starting 0-435 after 2 yrs

AKBill

AKBill

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AKBill
One of my neighbors was injured in a construction accident 2yrs ago and is now confined to a wheel chair. The airport is paving the tie down area his plane is parked in and he was asked to move it. I volunteered to move it for him. I pulled the plugs cleaned them, could not get engine to start. Fuel is 2yrs old. So I pulled the plugs again thinking I flooded the engine. 4 of the 6 lower plugs were packed with what looked like carbon or rust. I then towed the plane to the new tie down spot and told him I would clean the plugs again today and try to start it for him. I also plan to drain some of the fuel out and put 5gal of fresh 110LL. Any ideas on what fouled plugs? My guess is rust. Any special thing I should try before trying to start engine again?
 
Well, you scraped the rust off the cylinder walls, hopefully you didn't break a ring. What you need to do now is blow as much of the rust out as you can with an air hose trying to blow it out the spark plug hole, so come up on TDC compression before you do, you can also finish up by pulling the prop through some and opening the exhaust valve.

I would soak the cylinders with PB Blaster and let it sit for a few hours before reassembling and trying to start. I also have good result with using Ospho (phosphoric acid, turns rust into magnetite) to soak rusty cylinders and rings before the PB-Blaster.
 
Henning said:
I also have good result with using Ospho (phosphoric acid, turns rust into magnetite) to soak rusty cylinders and rings
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand why you'd do this. Isn't magnetite harder than rust? Wouldn't you want to abrade away the (soft) rust, rather than chew up the rings scrubbing them over magnetite?
 
kyleb said:
Not sure I understand why you'd do this. Isn't magnetite harder than rust? Wouldn't you want to abrade away the (soft) rust, rather than chew up the rings scrubbing them over magnetite?
Click to expand...

Magnetite is smoother and finer grained, plus the acid etching eats most of it down so there is very little left to scrape. It like taking an 80grit surface and tuning it into a 320grit surface. Both of them are softer than the chrome rings which is where we are looking to prevent damage.
 
Starting and ground-running that engine will do more damage than good. It just introduces a fresh dose of water into the crankcase as a result of water vapor in the blowby gases that then condense in the case, mix with the oil and, in the presence of metal, form nasty acids that accelerate internal corrosion. Sulfuric, hydrochloric and nitric acids among them. Many good engines have been trashed this way.

After the ground run, take one of the rocker covers off and see the water in it.

Dan
 
When I've started stored engines that hadn't been pickled I squirted a little Mystery Oil in the top spark plug holes and hand rotated the prop to see if there was any resistance that was unusual. My engines started normally although with a puff of smoke. I wouldn't expect rust to be too bad in your case and whether it is or not, the damage is already done and starting it isn't going to tip the scales one way or the other. In that situation with a Lycoming engine I'd be very concerned with corrosion on the cam but there's nothing to save by not starting it. Maybe it fires up and runs for 10 years. It's hard to know. I'd be inclined to run it with some Mystery oil in the oil and once it's warmed to change the oil. Maybe use anti-rust and run it in before storing it again.
 
Henning said:
Well, you scraped the rust off the cylinder walls, hopefully you didn't break a ring. What you need to do now is blow as much of the rust out as you can with an air hose trying to blow it out the spark plug hole, so come up on TDC compression before you do, you can also finish up by pulling the prop through some and opening the exhaust valve.

I would soak the cylinders with PB Blaster and let it sit for a few hours before reassembling and trying to start. I also have good result with using Ospho (phosphoric acid, turns rust into magnetite) to soak rusty cylinders and rings before the PB-Blaster.
Click to expand...

How stupid would it be to pour acid into any engine?
 
AKBill said:
One of my neighbors was injured in a construction accident 2yrs ago and is now confined to a wheel chair. The airport is paving the tie down area his plane is parked in and he was asked to move it. I volunteered to move it for him. I pulled the plugs cleaned them, could not get engine to start. Fuel is 2yrs old. So I pulled the plugs again thinking I flooded the engine. 4 of the 6 lower plugs were packed with what looked like carbon or rust. I then towed the plane to the new tie down spot and told him I would clean the plugs again today and try to start it for him. I also plan to drain some of the fuel out and put 5gal of fresh 110LL. Any ideas on what fouled plugs? My guess is rust. Any special thing I should try before trying to start engine again?
Click to expand...

