Stearman rides at Gaston's?

Diana

Diana

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
6,163
Location
Southwest MO
Display Name
Display name:
Diana
Someone contacted me, asking about the feasibility of their selling rides in a Stearman at the Gaston's fly-in. I'm waiting for their response to my questions (like prices), and said I'd check with y'all about your interest level in paying for a ride in a Stearman. I'll post their rates when I hear back.

In the meantime, would anyone be interested? I know I would, especially if I could get my hand on the stick, or roll it, or loop it, or spin it, or twirl it.
 
Possibly--depends on price.
 
I'm probably somewhere between Jesse and Greg
 
What Greg said.
 
Yeah, I'm not too particularly excited about someone there charging for rides in a commercial fashion either...Gastons might not be cool with that either....
 
Seeing as how Viveca and I have a low probability of attending this year I don't think we get a vote. Nevertheless, I'm with Greg.

Stearman's are cool but really not that different than the other planes people bring, I'd really hate to see us charging each other for rides.

Also, I wonder if he could withstand a ramp check for that kind of commercial venture.

Joe
 
It would be neat getting to go up. I'd be remiss if I didn't express concern about this endeavor pretty much being 180 out of phase with how the weekend normally plays out. Offer to pay for fuel for those that take you up, absolutely.
 
While flying a Stearman would be fun, I think it would change the nature of the event if we were to start charging for rides. If he wants to bring it and just give rides for the fun of it, I say bring it on!
 
gprellwitz said:
While flying a Stearman would be fun, I think it would change the nature of the event if we were to start charging for rides. If he wants to bring it and just give rides for the fun of it, I say bring it on!
Click to expand...

I will have to vote like Grant. That would have been like Chip charging for rides in the Extra and Diana charging for rides in the Citabria. This is about friends having fun with friends, not about making a buck.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I don't think it falls under 135. Besides, I am more or less asking.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure either but I think there are issues with experimental for hire. Aren't the Stearman's ex-military thus using an experimental airworthiness cert?

Joe
 
If this guy is rated and equipped to charge for rides and shows up at any airport in America, he should be allowed to operate, you have a choice, ride, or no.
 
Areeda said:
I'm not sure either but I think there are issues with experimental for hire. Aren't the Stearman's ex-military thus using an experimental airworthiness cert?

Joe
Click to expand...

No Joe, all that are flying have a normal airworthiness certificate unless they were modified to spray crops. it happened long before the rule on warbirds were thought of.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I don't think it falls under 135. Besides, I am more or less asking.
Click to expand...

If a pilot owns an aicraft and charges for flight instruction is that a 135 operation? Say no, but they do have to have a 100 hours inspections.
 
barney said:
Maybe this?

§ 91.147 Passenger carrying flights for compensation or hire.

Each Operator conducting passenger-carrying flights for compensation or hire must meet the following requirements unless all flights are conducted under §91.146.

(a) For the purposes of this section and for drug and alcohol testing, Operator means any person conducting nonstop passenger-carrying flights in an airplane or helicopter for compensation or hire in accordance with §§119.1(e)(2), 135.1(a)(5), or 121.1(d), of this chapter that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport.

(b) An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

(c) Each application for a Letter of Authorization must include the following information:

(1) Name of Operator, agent, and any d/b/a (doing-business-as) under which that Operator does business;

(2) Principal business address and mailing address;

(3) Principal place of business (if different from business address);

(4) Name of person responsible for management of the business;

(5) Name of person responsible for aircraft maintenance;

(6) Type of aircraft, registration number(s), and make/model/series; and

(7) An Antidrug and Alcohol Misuse Prevention Program registration.

(d) The Operator must register and implement its drug and alcohol testing programs in accordance with part 121, appendices I and J, of this chapter.

(e) The Operator must comply with the provisions of the Letter of Authorization received.
Click to expand...

We used to know this rule as "Owner operator / Airtaxi "

It is not a part 135 operation. all requirements are in the "letter of Authorization".
 
Tom-D said:
If this guy is rated and equipped to charge for rides and shows up at any airport in America, he should be allowed to operate, you have a choice, ride, or no.
Click to expand...

This is a private airport and they have a choice who is there. I'm not sure that I would encourage someone show up there and start offering rides in a commercial manner without running it by the Gastons folks. Even then, it is slightly inappropriate for our event.
 
I'm with Greg.
 
I'm sending the Stearman pilot a link to this thread and the one on the Purple Board, and he/she can make a determination based on your input. Whoever it is, I hope they come join us, whether they sell rides or not, and I hope that they do well in their aviation business.
 
