Starting with gliders... in Bavaria? & medical questions

[BavarianPilot]

Hi all,

long time lurker finally ready to ask your guys' & gals' expertise. Few tidbits about me:

• Long standing passion for anything with wings, or ability to take flight (RC Planes, quadcopters, Kiteboarding).
• 0.8 hours logged during an intro flight in 2012 in a PA-140, was a birthday present (happened during a warm summer day in the desert, very bumpy. Once I realized not to stare at the VSI it was pretty much over)
• Hadn't started PPL due to finances & priorities. How many times have you read that before?
• Now enough saved for PP-ASEL.
• Currently living in Bavaria, Germany.

Now my thoughts:
I'm ready to start the journey to becoming a pilot and just getting into the air. Career change to Pilot most likely isn't in the cards, as I'm already 31. married, no kids. Weekend warrior will have to do.
I've read that around 10 hours in gliders even if not flown in the US could count towards my FAA PP-ASEL. Is this correct? I've earmarked 2 weeks where I will go to a flight school located near the Bavarian Alps and start the EASA Sailplane license. My initial goal is to just try it out and get as far as I can in the 2 weeks. I'm hoping I will have no issues getting through solo and potentially even further in that time, let's see. I'm currently not planning on getting full glider certificate as our time here in Germany is limited, and I don't want a US Glider license which is dependent on keeping the EASA one. The endgoal is US PPL within next 2 years. Either knocking out an accelerated program while on vacation stateside or after we move back. Even if the time won't count towards my PP-ASEL I'm planning on giving gliders a Go. From further reading, this should help my stick and rudder skills and how many can say they flew gliders in the (near the) Alps?

My additional questions:

• I've got my medical scheduled for this Thursday, for an EASA medical which is required for Soloing a glider here. I have the option of getting my FAA medical (guessing 3rd class) for an additional $40 at the same time. After all the reading I'm planning on signing up for the MEDXPRESS System but telling the AME I want to know if I could get cleared for a medical if I chose to come back with the MEDXPRESS paperwork in the future. That way if something comes up which could fail me it's not written in stone. Does my plan have a flaw, is the plan? I guess I could just leave the FAA medical off, don't see a downside if I'm careful. I don't expect any issues. My reasoning for being careful is that I've read that a failed medical will never allow you to PIC commercially in any capacity. Who knows what the future holds, don't want to limit any possibilities.
• With the new rules in effect April 1st, I've read that I have to find a Flight Standards District Office, designated pilot examiner, airman certification representative associated with a pilot school, or certified flight instructor to apply for a Student Pilot Cert. Which would you recommend for someone living outside of the US? Does anyone have experience with the TSA clearance from abroad?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and of course thanks for any comments as well.

 

[vontresc]

First off, 10 hours of glider time will count towards your 40 of total time.

Second power time in Germany will be ridiculously expensive, which is why most people over there fly sailplanes off a winch. I am guessing you are going to Unterwössen which is an amazing location. Enjoy the glider flying, and it may even be something you want to pursue in addition to the glider flying.

I know that some of the Europeans have been getting FAA certs to bypass the stringent medical restrictions in EASA land. You may be able to fly medical free on an FAA student pilot cert if your club is willing to go that route. I really don't know if anything found on an EASA medical would be reported to the FAA. I would be careful if you know of any condition that would preclude you from getting a EASA medical. AFAIK you will also have to pass a Züp (German background check) at some point in the process.

 

[BillTIZ]

Look at US 14CFR 61.109(a) and it does specify 40hrs minimum training, but look to the sub parts that specific training times that must be recieved in an airplane, not glider. Yes glider time can be part of the 40 hrs as Vontresc stated.

The national average in the US for pilots completing their PP ASEL is around 65-75 hours. Some stick and rudder experience in gliders before starting airplane training could help reduce your total hours.

 

[BavarianPilot]

First off, 10 hours of glider time will count towards your 40 of total time.

Second power time in Germany will be ridiculously expensive, which is why most people over there fly sailplanes off a winch. I am guessing you are going to Unterwössen which is an amazing location. Enjoy the glider flying, and it may even be something you want to pursue in addition to the glider flying.

I know that some of the Europeans have been getting FAA certs to bypass the stringent medical restrictions in EASA land. You may be able to fly medical free on an FAA student pilot cert if your club is willing to go that route. I really don't know if anything found on an EASA medical would be reported to the FAA. I would be careful if you know of any condition that would preclude you from getting a EASA medical. AFAIK you will also have to pass a Züp (German background check) at some point in the process.

Good to hear about the 10 hours (if they come in handy great if not no huge loss). You are absolutely right about powered flying in Germany, and yes it'll be Unterwössen. Really excited for those 2 weeks .

After reading the new April 1st student pilot certificate rules i'm glad I can hopefully squeeze by according to old rules and get an old student pilot cert (paper) from the AME. Otherwise the whole situation with accelerated PPL will be tough if you have to wait 3 weeks from CFI verification of your english skills and whatever else they have to check to receiving your plastic student cert in the mail before solo....

 

[BavarianPilot]

Look at US 14CFR 61.109(a) and it does specify 40hrs minimum training, but look to the sub parts that specific training times that must be recieved in an airplane, not glider. Yes glider time can be part of the 40 hrs as Vontresc stated.

The national average in the US for pilots completing their PP ASEL is around 65-75 hours. Some stick and rudder experience in gliders before starting airplane training could help reduce your total hours.

Thanks for the info BillTIZ, i checked out the CFR, good to know.

