If you don't like riding shoulder pressed against shoulder get a Comanche.

I have <---------this one for sale (a '58), with tip tanks, and most everything except autopilot.
 
I've seen 20% equity shares in nicely-equipped Arrows offered at around $12k, but an Arrow isn't all that much faster than a 172. I have noticed that instrument ratings seem to accompany partnerships in more capable aircraft.
 
The Cessna TR182 is what I stepped up to from my C172. The RG combined with the turbo and built-in ox system make it very fast for a Cessna. I cruise at 162 KTAS at 10k to 12k feet like clockwork. I carry myself, my wife, my kids, 50 lbs of bags, 30 lbs of "stuff" and full fuel. I can fly for 5 hours with IFR/night reserves at the power setting required to achieve 162 KTAS. That means I could fly from Denver to Houston non-stop if we had the bladders for it.

The folding gear makes a big difference in drag and enables better efficiency in flight with the trade-off of higher insurance (mine is $1400/yr for a 375-hr pilot with 150 in type. It was $1700/yr the first year. Hull value is ~$110k for mine) and somewhat higher maintenance. Mine was rebuilt by a previous owner so that was baked into the purchase price.

If I want to go even faster or get above wx I can climb as high as FL200, which I have done. It is a hike to get there, but once there you can get 175 KTAS (no more than 120-125 KIAS though - so temps must be monitored) in cruise and much more on initial descent. I regularly see over 200 KGS on initial descent from up high with no more than 160 KIAS (179 is Vne). That is fun.

And it is a Cessna so everyone can work on it, STCs abound, the cockpit and systems will be familiar to a 172 driver. Just have to learn the new stuff: rudder trim (easy), constant-speed prop, gear and cowl flaps. Not that big a deal.

If you do get a complex airplane, expect people to ask you to lease it back to the nearest flight school. The 10-hours of complex required for the commercial ticket have become a real problem since practically no one makes RGs any longer.
 
You have a current Form 5. Check out on a CAP 182 or 206 and see how you like it.

I can't imagine flying standard 3-person crews in a 172. Ouch. We have trouble fitting three adults in the 182 (that G1000 is a heavy SOB, and the CAP radio and Becker don't help).

Using the CAP 172 is fine as long as every passenger you ever want to take is a CAP member. Flight release doesn't go so well otherwise.

IMO, complex by itself is overrated. Extra altitude and speed is nice, but there are other ways to get that.
 
Between those two Id take the PA24.

For your 200kts, that number is hard to touch without $$$.

Look at glassairs
 
I went with an arrow,the Comanche is also a nice complex aircraft. The arrow is a very forgiving aircraft.
 
I'm trying to remember if you have an IR or not -- you're not going to find too many insurers willing to write a policy on a HP/complex single for someone without an instrument rating unless the premium gets jacked up a bunch. In that regard, the non-HP Mooney might be a better first step.
 
You will best served by flying in a 201 mooney, a Comanche higher horsepower, etc. best way to find out is to ride in each. Going from a 172 to a mooney is like jumping into a porsche 911 from a Ford Focus. I have always liked Mooneys ( super 21 and a 201) and have flown them a lot. So I'm prejudiced. Bonanzas are also great airplanes. I rarely carried more than one passenger so the mooney was my choice, plus it's fast, easy to fly, good looking. ( I was never "squished" in a mooney. I'm 6 feet, 195 lbs. two people, no problem. But then, I'm not " squished" in a porsche either.
 
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Does the small increase in speed of an RG offset the maintenance and insurance of the RG vs. a similar fixed gear model?
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm trying to remember if you have an IR or not -- you're not going to find too many insurers willing to write a policy on a HP/complex single for someone without an instrument rating unless the premium gets jacked up a bunch. In that regard, the non-HP Mooney might be a better first step.
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Mine did.

I was at about $1700/yr at first... $110k hull and I had <200 hrs with a whopping 9 complex and < 20 HP w/ no IR at the time. I am down to $1400/yr now that I have about 400 TT, 160 complex and an IR. Didn't drop as much as I'd hoped but it did drop.

Maybe those premiums are jacked up... I have nothing against which to compare. But $110/mo doesn't seem too bad.
 
petrolero said:
Mine did.

I was at about $1700/yr at first... $110k hull and I had <200 hrs with a whopping 9 complex and < 20 HP w/ no IR at the time. I am down to $1400/yr now that I have about 400 TT, 160 complex and an IR. Didn't drop as much as I'd hoped but it did drop.

Maybe those premiums are jacked up... I have nothing against which to compare. But $110/mo doesn't seem too bad.
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110k for a retract 182? For that kind of change, if you want waddle gear why not a 210.

Yeah I missed the under 200kts, just get a PA24, pick your HP flavor depending on your cash to burn per hr, great planes and easy to maintain if hire smart abou it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Does the small increase in speed of an RG offset the maintenance and insurance of the RG vs. a similar fixed gear model?
Click to expand...

I've got a johnson bar mooney. hasn't been a huge maintenance issue yet (knock on wood x10). Going from a 180hp cherokee to 180hp mooney, I gained 40 knots. I would expect 20+ knots depending on which RG plane. That's huge when you're flying a 110 knot plane into a 30 knot headwind.
 
A lot depends on what you buy originally. If you buy " a real steal" you may find out it was not a steal at all but a costly mistake. I was burned on a seemingly very nice cessna 195 that was " a real deal". It proved costly even after an extensive prebuy. After that I decided to buy the best example of what I could afford. It always paid off. Usually broke even when sold it. Mooneys are becoming ancient and like many other makes, require very careful inspections.
 
I bought my Mooney the month after my PPL checkride.

Whatever you buy, get an inspection by a knowledgable soul who has NOY been involved with the particular plane you're looking at.

For all things Mooney, visit www.MooneySpace.com and / or www.mooneypilots.com

Happy hunting!
 
rbridges said:
I've got a johnson bar mooney. hasn't been a huge maintenance issue yet (knock on wood x10). Going from a 180hp cherokee to 180hp mooney, I gained 40 knots. I would expect 20+ knots depending on which RG plane. That's huge when you're flying a 110 knot plane into a 30 knot headwind.
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I have the Johnson bar in my Mooney as well. Maintenance on the gear is a non-issue. Very easy to use.
 
Not a complex but a nice 182 would just about fit your mission, and the transition wouldnt be too bad coming from a 172
 
Ryanb said:
Not a complex but a nice 182 would just about fit your mission, and the transition wouldnt be too bad coming from a 172
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182 is great choice but finding a 182, let alone a nice one, is probably not going to happen in his price range.
 
rbridges said:
182 is great choice but finding a 182, let alone a nice one, is probably not going to happen in his price range.
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Lots of 182s in his price range. Mid to late 60's and earlier will be in his price range.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm trying to remember if you have an IR or not -- you're not going to find too many insurers willing to write a policy on a HP/complex single for someone without an instrument rating unless the premium gets jacked up a bunch. In that regard, the non-HP Mooney might be a better first step.
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Nope. Rates run About $1600 per year with 100hrs TT 0 Complex and Zero HP time on $75K hull, less hull value, the lower the premium will be. Several will do it. call AOPA. Insurance is a non factor.
 
James331 said:
110k for a retract 182? For that kind of change, if you want waddle gear why not a 210.

Yeah I missed the under 200kts, just get a PA24, pick your HP flavor depending on your cash to burn per hr, great planes and easy to maintain if hire smart abou it.
Click to expand...

Spare me the armchair second guessing. I studied the type for months and months and I worked with a broker as well. 110k was a fantastic price for what I got.
 
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