Starter motors and the engine overhaul

[Tom-D]

I am overhauling a 0-200 and the pictures below are of the starter that WAS installed.

Would you:
rebuild it?
Buy a new standard starter?
Buy a Skytech?

note the brushes are riveted on, and the armature brushes are hard wired to the field.

Armature is already been cut, and is now too small to cut again.

bearing are worn out.

The brushes can be replaced, ($8) as can the bearings ($.50)

the armature can be run as is by shining it up with 1500 grit paper.

Your the owner you tell me what you would do.

 

[Old Geek]

How hard is it to replace after the work is done? If it's an hour job, I'd go with the brushes/bearings/sandpaper overhaul. If it's a five hour job, I'd get a new or rebuilt one.

 

[denverpilot]

Rebuild or buy standard. The so-called "lightweight" starters are crap.

Most of these older ones were built like tanks and this one looks like it too. (Plenty of metal in those springs, no cheap chinese springs just barely big enough to do the job, etc), so I'd say rebuild this one but eventually it's going to die because of the armature wear.

I'd stick with the older style either way.

Built in a generation where a few extra pounds meant it was built to last. Not efficient, but had longevity.

I don't need a fussy race-car-technology starter on an airplane with a 1930's engine on it. Save it for the guys with a pit crew standing 100 yards away chomping at the bit to rebuild the whole car as soon as you are done driving it.

Plus, if I'm having to crank and crank, something's frakkin' wrong with the engine or carb anyway.

Anything that can throw the prop around three times should be enough to start an O-470. (I know, this is an O-200. Same deal.)

Those old starters work great. And a brand new one might be made real cheaply inside.

The above said, I'm no mechanic. What's your take, Tom?

 

[Ted]

Rebuild or buy standard. The so-called "lightweight" starters are crap.

True, but some of the SkyTec starters are actually nice improvements over the originals. I'm not familiar with the starter varieties they make for the O-200, but the SkyTec NL starters for the Lycomings are good units in my experience. I like the faster cranking speed, which aids in starting as well.

To answer Tom's question: depends on what I'm using the plane for, but I'd probably either have you rebuild it or else buy a new starter, depending on how good the new replacements available are.

 

[Geico266]

Buy a new Skytech. Lighter, reliable, better looking.

 

[Henning]

Depends on the overall picture. I would either rebuild or replace it with a Skytech and lose some far forward (fuel inefficient) weight. All depends on the priority. I always like to give options if there are multiple good options and I give my recommendation in light of what I know of their circumstance.

 

[Skylane81E]

Depending on my budget I rebuild that one or buy a new skytec, the new small TCM starters are really slick and no longer have shear pins. The two year warranty is good too and honored without question.

 

[Henning]

Depending on my budget I rebuild that one or buy a new skytec, the new small TCM starters are really slick and no longer have shear pins. The two year warranty is good too and honored without question.

Yep, those are really the two choices of value. If it's budget crunch time redo what you have for <$50 and be golden for a bunch of hours. If you want to use it as a justification to upgrade and shed some weight and have a small wad of cash burning a hole, go for it, it's a pretty good overall value.

Does the Skytech replace the T/C clutch/drive mechanism or just go behind it?

 

[Tom-D]

Yep, those are really the two choices of value. If it's budget crunch time redo what you have for <$50 and be golden for a bunch of hours. If you want to use it as a justification to upgrade and shed some weight and have a small wad of cash burning a hole, go for it, it's a pretty good overall value.

Does the Skytech replace the T/C clutch/drive mechanism or just go behind it?

They are a totally different theory and have no clutch. this is a key start 0-200, with a prawl clutch.

the sky tech is a bendix type.

 

[Skylane81E]

Only clutch in the skytec is a slipper to prevent kickback damage.

 

[Dan Thomas]

The Sky-Tecs for the Lycs are the best I've seen and weigh less than that old Prestolite. They will last the whole TBO even in flight training airplanes that get started pretty much every hour. The brushes don't need inspecting or changing in that time.

The Lamar and Kelly (Electrosystems) stuff is awful.

Dan

 

[Skylane81E]

Here's what I noticed with skytec,

First we kill a lot of starters, skytec and others

Only skytec is happy to hear from me and discover how to build a tougher starter.

They also never hesitate to replace any starter for two years from the date of manufacture. Even when I told them we had killed their new extended cranking 24v starter when a charter pilot refused to give up on a Navajo that had been left out in a snow storm and was packed solid with snow.

They wanted to see the starter so they replaced it.

 

[Tom-D]

The new Skytech, is on the way.

I follow the owners wishes.

I really do not like to rework these old starters that the brushes must be solder in.