I guess I just like to try to support an aviation buisness. I like to see these people succeed. I'm assuming that this guy just don't own a cool airplane but it trying to make a business out of it. I'm also assuming that he has all his paperwork in order with the FAA and that Gastons would be cool with it. If that's true, I'm cool with it.
 
jesse said:
This is a private airport and they have a choice who is there. I'm not sure that I would encourage someone show up there and start offering rides in a commercial manner without running it by the Gastons folks. Even then, it is slightly inappropriate for our event.
Click to expand...

two questions

1. Does every thing going on at Gastons that weekend required to be a part of your event?

2 Is Gastons is a privately owned public use airport, Or are you required to get prior use permit before you land? or is it simply open to al who land there?

If it is open to the public, that includes this private operator.

Having some one selling rides in a cool old aircraft would be an attraction to the public, and the more folks on the field means more business for Gastons.

I see this as a win win situation, good for the stearman guy, good for Gastons, and good for your event, if you choose go for a ride.

This isn't like every one attending must pay for his partisipation.
 
Tom-D said:
two questions

1. Does every thing going on at Gastons that weekend required to be a part of your event?
Click to expand...
Nope...and this is my point exactly. This is a business and we're a small part of their operation.

Tom-D said:
2 Is Gastons is a privately owned public use airport, Or are you required to get prior use permit before you land? or is it simply open to al who land there?
Click to expand...
Privately owned, open to the public.

Tom-D said:
If it is open to the public, that includes this private operator.
Click to expand...
It is still private land. Running a commercial operation on someones private land without asking them for permission is stupid and rude. They can ask you to leave--and if they do--you must obey.
Tom-D said:
Having some one selling rides in a cool old aircraft would be an attraction to the public, and the more folks on the field means more business for Gastons.
Click to expand...
We have countless people giving rides in cool old aircraft at no cost because we're a bunch of friends. Someone showing up and charging and making it commercial--is a bad fit for the event.

Tom-D said:
I see this as a win win situation, good for the stearman guy, good for Gastons, and good for your event, if you choose go for a ride.
Click to expand...
Gastons is 100% full. A guy giving Stearman rides isn't going to do anything for them other than put them at risk if they endorse it.

Tom--I'm entitled to my opinion--as are you. Several folks, all of which have came for many years, have made it clear we don't want this to become commercial. Can we stop it? Nope. We're just giving our opinion since it was asked.
 
I can understand your point of view however lets get a few things straight.

First of all, as Jesse stated, it is OUR event not his event. This means that anyone, including the stearman guy, is welcome to come. However what many of us are trying to say is that the heart behind the event is "friends having fun with friends." This means that if someone is offered a ride, they're usually not required to pay although helping out with fuel is always a "friendly" thing to do. I applaud the guy for offering us rides in such a beautiful airplane and glad someone is sharing such wonderful history with the public, however the idea behind his operation is not the same as the idea behind ours.

As far as the Gaston's itself. I see this from two point of views. The attraction for the Stearman ride would indeed attract a lot of people for Gastons but it would be best if he mentioned it to the owner. How would you like it if someone just showed up on your grass strip selling a business without you knowing? If nothing else, its rude. So as much as I love stearmans and would love a ride in one, I think it would be inappropriate to sell rides. I'd rather fly with Kent, Jesse, or Spike who have came there for more than to sell airplane rides.
 
Last edited:
I'm not going, so take this with a grain of salt:

Bad idea. Who cares about the legality of it, its a bad idea. The ride giving wasn't so much about the ride, imho, is was more about sharing the skies with a new (or old) friend. I only had a Cherokee 180, so not many people were interested in taking rides, but I did get Troy up and let him fly, and it was more about hanging out than flying.

When I went up in the Cub, I gotta admit, that was awesome, even if it was just a ride, but had I had to pay for it, I would have felt kinda dirty....like my first cub experience had been marred by something.

So, again, I won't be there, but think about it before y'all do it. Its a really bad idea.
 
jesse said:
.

We have countless people giving rides in cool old aircraft at no cost because we're a bunch of friends. Someone showing up and charging and making it commercial--is a bad fit for the event.

I see the 2 events as separate things his selling rides has no effect on you or your event

Gastons is 100% full. A guy giving Stearman rides isn't going to do anything for them other than put them at risk if they endorse it.

I don't see why that effects you at all?

Tom--I'm entitled to my opinion--as are you. Several folks, all of which have came for many years, have made it clear we don't want this to become commercial. Can we stop it? Nope. We're just giving our opinion since it was asked.
Click to expand...

True.
 
Tom--our opinion was asked for-- I gave it. Take it as you wish. Truth be told any one of us will give a ride to anyone that walks up and asks without charging a dime. If someone was there charging it would interfere with the atmosphere. The physical space is limited. Considering how you've never been there--it is tough for you to understand.
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
Tom--our opinion was asked for-- I gave it. Take it as you wish. Truth be told any one of us will give a ride to anyone that walks up and asks without charging a dime. If someone was there charging it would interfere with the atmosphere. The physical space is limited. Considering how you've never been there--it is tough for you to understand.
Click to expand...

