Status of new pilot training

J

John Reed

Guest
What is your opinion about flight training these days five or six years on from the economic crunch. Are the levels of students foreign and domestic increasing, decreasing? Have you noticed a difference at the locations you teach? Thanks.
 
I live in a small rural community nestled around of of aviation's largest aircraft manufacturers...CESSNA...I have to travel 45 miles away to take lesson's and to learn about flight. Something is wrong with that picture. I think the demand in the smaller communities for GA is falling or has fallen off. You would think it would have growth potential in the smaller areas because we have to travel so much further. I really enjoy my instructor and feel we get along great so I would not change that now necessarily but if there was a school closer, I would jump on that in a second because I could fly daily...Who knows what the future will bring.
 
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Im amazed when I talk with people who have no knowledge of flying...

They think you have to go to college to fly and that a plane costs 500,000$ Hell, even my Cherokee is worth 250,000 in their minds. And then I completely BLOW their mind when I reveal you can fly for less then the cost of a new truck. They're all like "huh, are you serious?" Then they start to talk about how dangerous it is......
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Im amazed when I talk with people who have no knowledge of flying...

They think you have to go to college to fly and that a plane costs 500,000$ Hell, even my Cherokee is worth 250,000 in their minds. And then I completely BLOW their mind when I reveal you can fly for less then the cost of a new truck. They're all like "huh, are you serious?" Then they start to talk about how dangerous it is......
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exactly! the dreaded dangerous talks come about quite often. People do not blink an eye when someone buys a motorcycle and cruises it at 100 MPH, but an airplane...WHOA!
 
muleywannabe said:
exactly! the dreaded dangerous talks come about quite often. People do not blink an eye when someone buys a motorcycle and cruises it at 100 MPH, but an airplane...WHOA!
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I try to explain to them using "exposure time" as my main argument.

When making a drive from DFW to San Antonio (My main drive for work) I usually encounter traffic (which is filled with IDIOTS) at DALLAS, AUSTIN & SAN ANTONIO. I have to deal with potentially thousands of other motorists and have to constantly be on the lookout for them and how they react.

Whereas if im flying I have minutes (compared to mere seconds) of reaction time. And my trip goes from 5+ hours to just under 2 hours, reducing my exposure to dangerous conditions and getting me away from the crazy drivers in big cities.

But like we all know, all they see are explosions and nose dives when something goes wrong in the sky.
 
I fly a lot at KFFZ. The amount of aircraft and training going on there would blow you away. It blows me away everytime I see it. Picture a good size parallel rnwy Class Delta with singles and twins in training school livery as far as the eye can see. Then add Commeritive Airforce, MD helicopter, charter ops and after all that add a massive GA population of everything else.

Then add KDVT,KIWA,KCHD, and KSDL all within 10-15 NM there is a lot of training happening.

You don't see training due to your locallity. That's my opinion.
 
I actually have 3 flight schools within 15 minutes of me and an additional 3 or 4 if I take that out to 45 minutes. I use the most local school due to cost and ease. I did ask the owner how many regular students they have (which they define as at least once per week lessons) and they said 15 to 20, with a few less frequent people. Mind you this is a small private school and ATP runs a commercial school locally.

I accept that GA is on about the safety level of riding a motorcycle from most things I read. While most people think motorcycles are somewhat dangerous, they think that small planes are deathtraps. You listen to them and any mechanical problem and the plane drops like a brick from the sky. I think it is purely based on the fact that fewer people fly, the fact most people have never been in a small plane, and that ANY plane problem or emergency makes national news. The number of people hurt in cars or motorcycles may get a passing mention on local news.
 
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Here's the problem.

A new Cessna does push half a million dollars. Especially a useful Cessna like a 182.

Lots of people, including some pilots, don't understand that properly maintained and repaired equipment can last a lot longer than 3 years.
 
MAKG1 said:
Here's the problem.

A new Cessna does push half a million dollars. Especially a useful Cessna like a 182.

Lots of people, including some pilots, don't understand that properly maintained and repaired equipment can last a lot longer than 3 years.
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Yea that does suck, that an average run of the mill 182 the is brand new costs more than 99.7% of the worlds best cars. Or a 5 bedroom 4,000sq ft house (depending on location). The price is just really out of proportion for what it is. After you reach the 150K mark your not even buying the plane, just the certification.... bleh.