The only place to get the brushes is NAPA, they are 1937 Chevy starters motors on a different mount plate.

 

[pericynthion]

Option 4 - remove the starter, hand-prop.

 

[Bob Noel]

The new Skytech, is on the way.

I follow the owners wishes.

I really do not like to rework these old starters that the brushes must be solder in.

The only place to get the brushes is NAPA, they are 1937 Chevy starters motors on a different mount plate.

Although I'm late to the thread, as an owner I have a tendency to buy new parts and would have probably opted for the lightweight starter in order to reduce empty weight.

 

[Tom-D]

Although I'm late to the thread, as an owner I have a tendency to buy new parts and would have probably opted for the lightweight starter in order to reduce empty weight.

I normally do the Skytec modification for the 0-300/C145A during overhaul, simply because you must modify the starter support and it's easier done when I can place the support in my lathe. but the last one I did it took 3 starters to find one with the front seal installed at the factory.

Talk about an oil leak, oil was running out the rear of the starter motor. I sent it back, they sent me another with out seal, I returned it, they sent me another one with a new seal installed backwards, I sent it back, they finally got it right. but the down time when the owner wanted to fly his new engine ?????

 

[dell30rb]

I flew a 150 that had the slipping starter problem. Only when cold. I know that friction modifiers in some oils can cause this. Which ones should be avoided? I asked the owner what his preference was, he said Aeroshell 100w.

 

[Dan Thomas]

I flew a 150 that had the slipping starter problem. Only when cold. I know that friction modifiers in some oils can cause this. Which ones should be avoided? I asked the owner what his preference was, he said Aeroshell 100w.

That slipping problem happens when the sprags get a little worn. They have a curved surface that is forced under great pressure against a shiny steel cylinder and have to grab that cylinder and force it to turn. Their contact area is a very thin line, to maximize the pressure per unit area. As they wear, they develop a concave surface that makes a much larger contact area, and they can't break through the oil film to grab the cylinder. Cold oil is more viscous and harder to break through.

It will only get worse as the wear continues. A Skytec has a mechanism that retracts the starter gear after start rather than leaving it engaged and having that sprag clutch to permit forward slippage. And those old clutches are REALLY expensive. I bet you could buy a new Skytec for the cost of the new clutch alone.

Dan

 

[nrpetersen]

Whatever - but don't "polish" the commutator with emery paper. That would only give a falsely shiney surface while it contaminates the copper with grit, & does nothing to true up the running surface of the commutator.

If there isn't enough to turn down to restore trueness, it is junk (or the lathe is junk). But there is no reason a very very slight lathe cut couldn't be tried to see what it takes to round it up.

Of course the mica between the bars should be undercut slightly too so the mica doesn't smear over the bars. I've done it with a ground thinned down hacksaw blade.

 

[Henning]

Whatever - but don't "polish" the commutator with emery paper. That would only give a falsely shiney surface while it contaminates the copper with grit, & does nothing to true up the running surface of the commutator.

If there isn't enough to turn down to restore trueness, it is junk (or the lathe is junk). But there is no reason a very very slight lathe cut couldn't be tried to see what it takes to round it up.

Of course the mica between the bars should be undercut slightly too so the mica doesn't smear over the bars. I've done it with a ground thinned down hacksaw blade.

Yep, I used to use a nice fine modeler's back saw until I got a Dremmel. If I'm just going to clean a commutator, I use a pencil eraser. Our old GM gen sets though I made a rack to bolt where the vent cover goes on that would hold a bar on a wormshaft and I could cut and true those in frame.

 

[kenjr]

Buy a new Skytech. Lighter, reliable, better looking.

We just put one on our O-540 replacing a rebuilt stock starter that had the Bendix go out. Wow. All I can say is you will likely agree, as we did, that it's some of the best money you've spent on your plane. They don't require a core charge so you can rebuild your existing one and sell it to buy down the cost of the SkyTech.

 

[BillTIZ]

We put the SkyTech on our O-540. 1500 hrs and only one problem replaced at about 500 hrs. Watch the cranking limits and no problems. SkyTech response is great! You can talk to the techs on the phone.

 

[Leo O'Farrell]

The new Skytech, is on the way.

I follow the owners wishes.

I really do not like to rework these old starters that the brushes must be solder in.

The only place to get the brushes is NAPA, they are 1937 Chevy starters motors on a different mount plate.

Hi Tom,

The one you rebuilt on my 0300A is working fine, it worked fine for the 10 years I owned the airplane (100 hours, one at time each year) and works nice now.

Your rebuild worked great, but I think it's a different type of starter. I really enjoy the starting process, pulling with my left hand while plunging the primer with my right, the motor kicks up fine.

Thanks.

LEO