When I read the first post, I thought mine was too.

You see, I had intended to bring the 24 down, but I can not afford to give rides (it would be hard enough to rationalize the trip) and wouldn't have the heart to say no to rides. So I guess I'll stay home because I would charge for rides. and offend you.
 
Tom-D said:
When I read the first post, I thought mine was too.

You see, I had intended to bring the 24 down, but I can not afford to give rides (it would be hard enough to rationalize the trip) and wouldn't have the heart to say no to rides. So I guess I'll stay home because I would charge for rides. and offend you.
Click to expand...

no you wouldn't. there is a difference. coming down to be a part of the flyin and asking people to cover expenses for the rides you give is one thing. coming down for the specific reason to make a buck is another.
 
Going back to the regs (91.147), if he is a commercial pilot he can do 25nm radius sightseeing rides but needs to have a letter of authorization and needs to be on a drug testing program.

If he were a flight instructor doing this as a dual flight lesson, then the 25nm radius wouldn't apply, neither would the drug testing program, and he also would have to log your flight as dual given and endorse your logbook (dual received).

We started offering sightseeing flights at our flight school but had to go through the FAA authorization and drug testing rigamaroll. What's interesting is that we are authorized to conduct these flights anywhere in WI not just our home airport. The 25nm radius thing applies to wherever you took off from with your passenger, not where you came from with the airplane.

If I were to buy a ride I'd want to make sure the pilot and the operation are legal first.
 
Last edited:
No there's a lot of people that come to gastons and don't give rides too. It's okay, we're pilots, we understand that we're not rich. :) Don't be afraid to say no. You can blend in with the rest of us and tell tall tale aviation stories! ...thats the other half of the Gastons fun.
 
The B-24 is here this weekend, selling rides. I asked them if they could come to Gaston's, figuring they could use the money. They're thinking about it. $400 per head.
 
Tom-D said:
two questions

1. Does every thing going on at Gastons that weekend required to be a part of your event?

2 Is Gastons is a privately owned public use airport, Or are you required to get prior use permit before you land? or is it simply open to al who land there?

If it is open to the public, that includes this private operator.

Having some one selling rides in a cool old aircraft would be an attraction to the public, and the more folks on the field means more business for Gastons.

I see this as a win win situation, good for the stearman guy, good for Gastons, and good for your event, if you choose go for a ride.

This isn't like every one attending must pay for his partisipation.
Click to expand...

Tom, I have been seeing this like you have. I think we're in the minority though.

One year, Gaston's asked me if we would put on an air show to draw more people to the resort, so, at that time, they wanted more local people to come to the resort. They saw it as being beneficial. Perhaps it would bring more people in to eat at the restaurant or whatever.

I'm not promoting this person, but I don't see anything wrong with his coming. I'm trying to be open-minded. :)

Some people are assuming that this guy won't check with Jim Gaston first (Danny Gaston is gone) and they are assuming that he doesn't have all his other ducks in a row. I just found out that he has a few airplanes and gives instruction and sells rides, so it looks like his bases are covered. But, I seriously doubt that he will come now.

Tom-D said:
When I read the first post, I thought mine was too.

You see, I had intended to bring the 24 down, but I can not afford to give rides (it would be hard enough to rationalize the trip) and wouldn't have the heart to say no to rides. So I guess I'll stay home because I would charge for rides. and offend you.
Click to expand...

I hope you come. :) It would be great to finally get to meet you, and I know a LOT of other people want to meet you too. Not to mention get a chance to see your airplane and craftsmanship. :)
 
wabower said:
The B-24 is here this weekend, selling rides. I asked them if they could come to Gaston's, figuring they could use the money. They're thinking about it. $400 per head.
Click to expand...
Wayne, are you stirring the pot? ;)
 
tonycondon said:
no you wouldn't. there is a difference. coming down to be a part of the flyin and asking people to cover expenses for the rides you give is one thing. coming down for the specific reason to make a buck is another.
Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly with Tony. I don't give a lot of rides, but Tony got some PIC time in mine, and a few others have as well- on my CFI-MEI ticket without the rating.

But I can't afford to do it often.

wabower said:
The B-24 is here this weekend, selling rides. I asked them if they could come to Gaston's, figuring they could use the money. They're thinking about it. $400 per head.
Click to expand...
Now that would ruin some very nice grass.....but out of BPK, okay.....
 
Last edited:
The DC-3 is supposed to be at the Yak/CJ fly-in at Gaston's two weeks before our fly-in. I've been offered a ride...in several airplanes, including the DC-3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top