 

[Velocity173]

Isn't there a German language test that goes with getting your license there? I checked into it when I was there but the language deal and the cost drove me away. If I would've stayed longer it would've worked out but I was rarely in country to begin with.

 

[AggieMike88]

The national average in the US for pilots completing their PP ASEL is around 65-75 hours.

That sounds a bit too much... My impressions were the average was more like 50-55 hrs.

 

[BavarianPilot]

Isn't there a German language test that goes with getting your license there? I checked into it when I was there but the language deal and the cost drove me away. If I would've stayed longer it would've worked out but I was rarely in country to begin with.

The whole flight training is in German. Written etc. for the certificate you need a "radio communications license" for which I believe you have to use English. Since I currently don't see a need for a full cert. I'm not planning on all the exams.

 

[vontresc]

BTW you suck Unterwoessen is on my bucket list of places to go soaring. Have fun and see if you can con one of the instructors to take you soaring into the mountains.

 

[BavarianPilot]

BTW you suck Unterwoessen is on my bucket list of places to go soaring. Have fun and see if you can con one of the instructors to take you soaring into the mountains.

Thanks. I've got my Medicals out of the way! EASA and FAA. Got my Student Pilot Cert, according to pre-April 1st rules. Nice to have it in hand. Let the gliding begin!

 

[vontresc]

Have fun and post pictures.

 

[Skip Miller]

The national average in the US for pilots completing their PP ASEL is around 65-75 hours. Some stick and rudder experience in gliders before starting airplane training could help reduce your total hours.

That sounds a bit too much... My impressions were the average was more like 50-55 hrs.

It took me 74 hours to get my PP-ASEL but that was flying only on weekend days with good weather. I was told at the time (1998) that the US national average was around 70. Izzat true? Dunno....

-Skip

 

[airdale]

Enjoy the glider time! I have 17 hours in gliders, gained after I got my Commercial rating, and I have always wished that I had those hours in gliders before I started on my PPL. It's pure stick and rudder flying without all the noise, all the busy panel gauges, and all the issues associated with power airplanes.

If you can get 10 hours credit or whatever, that's great. But even if you get no formal credit, I guarantee that your glider experience will shorten your PPL time and increase your skills over most PPLs.

 

[BavarianPilot]

Enjoy the glider time! I have 17 hours in gliders, gained after I got my Commercial rating, and I have always wished that I had those hours in gliders before I started on my PPL. It's pure stick and rudder flying without all the noise, all the busy panel gauges, and all the issues associated with power airplanes.

If you can get 10 hours credit or whatever, that's great. But even if you get no formal credit, I guarantee that your glider experience will shorten your PPL time and increase your skills over most PPLs.

Thanks Airdale! I agree with you even if I get 0 Credit I'm excited to go fly, and fly in Bavaria for that matter . I've always read that good rudder skills from sailplane or taildragger flying are very good to have.

 

[vontresc]

How did it go?

 

[BavarianPilot]

Hey @vontresc thanks for asking. I haven't gone yet. The fun begins April 18th. Now just need to get weather that's fly able most days . I know I probably won't get perfect weather every day. I'd still love to get good enough to solo of course in my 2 weeks down there.

I'll post a few pics once I'm down there.

Cheers

 

[vontresc]

Sadly no flying for me this week (spent all of it working on the wings on the libelle). How'd it go for you?

 

[BavarianPilot]

It went well . Pretty sweet location down there. We sadly didn't have much thermal activity so most flights were just in the pattern with sometimes 1-4 360's in the mix. Still an amazing experience, and I can't wait to go back soon. I made sure to experience as much as I could. I now have 32 Starts under my Belt, 30 Winch Starts, 1 Motorglider Flight, and 1 Aerotow. Drove the Winch cable retrieval vehicle, got to Start numerous planes (attach the winch cable, and hold wingtip,etc). You feel a bit like you are on an aircraft carrier with the planes getting launched in the air .

I got to fly with 3 different CFI's the motor glider flight was with one, then I spent 25+ Starts with one and on the last day got to fly with another. Very interesting to have the different people give you feedback. Glad I got to fly with both of them in the gliders. We flew ASK-13's. Being 6'4" made it extremely cozy in the front seat. Wish they had a larger K13. Is the ASK-21 better suited for large people?

Here are a few pics:

 

[vontresc]

Gorgeous shots. Glad you are having such a good time. I am only 5'10" (1,75m) so I've never really had an issue with fitting into a sailplane. I think the K21 is ok for tall pilots. You may have to pull out the seat back for some extra room. Just have your instructor let you sit in one to see what works. Glad to see they are still using the old K-13s. They are such nice flying airplanes. Just curious, they use an E-Winch at the school, right?

 

[BavarianPilot]

Gorgeous shots. Glad you are having such a good time. I am only 5'10" (1,75m) so I've never really had an issue with fitting into a sailplane. I think the K21 is ok for tall pilots. You may have to pull out the seat back for some extra room. Just have your instructor let you sit in one to see what works. Glad to see they are still using the old K-13s. They are such nice flying airplanes. Just curious, they use an E-Winch at the school, right?

Yea e winch with 4 winches. Heard from someone that they are run off solar power.

 

[vontresc]

So are you hooked now?

 

[BavarianPilot]

You could say that haha. I got my A Level Exams/Checks out of the way, so I can fly a K-8 alone in the pattern. After 4 hours of solo I can get trained on flying along the hill\cliffs directly next to the airport to get up easier when the conditions are right. It's a ton of fun! I would recommend everyone to give soaring a try. I was pleasantly surprised!