After 2 years, and no plan to fly it, why start it?
 
Tom-D said:
How stupid would it be to pour acid into any engine?
Click to expand...

Phosphoric acid is the proscribed treatment for surface rust in these conditions, unless of course they want to just go ahead and pull the jugs now. The real question is, why wouldn't I? :dunno: It's common procedure when unseizing engines in boats, and they typically go to sea successfully. His chances of already having broken a ring are pretty good though, so it may all be for naught anyway.
 
AKBill said:
One of my neighbors was injured in a construction accident 2yrs ago and is now confined to a wheel chair. The airport is paving the tie down area his plane is parked in and he was asked to move it. I volunteered to move it for him. I pulled the plugs cleaned them, could not get engine to start. Fuel is 2yrs old. So I pulled the plugs again thinking I flooded the engine. 4 of the 6 lower plugs were packed with what looked like carbon or rust. I then towed the plane to the new tie down spot and told him I would clean the plugs again today and try to start it for him. I also plan to drain some of the fuel out and put 5gal of fresh 110LL. Any ideas on what fouled plugs? My guess is rust. Any special thing I should try before trying to start engine again?
Click to expand...

By the way, I doubt the fuel is the problem. 2 year old gas should work fine for starting it up. It would be a good idea to pull the plugs and run the starter to get some oil pressure just as we do for a new overhaul. That'll give the cylinders some exercise before you put fire to them, too. Squirt some lube in there to help them. Clean the crud off the plugs, make sure the carb bowl has fuel in it, prime it if equipped, and it shouldn't hesitate too badly. Good luck. It sounds like a fun afternoon project.
 
Might be a good idea to sump it as well to make sure you're not pulling water from the tanks. A Baron stayed just a couple months on the ramp here and ended up sumping this out of 1 port on 1 wing. YMMV but he had trouble starting up for about 20 minutes.

LP9xOda.jpg
 
I'll repeat my question..

After 2 years, and no plan to fly it, why start it?
 
Tom-D said:
After 2 years, and no plan to fly it, why start it?
Click to expand...

We had to move to different tie down area. After two years in a wheel chair recovering for accident the fellow wants to start to get it ready to sell. Really Tom.......
 
Stewartb said:
By the way, I doubt the fuel is the problem. 2 year old gas should work fine for starting it up. It would be a good idea to pull the plugs and run the starter to get some oil pressure just as we do for a new overhaul. That'll give the cylinders some exercise before you put fire to them, too. Squirt some lube in there to help them. Clean the crud off the plugs, make sure the carb bowl has fuel in it, prime it if equipped, and it shouldn't hesitate too badly. Good luck. It sounds like a fun afternoon project.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sterwart, cleaned plugs and lubed the cylinders today.
 
overdrive148 said:
Might be a good idea to sump it as well to make sure you're not pulling water from the tanks. A Baron stayed just a couple months on the ramp here and ended up sumping this out of 1 port on 1 wing. YMMV but he had trouble starting up for about 20 minutes.

LP9xOda.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks did that
 
Henning said:
If you didn't break a ring, it should clean itself up well enough. The rust was grounding the plugs.
Click to expand...

Yah, it sure did. Pulled through by hand no problem, before we tried to start.
 
AKBill said:
We had to move to different tie down area. After two years in a wheel chair recovering for accident the fellow wants to start to get it ready to sell. Really Tom.......
Click to expand...

That's a really good reason, you had not said that prior.

Good luck with that, I hope your friend gets well soon.
 
AKBill said:
Yah, it sure did. Pulled through by hand no problem, before we tried to start.
Click to expand...

I'd wash the cylinders with a light oil such as WD 40, keep turning it over until what comes out of the bottom spark plug hole is clean of rust debris.

then start it.
 
Drain the carburetor (the pipe plug on the back) so that at least you are trying to start with somewhat fresh fuel, rather than the kerosene-like stuff that is now present in the float bowl.

But whatever, DON'T use any teflon tape on reinstallation. Use permatex or fuel lube etc.

This would be the one time to thoroughly preheat the oil so the cam etc gets some right away. You can crank until hell freezes over and the cam would still be dry on startup.
 
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