It is what it is though. :(
 
It's $15,000 for training in my location. That is a bit steep for a beginner.
 
muleywannabe said:
I live in a small rural community nestled around of of aviation's largest aircraft manufacturers...CESSNA...I have to travel 45 miles away to take lesson's and to learn about flight. Something is wrong with that picture. I think the demand in the smaller communities for GA is falling or has fallen off. You would think it would have growth potential in the smaller areas because we have to travel so much further. I really enjoy my instructor and feel we get along great so I would not change that now necessarily but if there was a school closer, I would jump on that in a second because I could fly daily...Who knows what the future will bring.
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Training is going digital... you can find most of the ground work on the computer and DVD, and then go work out at the airport with flights.

But you have to do it military style... fly everyday, and fly with a purpose. None of this 1.0 once every 2 weeks kind of crap, it won't make the cut. If you want to fly, you have be current, proficient, and motivated. So learn the ground work on your own, and go spend a month or two in a place where you can learn to fly quickly.
 
...I know the 2 schools on my home field (KGTU) are very busy right now...not like that's a barometer for anything...but, hard to tell without being over there as a CFI what the completion rate is which is the more important statistic. I'm sure most schools lean to the light side when discussing the economics of getting a PPL and folks are maybe OK with it until they try flying 2-3 hours a week and realize that this is an expensive thing to pickup...and at that point there's no end in sight. I'm guessing most folks are like me...working professionals with lives and kids, etc... and have to make time for this. 2-3 hours of flying when you count in pre-flight, chit chatting with the CFI, going to the pumps after a lesson, debriefing and driving to/from the airport is most of a day when it's all said and done. And, you still have to go home and hit the books...

I don't think most people realize that getting a pilot's license isn't like getting a drivers license and end up quitting for that and financial reasons.

Based on what I've seen and heard from folks locally (Austin, TX area), business is pretty good.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I try to explain to them using "exposure time" as my main argument.

When making a drive from DFW to San Antonio (My main drive for work) I usually encounter traffic (which is filled with IDIOTS) at DALLAS, AUSTIN & SAN ANTONIO. I have to deal with potentially thousands of other motorists and have to constantly be on the lookout for them and how they react.

Whereas if im flying I have minutes (compared to mere seconds) of reaction time. And my trip goes from 5+ hours to just under 2 hours, reducing my exposure to dangerous conditions and getting me away from the crazy drivers in big cities.

But like we all know, all they see are explosions and nose dives when something goes wrong in the sky.
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I use something similar, but people that are freaked out are still going to be freaked out. It is amusing to me that most folks react to me being a pilot like I'm Evil Knievel and I have a death wish or something. Just ignorance.

That said, the rational in your comment is valid but the reality is that most car accidents are fender benders, etc... and I'd guesstimate that a very high percentage there are no injuries, let alone fatalities. It's a bit different in aviation obviously. You can't just pull over to the side of the road and I'd also guesstimate that a higher percentage of accidents that initiated in the air prove to be fatal just because of the fact that well, you're in the air and you have to come down whether you like it or not.

That said, I fly I 235 as well and am down in Austin...we should hook up sometime!
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Yea that does suck, that an average run of the mill 182 the is brand new costs more than 99.7% of the worlds best cars. Or a 5 bedroom 4,000sq ft house (depending on location). The price is just really out of proportion for what it is. After you reach the 150K mark your not even buying the plane, just the certification.... bleh.

It is what it is though. :(
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I know right. I sit here and look at my house (5,000 sq/ft custom home) and all the work and materials that went into it (took 8 months to build it) and then I look at an new Bonanza and it's 200k MORE than my house?

The most common material on the plane has to be the aluminum right? I know the avionics are expensive (and really, $9k for a Garmin 430W GPS? I still can't even wrap my head around that one...) in a new plane especially...but the cost of an airplane is just unbelievable to me. I know the regulations and certifications tie them down, increase the costs both from a design and testing perspective, etc... AND they obviously sell a whole hell of lot less of them than any major car maker so that increases the unit costs.

When I'm at the airport and tell people how much some of these single engine prop planes cost they lose their minds.
 
The airport where I train has a fixed wing school that appears to be hopping. It seems the pattern is always busy with folks doing Ts & Gs. Not so much for the helicopter school I'm attending. But I can understand it due to the cost. Mostly old guys like me with low debt and stable incomes.
 
My school could hire two more flight instructors, and we'd fill their schedules quickly. To me, business seems on the rise for GA airports in metro locations (I'm near Boston).
 
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